fair puppy price ?

[Shotgun wg]

Never sold a pup. Try not to have anymore than I have to. My old man didn't believe in buying or selling dogs. We always got a pup free from family friends and returned the favor when the situation arose. To me if I was gonna buy or sell I figure $50 is fair enough on a weened pup . Older pup that's actually showing potential a lil higher. The last and only dog I sold was a walker dog about 8months old. She would bay a lil but something about her I didn't like. I couldn't put my finger on it. I sold her for $26. I payed $25 for her papers and added $1 to cover the stamp and envelope. The guy that bought her saw exactly what I saw. A month later she was baying real well. The guy asked if I wished I had kept her. I told him no. She bayed good but I still didn't like something about the dog. A mans price on his pups is fair as long as someone is willing to pay it.


Shotgun
Arkansas

[Scott]

Guess that's why I usually give pups away to my peeps instead of having them swipe their master card.

Nothing against folks selling pups. I support it actually .......just never understood the whole ..........its this price due to the costs of raising pups.   Nah.........its just the seller jacking the price for personal gain. And that is where I point the horse down a different trail.

Grown dogs or older pups ......warrant different circumstances .....due to the dogs working ability.  That I do believe has a value that should be considered in compensation.

your numbers differ because you don't add in the purchase price of the dam, stud fee or purchase price of stud, cost of health testing for sire and dam, cost of feeding dam, vet bills of dam, cost of working/proving dam, cost of your time for whelping and raising the litter, cost of vet checking pups, etc.

[Fixitlouie]

Different for me. Im not set up for pups so it cost alot more.
Feed 200.00
Kennel 300.00.
Late for work to clean kennel.  2000.00
Scoop poop 5000.00
Listen to wife saying it all my fault 10,000.00
Worming 200.00.
Corid. 40.00
Shots. 80.00
Time to take pictures 100.00
Cute little santa hat to send to buyers for Christmas 15.00 + 100.00 for the fustration that i had to put it on all the dam pups. Sold pups for 450.00
Total profit -12,000.00
I have payed alot for pups in the past.  To me a pup is only worth the person you get it from. The BEST pups are not sold but placed in hands of friends, family and the like

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Purchase price for Dam and Sire.......Why would I want to put that expense off in someone else? My choice to buy them.
Cost for health testing Sire and Dam.......Do they stay sick?
Cost for feeding Dam...........If your not raising pups from her does she eat for free?
Cost if vet bills from Dam........Again why are they always at the vet?
Cost of working /proving Dam........Is this a chore and inconvenience for you to do this?
Cost of whelping a litter .........Already defined above........Paying for your time? Again is this a chore for anyone?
Cost of vet checking pups ..........What's wrong with them?  If they are sick, weak, or deformed .....knock them in the head and start figuring out where it came from.

Sooooo basically we are back to around $16.50 a pup?

So how is $100 to $200 a pup not a fair asking price?  Again maybe I am throwed off! Haha

Good convo boys!

[charles]

If a person has to charge for the price of the parents, the raising of the litter, the feeding of the parents. Then it sound the person is in it for the money not the raising of a proper litter.
Where does charging for raising and whelping come into play?
Is the momma dog not raising and whelping?
Did she die after birth to where a person has to do all the feeding and care taking of the pups?
But Myles is correct in his math and ways of thinking and took me a while to come to a similar conclusion. But to each their own.

Purchase price for Dam and Sire.......Why would I want to put that expense off in someone else? My choice to buy them.
Cost for health testing Sire and Dam.......Do they stay sick?
Cost for feeding Dam...........If your not raising pups from her does she eat for free?
Cost if vet bills from Dam........Again why are they always at the vet?
Cost of working /proving Dam........Is this a chore and inconvenience for you to do this?
Cost of whelping a litter .........Already defined above........Paying for your time? Again is this a chore for anyone?
Cost of vet checking pups ..........What's wrong with them?  If they are sick, weak, or deformed .....knock them in the head and start figuring out where it came from.

Sooooo basically we are back to around $16.50 a pup?

So how is $100 to $200 a pup not a fair asking price?  Again maybe I am throwed off! Haha

Good convo boys!

Again, will hav to agree with ya.

