I just don't understand.......

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

You're right. I'm just a silly ol' vet tech with a worthless degree and no common sense. What was I thinking, having an opinion that opposed the officer in this incident. How dare I.

My mistake.

I may not be a LEO but I do have a da*n brain and some pretty good common sense too. My opinion still doesn't change.
I'm entitled to my OPINION JUST as you are yours. I can express mine without belittling others who aren't on the same page.

[Reuben]

police officers are like any other profession...20% above average, 60% in the mid range and 20% below...I know hindsight is 20/20 but I am pretty cool in emergency situations and do my best thinking then...but these officers did not have a plan other than draw and shoot to kill...a screw driver is a deadly weapon with someone strong with intent to kill...but only at close range...seems to me one of the cops should of taken the lead and said I Taser and you back me up with the gun if he doesn't go down and he is coming at us...

I have known some mentally ill folks that the parents have had their hands tied because they could not commit their son or daughter because they are of legal age of 18 or older...the mentally challenged person can not make the right decision because of their mental illness...yet the parents can not make it for them even though they should...that law came about because a rich man in the late 1800's had his wife committed even though she was completely sane...so they created a law that has hurt many many folks...it would be nice to have that law changed...sometimes someone could be committed for the wrong reasons but the system if set up correctly could identify those situations and be fixed so that it won't happen...

in this case the mother called because her son was probably having a relapse and all she probably wanted was to have her son committed...it is heartbreaking to see the mother crying out in agony...what if it were your son or daughter???   

[rdjustham]

Pretty sure I prefaced that with I have the same degree.  Secondly I was only using the vet tech/leo reference to show how a view changes with a specialty.  I wouldn't second guess your line of work or tell you you murdered a dog during surgery.  It was an example.

As far as the common sense goes, I was pointing things out in the video you may or may not have noticed.  When you've walked up to as many doors as I have not knowing whats on the other side you take notice of those things.

You and everyone else are ABSOLUTELY entitled to your opinions and certainly no one can change them.  however speaking on behalf of the citizenry that risks its ass to protect you while you voice that opinion, I would appreciate it if you would please refrain from telling us how to do our jobs, and bashing us about something you have NO clue about.

Now if a man attacks you with whatever weapon he has, and you decide to give him flowers, stun him, shoot him in the leg etc. that too is your right.  The leos I know and work with, we have a motto.  I GO HOME!

 No disrespect meant, however your posts pretty much said those two officers (who were cleared of any wrong doing and the incident was determined a good shoot by the way) murdered that man.  Oh and did you know the video was released by the man's family as part of their federal rights violation lawsuit in an attempt to bring about another show of support like they did in furgeson?  

The family actually said he couldn't do much damage with that screw driver because "it was a small one like the ones used for computers and stuff".  

just food for thought.  But yes you are entitled to your opinion, and heres the kicker.  call 911 and we still come.

Ill get off my soap box now.

[charles]

rd, that is another reason why the federal police task force is being tried out, that fergeson bull crap. and now this shooting in discussion. how many yrs does it take for #2 headed people to get it together, I mean come on, 165 yrs and still no different, even with millions of $$$$ up for grabs. they want get publicized, try doing something with their lives that will have a positive impact on the world, not just their pocket book

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Myself and my weapon ARE my 911.
You did say you had the same degree, but then proceeded to tell me that it was worthless as tits on a boar hog, lol. Basically indicating that it was meaningless.
I was giving extra insight on my background, trying to make the point that I'm not just another "cop basher". I was expressing my disgust in this particular incident. I know a couple other LEO's on other forums and I know there's a strong brotherhood mentality in place. However, do you not recognize, that yourself and your fellow officers are indeed human behind that badge? Are you saying that officers can never make a poor judgement call? Are you saying poor judgement calls never happen?

As far as this particular incident goes, we just have to respectfully agree to disagree.

[rdjustham]

Charles I disagree with having a federal police force. to me that's nothing more than martial law.  I will say this.  I will say it very bluntly so there is no mistaking what im saying.

