Pup training question

[liefalwepon]

I've been advised to start a pup by leading it into a bay a dozen or so times and turning it in before hunting it on the ground so it knows what good game is and so it doesn't get wrecked.

I'm worried I'm teaching them to be too short range by doing this as opposed to letting it run with the other dogs

What are y'all's thoughts on this?


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[bignasty]

I think they are born long or short

[justincorbell]

Let him mature and when you think he is ready turn him to a couple bays, once he knows what he is doing and can hang with the big dogs start turnin him out with one or 2. He will figure it out.

[liefalwepon]

Thanks for the advice justin, that's what I was leaning towards


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[The Old Man]

It really doesn't matter, a real good one is very difficult to ruin and a sorry one just ain't gonna make a top dog no matter what you do. Just give them a ride to the woods, an opportunity to do what they are bred to do and discipline when they do something they aren't supposed to do.

[justincorbell]

^ I agree with the old man. A good dog is going to shine given the opportunity. Honestly when I start my young dogs I have them rolling pretty quick, the last litter I raised I showed them a shoat behind my jack russell at around 4months of age and let them bay their little heads off a couple times, after that I put em up til they could hang with the grown dogs and the rest is history, I hunt with 3 of them regularly (2 I own and 1 my buddy owns), at just shy of a year old the 3 of them combined have seen well over 100 hogs in the big woods and I am by no means saying that my puppies are some top of the line badass dogs by any means, just some good ol curr dogs bred best I could that have been given ample opportunity to hunt.

[Black Streak]

Only time I'd lead a dog to a bay would be a lead in catch dog.
    Before taking the pup to the woods on hunts you should have a handle on the dog, the dog should be stock broke and have interest in pigs.  You have shown the young dog a pig in a bay pen and it's done good.    No need in my opinion to lead it to the bays.  It will naturally go to the bayed dogs on its own.     A good way to start a young dog hunting is to let 1 young dog hunt in fresh sign with the experienced dogs.        2 young dogs on the ground at same time will likely take more attention of the pups off the hunt and older dogs and divert it more so back onto one another and none desired hunting actuvities.
     Example: 2 experienced young dogs on the ground.  1 jumps a rabbit or runs a deer.  The other sees and goes with and joins the other on the chase.  They are just gonna feed off one another and aren't gonna listen to you, at least not as well as only one young dog would have.    The two young dogs will not be paying as much attention to the older dogs and what they are doing and try to mimic them as they would if you just had 1 of them on the hunt with the older dogs.       
   Get them to fresh sign early while they are out hunting before the young inexperienced dog gets board or looses focused or starts following behind you.     After a couple times of hunting it close to fresh sign and the young dog does well, don't drop the dogs so close to pigs and fresh sign.     
    If your worried the young dog is gonna get wrecked at the bay, I'd the dog is a little young to be going.    Some people like to start their dogs hunting really early.  This stage for me is for everything else other than the actual hunts.

[liefalwepon]

What happened that made me question what I was doing wrong was, a young dog that when I would take him on off leash walks in the woods would range out, he didn't have much leash training so when I started taking him on hunts on a lead he was wanting to run with the other dogs, so I was snapping his leash to get him to be calm and walk beside me, there's not a ton of hogs where I hunt so it took me three months to get him on about ten hogs, at that point I let him run with the other dogs but instead of ranging out he would walk beside me most the time, oops!! So I figured I probably should have let him run with the dogs from the beginning or after turning him into a couple hogs


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[liefalwepon]

Anything you can think of doing to let him know it's ok to leave my side? He's only been off leash on a few hunts so far, the last time he took off on a hog track, which was good, might have been the back track, it was hard to tell. Hope he grows out of this bad habit I taught him


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[justincorbell]

Only thing you can do is simply stop walkin and completely ignore him, odds are eventually he will get bored and go find something to get into. Act like he doesnt exist, dont talk to or touch him. Oughta help over time

[Black Streak]