[Judge peel]

Well every ones math is different don't make it right or wrong just different out look on what a fella thinks is fair. The price really don't matter if your willing to pay it but as most things sold it's only as good as the fella standing in front of ya. Just ask your self this how many did ya sale how many came back vs pups gave away that made a circle jerk only to be sold at some point. No right or wrong just different out looks

[oconee]

I never have been a good business man when it comes to dog dealing...back when I had my line of dogs I didn't sell any but gave a few away way south of me...and a few buddies got a few here and there for free...

I have sold a few good young dogs that were better than average that I didn't like for one reason or other...and sold them very reasonably...I never have put a value on the feed and care including kennel cleaning, training and socialization required to make a dog...

I just gave away a pretty good dog about 3 weeks ago that was in his prime...

If more people had this attitude there would be a lot more good dogs in the world.   This puppy selling thing is a VERY sore issue with me and I have stayed away from this topic as long as I could.   I got into Plotts over 4 years ago and my main objective was to build a line of Plotts I could hunt and breed around for MYSELF and my friends.   I started researching bloodlines and trying to find what sounded like would suit my needs.   If you were going to buy a well bred plott pup today the going price is $300-$500 and to a guy that's working for every penny that's a tough pill to swallow.   You add shipping from some of the eastern states where most of the big game bred plotts reside and its nothing for a plott pup to land in your yard costing you well over $500.     Now I will switch gears a little and talk about what is good for the breed and the dog world in general.   CULLING.  IMO we must cull the bad and breed the good  NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!    When you add this kind of money  for a pup into the equation it cannot help but to redirect ones intentions when it comes time to cull.   Its pretty hard for a working man to cull a yearling dog that he likely has close to $600-$1000 invested in just because he won't stay bayed by himself or he has no bottom and this cull gets kept around and before you know it the owners has talked himself into breeding him in hopes of getting better pups because its a lot more cost efficient than buying and raising another high dollar pup just to find out it could be a cull too.    The point I'm trying to make is that the high dollar puppy prices in any breed has an indirect influence on the culling practices of the buyers and thus has an indirect influence on the quality of the breed or line of dogs.

I have culled my fair share of these high dollars suckers and it sux but I want my dogs in the future to be what I want and I just feel that in the near future I will be able to make my own breeding and have 100% confidence in the breedings will produce a decent percentage of pups that will suit me.   Another thing I feel very strongly about is my reputation and what I put my name on.    I made a breeding a couple years ago (only breeding I have made before this year)  and gave one pup to a friend and traded the other two females to a young man that I though was a good young and up and coming hog hunter but he turned out to be a clown and ended up trading them off with my name on their papers.  Now there were only three pups and the male I gave to a friend was a nice dog that I didn't mind putting my name on but I had no ideal what these two females turned out to be so when I found out one had been culled and I had an opportunity to buy the other back I did.   I only owned the last female for a couple weeks and when my wife said " that was silly, buy a dog and cull it within two weeks" I just grinned and the truth is now I know full well that there are no dogs with my name on them that would embarrass me.    And that is invaluable to me.  I learned a lesson with that experience and now I will never sell a puppy to anyone but will place (for free) any extras with good hard hunters that I KNOW will cull it in a blink of an eye of its not to my standard.    

So long story short:  Fair Puppy price to me is about one 22 bullet.   Sell them if you want but remember you name is on them forever and there is NO WAY they will ALL make you proud.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Well that post definitely took some writing Oconee. Can tell from the depth what the subject means to you.

Must say.......I like your profit margins brotha! 

In the end. When haggling about expenses vs buying costs.

There will always be a car salesman line in the mix.
The salesman didn't make it
The salesman didn't paint it
The salesman didn't wash it
The salesman just got out of his chair and opened the door for ya.

But you can believe you as the buyer will be paying him for all the above.

[oconee]

I have personally seen several good lines of plotts diluted well below the point of mediocre buy breeding less than adequate females and males for the selling of puppies.   