Ive been an officer for ten years.  in that ten years, ive been shot at twice, once by a man with an uzi in a small home, right after he murdered his brother.  Ya know, maybe all the bull spit was right, I probably should have tazered him while he was shootin at me...  Hmm what do you think about that one?  I mean they gave me a congressional medal for protecting his mother and my coworkers but hey whats that mean? Trial by social media is much more effective.

ive also been attacked once, 7 minutes with a "mentally ill person" who was self medicating as "mentally ill" people do.  Only he was using morphine.  I suffered a concussion, two black eyes and welts to my head, as well as being stabbed with my own badge, and not the needle that holds it to your shirt, as well as a whole list of other number 2.  

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but most of the commenters on this post have no f---king clue what its like to do this job, or live with what you have to see and deal with..  But ohhhhh can they Monday morning quarterback the hell out of it.

[rdjustham]

Fine how is this.  MY degree in criminal justice is WORTHLESS.. Better?  And yes cops make mistakes.  This WAS NOT ONE OF THEM.  Here lets try one more experiment.  NO offense intended, I promise.  This one will show the difference in peoples perceptions based on their life experience. Kinda like no two people see the same thing. 

I read this to a few coworkers:

Speaking for myself, I actually earned my degree in Criminal Justice because when I was younger, I aspired to be a Law Enforcement Officer.

 

There automatic response was, oh great a no it all that couldn't do the job.  I cant tell you how many curb side lawyers have their criminal justice degrees.

Then I read this:

Reason I am not a respectable LEO today is because of my unfortunate debilitating back problem.  Couldn't pass a physical.

Now I don't know you and i wont insinuate anything negative about you, however their immediate response was not a polite or nice one. 

The reason i mention this is it shows how people view thins differently based on life experiences.  Im happy you have the luxury to view thins as happy and full of nice people.  Im also happy you can be surprised and outraged when you see violence on the news.  bet you didn't know it but most cops are so used to violence and the negative in people that nothing surprises us  anymore.

[charles]

Rd, i whole heartedly agree with the police force, the begining of martial law and has no place in this country. Now, as for cqb with that uzi, 3 shots, 2 in the chest and 1 in the head for good messure. I would classify that uzi incident as no different than soldiers on the battle field, and been in that shoe before, having to supress the incoming rounds to protect myself, the pilots and fellow crew members and our 30 pax.

[Reuben]

there are a lot of good cops out there...and most probably would not have shot that man...if the job is making a cop so nervous that they want to shoot for any little reason then I think it is time for them to seek a different line of work...

[rdjustham]

One last question mrslousiana then im done with the subject.

You mention you and your weapon are 911, all things being equal, If someone attacked you with a weapon how dead would they  be?  

That being said though, I sincerely hope you are never put into that position.

[rdjustham]

reuben I hate to say it, but anyting less than 21 feet with a weapon is a gun day all day long.  Screw him.  We go home!

[charles]

reuben I hate to say it, but anyting less than 21 feet with a weapon is a gun day all day long.  Screw him.  We go home!

That 21 foot rule was what we were taught in the military. A person can cover 21 feet in less than 2sec and in those 2 sec, a person has to decide and react.

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Ugh. No where did I say that an officer SHOULDN'T defend themselves. Of COURSE if you have someone aiming a gun at you, you'd have no choice but to take them out, use deadly force. What I disagreed with here was that it wasn't a gun nor a knife/machete or something of the like. As someone else also mentioned, one of the officers could have tasered the guy and dropped him, and if for some reason taser didn't knock him on his arse immediately, and he was advancing  towards the officer to where he couldn't be taken down some other way, then by all means, go that route of deadly force.

Yes yes yes........I'm sure you do encounter some extreme piece of crap nutty drugged up uncooperative crazies. Part of the job is it not? The job that you CHOSE to do?

You don't have to have any special training to see something for what it is. I didn't go through the police academy, but I have two eyes and a pretty decent head on my shoulders, and I don't think I'm being outrageous here.

"If someone attacked me with a weapon, how dead would they be?"

Well, if I'm in a situation where I feel my life is legitimately in danger, and I was actually being attacked as you say, I'd shoot the sucker in the crotch, take his weapon, then call you guys to come pick him up. If it were a mental person holding a screwdriver, and I told him to back off, and he kept stepping towards me, I'd shoot him in the knee caps and render him immobile, then call you guys to come pick him up I suppose.

But in all seriousness, that's a vague question. So many circumstances would change they way said situation would be handled. Am in out in public? Am I on my private property? Am I an officer with or without back up?

