Dog shooter, help needed.

[cantexduck]

Need laws that protect our dogs. Guy is qouteing the depredtion law saying that you can shoot a dog that is running deer.

[TrueBlueLacys]

It falls under the non-livestock animal cruelty statute, http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stustx42_09.htm:

(b) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:
(2) without the owner's effective consent, kills, administers poison to, or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;

I believe I know the situation you're referring to, which is a bow hunter that saw hog dogs running near his feeder. But claiming that shooting those dogs is depredation control does not fly for several reason. Most importantly, it doesn't fit the exception of depredation control in the animal cruelty law. You have to put all three of these pieces together to get it:

(f) It is an exception to the application of this section that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and otherwise lawful:
(1) form of conduct occurring solely for the purpose of or in support of:
(B) wildlife management, wildlife or depredation control, or shooting preserve practices as regulated by state and federal law;

Shooting dogs is not a generally accepted or otherwise lawful depredation control activity. That part of the law has been interpreted to mean killing wild animals while hunting and trapping, not domestic animals interfering with hunting or trapping. According to the Health and Safety Code, http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/HS/htm/HS.822.htm, only dogs that are caught in the act of attacking livestock or domestic animals can be shot.

The precedence for this was set by Bueckner v. Hamel in 1994, http://www.animallaw.info/cases/caustx886sw2d368.htm. "Texas law allows persons to kill without liability dogs that are attacking domestic animals. However, the attack must be in progress, imminent, or recent. This defense does not apply to the killing of dogs that were chasing deer or non-domestic animals." This case is essentially identical to what is being proposed, except the hog dogs weren't even chasing deer, just running past a feeder.   

If they would like to test those interpretations, they should be prepared to face felony charges. According the Animal Legal and Historical Center, "Some cruel actions warrant harsher punishments even on the first conviction. For cruelty offenses involving the torture, killing, seriously injuring, poisoning, fighting, or tripping of an animal, a state jail felony may be imposed on the first conviction. If a defendant is convicted three times under these harsher penalties, he may be subject to a third degree felony sentence, which translates to imprisonment ranging from 2 to 10 years and a possible fine of up to $10,000." So, unless they want jail time, not to mention the much more likely scenario of opening themselves up to a civil suit, they should think before pulling the trigger.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

There is no mention of game animals (deer) in the law,  only livestock, domestic animals, or fowls.

Is there an actual incident or is this theoretical?

 
Sec. 822.013.  DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS.  (a)  A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1)  any person witnessing the attack; or

(2)  the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

(b)  A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

(c)  A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.

(d)  The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.

(e)  A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.



Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.033 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

[TrueBlueLacys]

This is a theoretical. Essentially the guy saw hog dogs on his property while sitting in the deer stand and wanted to know if he can shoot them next time. One guy said it qualify as depredation, which case law has proven it does not. I found additional definitions showing why depredation cannot be a defense to shooting a dog.

In Texas, "depredation means the loss of or damage to agricultural crops, livestock, poultry, wildlife, or personal property" http://law.onecle.com/texas/parks/71.001.00.html. No deer were killed, no deer were damaged, there weren't even deer present. So it is completely inapplicable.

More importantly, the legal definition of depredation only covers wildlife. In Texas, legally speaking, domestic animals cannot depredate. Texas Parks and Wildlife has outlined three instances in which depredation control is legal:
- Coyotes, if the coyotes are attacking, about to attack, or have recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowl.
- Depredating feral hogs, if a landowner (resident or non-resident) or landowner's agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner's land.
- Fur-bearing animals, if the hunter possesses a trapper's license or if the fur-bearing animals are causing depredation.

[catchrcall]

where did you see this?  can you tell us or set up a link?

[TrueBlueLacys]

The discussion is going on here: http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107755

No dogs have been shot. Yet. But seriously, if you want to see how irresponsible dog hunters are going to ruin it for everyone, just read what the bow hunters think of us. Some of it is crying because they didn't get a deer. But most of it is dog hunters who are either extremely rude or actually breaking the law.

Keep your dogs contained people! If they slip off chains, build kennels. If they jump out of kennels, put a roof on top. If you can't afford to do either, sell some dogs. Be responsible! When you are out hunting, get retrieval rights from neighboring properties and don't cross fence lines. Use a little common sense. And if you have a friend who is doing things, do our sport a favor and shape them up. If you don't, more dogs will get shot regardless of whether or not it is legal to do so.