[Georgia-Hawgs]

I didnt mean to start so much of a disagreement here. But i like to see everybodys opinions on these subjects. Thats why i asked. I to agree that the price of the pups is whats fair to the buyer. If a man dont like the price of the pup he absolutely does not have to pay it. Whether its 10$ or $10,000. Now on the other hand i think anywhere from free to 2 or $250 is a fair price on a pup. I am actually about to drive an hour and a half and pay 250 for a 10 week old pup right now. Now heres the other thing. I am not a "die hard" hog hunter like some of yall are. I am fairly new to it. Dont get me wrong now i absolutely love it and enjoy every second in the woods. But i dont have many places to go. On top of that i dont have many hogs in the area where i live and have permission for land. So whats a good dog to me might not be a good dog to some. Its easier for some people to cull a dog than it is others. For example: if you hunt where you know for a fact theres pigs and fresh sighn and the 15 month old dog aint wanting to do nothin. Or the other dogs are getting bayed or taking to a track and the dog in question wants to wrestle with your boots as your walking in them. Or whatever other circumstances you feel like exercising your culling practices. Have to take into consideration that when your hunting in thick pigs its easier to figure out and cull or keep a dog than it is when your taking a dog to the woods where there might be a hog and there might not . Like i said before . I charged 250$ for a litter of pups and i think its fair. I dont consider myself a breeder or a fella thats just in it for the money. And god knows i could sure use it. I dont charge 250 to try and make a quick buck, recoup money from my female dog, get money back from the stud fee, Pay for my kennels, rip folks off, or any of the other reasons some folks haves said 250 is to much. I charge it because in my opinion its a fair price. And i didnt twist anybodys arm or hold a gun to there head and make them buy anything i have. I also try to excercise the "buy back" option. I guess what im trying to say is different strokes for differnt folks. If you dont like it dont get it. Then all of us 250 dollar dog sellers will have to give away or sell for 10$ a piece. That will solve the issue right there .       

[Shotgun66]

Good topic. Appreciate and respect all opinions on the subject.
-
This topic is exactly why paying good $ for a proven finished dog is a solid investment in my opinion.

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Nah bud this isn't an argument. Just a debate with strong points of views  from a mixture of good folks.

Getting back to the root question that you posted.

What is a fair puppy price?

If $250 is your mark...by goodness stand by it brotha. Sure beats a crawfisher that swings with the tide.

Believe the root issue that sparks a heated debate on this topic has always been the crossroads of two opposite ends of the spectrum in the dog world.

Dogmen ........and....... Men that keep dogs.
Nothing wrong with being either.  But the worlds always collide at some point sparking heated debates.

Perty clear on how much it costs to raise a healthy pup to selling or giving away age.

Now the extra ........just plain ole overhead anyway you slice it.

That money will always be the basis of conflicting points of views. No problem.
The luxury taxes that seem to be readily accepted these days is what I don't agree with.

As mentioned above ....if I ever feel the need to justify charging others for my dogs health, feed or handling costs that will occur whether I sell dogs or not.......time to start mass producing them on the open market as lap dogs or get out.

Or maybe we could start utilizing the vets as a dog broker. Seems they are the ones raising pups for folks and running the prices to high! 

[Fixitlouie]

^^^^^ im a person that had dogs. Dogmen, however take years to become that. Can't be a dogman right out the box. Its a learning curve as in life. You pay more than you should untill.  My plumbing supplier is not home depot. ...but it was..

[Georgia-Hawgs]

Lol....i sold some of my pups to "pet homes" that just wanted a dog to run around the farm. And some to hunters who wanted to give them a shot on hogs. The ones that went to farm homes will never be bred. And the ones that went to hunting homes will "turn out" or be culled. My dogs are decent. But by some folks standards probably not worth a crap. That is something else that will always differ from person to person. But my dogs have found hogs before. For the few hogs that we have i am dang proud of those few. Some days i can take my dogs to the woods and i wouldnt take a million dollars for em. And some days i dont even want to bring them back home. If i had a place to hunt where i could steadily put my dogs in good sign i know for a fact that they would be much better dogs. But i dont. There for i may not be a "dog man". Just a person that owns a few pot lickers. But thats alright with me . I Enjoy doing the little bit that we do.  But on the other hand i have been thinking about making a cross with my catahoula and my wifes cocker spaniel and calling it a cockahoula. Im real excited about this cross. Should makes some jam up house dogs. After i get them weaned and jack up the price a couple hundred dollars for the time it takes me to walk out there and feed them and take pictures for craigslist i should have enough money to replace the ball joints in my truck and get a case of cold miller lites . Man i am chomping at the bit waiting on this joker to come in heat !!!       