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

And......you said you read portions of my post to some of your co workers.....fellow officers.....
Am I supposed to be surprised that they too totally disagreed with my opposition? I mean really?

Again you picked out about how I mentioned my degree. That was not brought up with the intent of me trying to prove I'm a "know it all" by any means. It was part of my explanation which lead up to my point that before anyone such as yourself got defensive immediately, I wanted to share that I am not just another "know it all cop basher." But it's very obvious that that went way over your head.

Glad you found my opinions intriguing enough to share with your coworkers. Even if it was just for mockery.

I just hope y'all remember, you guys are all human beings. No better than anyone else who doesn't wear a badge. Protect and serve, ENFORCE the law......not act as though you are above the law.

All in all, do I respect the job itself that Leo's do? Yes. I most certainly do.
But no one forces you to do that job, it is a choice.

I for one am glad that I can execute my personal opinion on something, without picking others apart who do not agree in attempt to render their thoughts and opinions null.

[charles]

mrsla, i don't know what the laws are in la, and more than likely don't know the full law here in texas, but going from what more than 10 police and sheriff deputies have told me. shooting and wounding them is setting yourself (speak in the their words, not directing the "yourself" towards you or anyone else) up for a civil law suit, in which in some instances, the criminal has won. again, their words, you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to stop, which means center mass and continue till all movement/threat has been eliminated. i was even told that by a co-worker last wk, who did 7yrs as a state trooper here in oregon, in which he was put into a tested situation with paint rounds, and the attacker (another trooper) had emptied his 6 shooter, and my co-worker gut shot him and stopped firing because he knew the guy was down, was basically an unarmed suspect, even though he had a gun, it was empty. the instructors ask him why he stopped shooting and he said, the guy was out of ammo, mortally wounded and posed no threat. the scenario was run again, but the attacker was given a glock and 2 extra mags with paint rounds. he fired, emptying 1 clip, was reloading and my co-worker proceeded to empty his clip into the suspect. in both scenarios, the threat was stopped, but both times was with fatal, or mortal wounds, and he was told, next time, don't stop firing till the threat is no more, even though he knew there was no more bullets in the revolver, his department policy was to stop "kill" the threat, not wound the threat. it opens the officer, department and in our case ourselves up for a civil law suit if the criminal lived.
MY opinion is, not to wound and call 911, but to STOP, call 911 and ask for a coroner to show up too. i too, like rd, wanna go home, not et my home sold out from under me to pay the medical bills and give the criminal my money bc i wounded him/her and they lived to cry about it. to each our own though.

[charles]

Rd, i whole heartedly agree with the police force, the begining of martial law and has no place in this country. Now, as for cqb with that uzi, 3 shots, 2 in the chest and 1 in the head for good messure. I would classify that uzi incident as no different than soldiers on the battle field, and been in that shoe before, having to supress the incoming rounds to protect myself, the pilots and fellow crew members and our 30 pax.

wait, what i meant it to read was, i whole heatedly agree that the federal police force is the beginning of martial law, NOT that i agree with the feds enacting and utilizing the force. 

[Judge peel]

I wasn't going to chime in but couldn't watch and not play any more. When I got out of the army I went to the police academy and was on the force. Second day on the job pull over a dwi offender. He gets crazy slaps my training officer so I snot locked him and drug his face across the black top I thought this was a good thing. Well it was good I got the fella off my training officer but I was told that I went to far with force. I figured right there this was not the job for me cuz I would hurt some one or get hurt my self. Could these matters ended with a better result yes but we are not that person and don't know the level of fear he faced. Do I agree with him shooting not really this is why they made pepper spray and taz ers but if the shooting is justified so be it

[Curcross1987]

So your telling me if a cop gets with in 21 feet I'm good to take him down with a shot to the face or is that only for police officers after the walk to his door you are a joke

[Hogsnatchers]

Chances are a cop standing 21st from you with a knife is not running at you with unknown intentions. That was a pretty poorly thought out response. If your walking down the street and a thug/unknown individual is coming at you from 21ft better hope your armed and can draw quick enough to shoot before your the one in the obituaries

[Reuben]

seems like there are a few in the system wearing the badge who think they are above the law...a license to kill...there are lots of good cops out there...the few that are looking for an excuse to kill need to be weeded out...