[cantexduck]

Julie is 100% right. We have got to police our own members big time........... This is crazy. Didnt kow so many people thought that about dog hunters. Top of my head I can name three people on this board that make the rest of us look bad. Their are bad apple in every bunch but I think we need to somehow take it to the next level. We already are fighting for the right to hunt(with dogs) so it wont take much and it will end up like deer dogs........

[ETHHunters]

I read all the replies and not much bad talk on there pointed directly at hog hunters. Most of the talk was about dog owners in general. Alot of the guys on there seem to be level headed.

[catchrcall]

Savoy, Julie, Y'all are doing a good job on this.

[ETHHunters]

Cantexduck you did some nice damage control on the bow hunters forum.

[coach]

In some aspects you are correct but land is a valuable resource and everyday is getting broken up. Advocates of yesterday are gone today because they have realized that it is an uphill battle. I commend you for your fight but it will always be a struggle cause of smaller tracts of land and dogs trespassing will always be a major factor.

[cowcountryhogdogger]

Cantex thank you for taking our side and letting others know the consequences if they acted upon their thoughts.  This dogger was in the wrong but shooting the dogs isn't the answer.  Thank you again for meadiating on this situation.

[popper]

It is a felony for shooting hunting dogs as long as they are not chaseing live stock

[robbiew2208]

i work with a bunch of those piss hearted deer hunters all the time ,hearing about them shooting somebodys hog dogs or threating to, told them they might as well shoot a couple of sack broke cows as a deer they have fed in the same spot all year. i get the same answer every time that we should have read the posted signs .ive had cow and hog dog for a long time and have never been able to teach one to read much less a hog .the same S O B that shoots a stock dog is the same S O B THAT WHINES THAT THE HOGs TEAR UP HIS LITTLE 4O ACRE HAY MEADOW OR EATS HIS CORN HES PUT OUT FOR HIS DEER . how is it legal for him to soot my dog baying a feral hog when his only defense is to say that he might have been running a deer . deer are property of the state of texas if they think that the deer belong to them tell one of them to shoot one about the middle of feburary. sorry this was so long but this subject gets me fighting mad . DEER HUNTING WILL BE THE DOWN FALL OF THE CATTLE INDUSTRY

[charles]

 Ok i got a problem, local neighbors are letting/turning thier dogs loose and coming inot my yard and antaganising and nipping at my dogs on thier chains. I called the sheriff dept and the dispatcher siad the county didnt have a county animal control and that there wasnt anything i could do. Can anyone help me out in this issue?

[ETHHunters]

I would run them off a couple times and tell the owner. If it didnt stop I would take care of it myself and be quiet about it.

[dabutcher]

i would call the sheriff's office back and tell them the dogs are a threat to your families safety, and i'll bet they'll be out there.  just cause they don't have an animal control officer doesn't mean they don't have to deal with animal control problems.  if that gets you no where i'd contact the sheriff, and if that leads no where i'd contact a lawyer.

[charles]

 I dont know who owns the dogs and the dogs have been running the area for 6mths or so. If they come back when i get back to tx I will call the SO's again and try the legal means again. Thanks for the input guys.

[Nickjones]

There were a couple of boys I know that had three of there dogs shot by deer hunters on a lease  that the boys had permission to hunt. Not only that they cut the straps off there vest and collars and smashed there tracking collars.  Needless to say the boys now have money to buy new dogs and new equipment. U cant shot a dog unless it threatens your life of your livestock.

[Wmwendler]

Ok i got a problem, local neighbors are letting/turning thier dogs loose and coming inot my yard and antaganising and nipping at my dogs on thier chains. I called the sheriff dept and the dispatcher siad the county didnt have a county animal control and that there wasnt anything i could do. Can anyone help me out in this issue?

Ok......when I was a kid, a male dog from down the road was always hanging around and starting fights with our dogs.  The people who owned him had no concern of keeping him from roaming dispite visits telling them that he was a nuisance.  You could rock him and chase him all you want he might leave but he would always come back fairly often.  So one day dad came to me with a buch of aluminum cans tied together with hay twine and said tie this on that dogs tail.  The dog would not let my dad get close but would let me.... so I tied it to the dogs tail and dad said shoo dog.  Well that dog started running and the cans went to jingling so he tried to out run the cans but the faster he went the faster the cans went.  He thought the devil himself was behind him and he never came back around our house after that.  If you can catch them it might be worth a try.  Some might think that was a cruel thing to do but no harm was done to the dog, and it solved our problem without getting the law involved.

Waylon