[Reuben]

I believe that on average there are many hog hunters that use dogs and then there are a few dog men that hunt hogs with dogs...big difference in both...

just like folks that get into showing dogs, a few stay for the long haul but most only last on average of five years...

My observation is that quite a few folks who get into hunting with dogs tend to take breeding of dogs lightly...and quite a few believe they have dogs that are good enough for breeding when in fact they are not...I reckon some of this reasoning has to do with in-experience...that is why I say take the dog to the woods by itself and see if it will find and bay hogs...then stick until the hog is caught or stick for a reasonable amount of time...take into consideration the hunting experience of the dog, conditioning etc...etc...then look at the parents and grandparents...if you like what the research tells you then you not only have a dog that hunts but one that is breed worthy as well...that type of analysis applies to all working dogs including catch dogs...

at one time I bred Dobermans and then Airedales for hunting and did quite a bit of reading and talking to folks...I threw in the towel on the Airedales for hog dogs and as well for a few other stock breeds...but in the meantime I gained quite a bit of experience and a plan came together for me...I tried a few mt curs that didn't work for one reason or other and then I found the right ones...I was fairly young at the time but I was very hard nosed about the program...many hours of observations and testing here and there and I was producing a very high percentage of dogs I liked...my back yard was full of what I liked...but it cost quite of bit of labor, time, and money over the years...planning a breeding from a pair of dogs took hours of thinking, analyzing and picking apart all the reasons why or why not to breed those dogs...turning over the line to purify the gene pool costs money and lots of time...running the dogs to identify heart in each dog...swimming them to see who took to water and who were the powerful swimmers etc...etc...who had the best winding nose, trailing nose...who were the best locaters...who rolled out naturally...it was a labor of love...and so much fun...I was looking for NATURAL ABILITY FOR A BETTER HUNTING DOGS...BUT MORE IMPORTANCE ON DOGS THAT REPRODUCED MORE OF THE SAME... NATURAL ABILTY...THE CREAM RISES TO THE TOP...

crossbreeding and outbreeding usually is a setback in a good line of dogs...but sometimes it is necessary...but to do it on a regular basis does not make a good breeding program if we are serious about producing a good line of dogs...

it seems I got off the subject but I really didn't...I said all that because of what I am fixing to say...

Doing all of the above and have 5 or six generations of a well thought out breeding program and you give away a few pups here and there...and then you see how the pup is treated...like it was a mongrel that was bred luck of the draw...no appreciation for the breeding or even the hunt in that pup...but those folks are what dominate the dog scene...

good dogmen know a good dog when they see one...and they appreciate it even more when the breeding behind the pup is also great...

I have had dogs that I know I could turn out with anyone's dog and not look bad...but I have had one once in a lifetime dog and he was not for sale...that dog gave me more pleasure than money in my pocket could give me...five thousand dollars would be gone and I wouldn't even remember how it was spent so my dog was worth more to me back then than that...now if my son needed that money to complete college I would have done it for a reason of that magnitude...

so how do we put a value on pups from that type of program??? If I sold a pup for what I thought it was worth...most couldn't of afforded one...
I reckon recouping some of the money for feed, worming and a vaccine is understandable...

Would I breed a line like this again? No...because I am at the age when I have to prepare for the not so golden years...but I sure like getting in the middle of these discussions...back as a youngster there were no internet forums so I spent a lot of money buying magazines and books to read all about dogs because that is what dog folks do...but these forums are free and many people get to enjoy the dog topics without having to spend a lot of money to do so...



 

[Georgia-Hawgs]

Well said sir. And a very understandable opinion. And so are the rest of these one here.

[Goose87]

Extremely well said there Reuben....

[Judge peel]

All pups do not make dogs and all dogs ain't good and very few are awesome regardless of how there bred or there breed or who they came from.

[Reuben]

JP...quite a few folks think like you on that subject...I believe the same as you due to average breeding practices...but when done right I will have to disagree...

[Judge peel]

Ya I hear ya Ruben I think even with the best program above your own best average is rare. But that could be some one else's super star dog most of the best things in life are not overly planned they just happen. This is way off the puppy price lol I still say a good fair price is 3 to 500 I have had no problems with that but I don't breed much ether