You can continue to work with the dog on a lead or just ignore the dog all together.   Your dog, do what you want.  For me however I work my dogs on a lead.  Short lead first then long lead.     I make them sit, come to me when I call them, ignore other dogs in the neighborhood and other distractions.   This starts with a short lead and progresses to a longer lead such as 30'      that way the dog realizes you have a long reach.  Physical control enforces and embeds psychological control.  I don't mean physical control as in beating the dog though.  Needs to be consistent and without much emotion and you need to be calm and relaxed when correcting an unwanted behavior.   Ignoring the dog does play a key role in the psychological role.  An alpha male ignores his subordinates  often times in the dog world.  He  doesn't slouch, act weak, or do much acknowledging either when he is asserting his athority.   I do all this with pups I'm bringing up.   That way you have a handle on them when you turn them loose.    There is much more to it than this but you get the point.     You can bring pups up like this or ignore them and turn them loose and hope for the best and then really get on to them when they go to trashing and stress out because you don't have much controle over the dog.            If the pup wanted to run with the dogs and go off hunting with them at first when you took it out on a hunt, no worries then.      The pup is just doing what he thinks you want him to do now.      Sound like the pups is gonna be an easy trainer for a good handle.   As the pup gets older it will go out hunting.     If I don't at have a good handle on a young dog the young dog doesn't go hunting and get to run loose.            As puppies I take them to the pastures and let them explore and learn but even then when they are called, they come.  At this stage in their life, they don't really contest authority much.  It's when they are adolescent or teenagers that they will start ignoring you.   That's a big no no and when they do this, they go back to the long lead and back to school which isn't in the pasture.  I walk my dog or dogs around town and around other dogs, people, scents, livestock, wildlife etc.  Once the problem is resolved and they see you as the uncontested and good competent leader, they go back to the woods and are turned loose.   I run shock collars in case I need to remind one that my reach can extend waaaay out there but I don't need to remind often 
   Good luck Leaf, I think he will be just fine with a little more age.  Just a puppy thing.

[Reuben]

What happened that made me question what I was doing wrong was, a young dog that when I would take him on off leash walks in the woods would range out, he didn't have much leash training so when I started taking him on hunts on a lead he was wanting to run with the other dogs, so I was snapping his leash to get him to be calm and walk beside me, there's not a ton of hogs where I hunt so it took me three months to get him on about ten hogs, at that point I let him run with the other dogs but instead of ranging out he would walk beside me most the time, oops!! So I figured I probably should have let him run with the dogs from the beginning or after turning him into a couple hogs


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more than likely that is your problem...keeping him on leash is a form of training...if you have a pig at home have him bay it a while for about 3 times in a week or so...then turn him out with the dogs...stop and ignore the pup and hopefully he will get bored and go...

same thing with the shock collar...turn him out the first time with a shock collar and he jumps and runs a deer....shock the pup and he might associate the shock with ranging into the woods...we as dog handlers need to think about these things...hope he turns out for you...

[liefalwepon]

Good input fellas, I appreciate it


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[liefalwepon]

One more question, I have a male cat that is doing well, he's about two and a half but still has some puppy behavior, he's also a bit alpha, when we are hunting he will be running with the other dogs and then he will run straight towards one usually a male head on and turn at the last second and let out a short bark kinda like he's playing but kinda like he's messing with them, I thought he would grow out of this, when he does it close to me I'll give him a little shock but not a strong one because we are hunting and trying to be quiet, so I was thinking of taking him on a walk with some other male dogs and when he does it shock the heck out of him, any suggestions?


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[liefalwepon]

One more question, I have a male cat that is doing well, he's about two and a half but still has some puppy behavior, he's also a bit alpha, when we are hunting he will be running with the other dogs and then he will run straight towards one usually a male head on and turn at the last second and let out a short bark kinda like he's playing but kinda like he's messing with them, I thought he would grow out of this, when he does it close to me I'll give him a little shock but not a strong one because we are hunting and trying to be quiet, so I was thinking of taking him on a walk with some other male dogs and when he does it shock the heck out of him, any suggestions?


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[liefalwepon]

^?


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[hoghunter71409]

In answering the first question.....I think there are several different options and every dog is different.  Some pups may need to be turned into a bay and some others wont.  Some pups turned into their first bay will go in and fall right in with the old dogs.  Some wont- I've seen many pups go to their first bay in the woods and come right back out.  I think a lot has to do with their confidence and expose before going to  bay.

I believe that the best option if for young pups- 4-6 months old to bay caged coons and hogs from outside a small pen.  This gives them some security in knowing what they are baring at or suppose to be barking at before they go to a bay.  I think the best things for pups in the woods is to have sore, tired and dirty feet.  By that I mean, don't keep them in a dog box.  Get them out, if they go with old dogs great, if not, that is okay to.  Let them go to bays and if they don't the first few times, that is okay too.

Some will have a better handle than others.  If they have a great handle cool- if not, they still get dirty feet at my house.  They coming out of the box whether they want to or not.  If they don't come when called, they get left and picked up later at the end of the day.

Everything for pups should be a learning experience and they wont learn much in a box or on a lead.

[justincorbell]

Let me make something clear as apparently my little simple straightforward answer wasn't suitable enough for some who like to go on and on and on answering questions that were not asked.

When I said ignore the dog I simply meant bring the dog to the woods and turn him loose, don't acknowledge him at all, let him be a dog, if he has the want to he will eventually leave and do his own thing. If you are the type that gets wound up and pissy when a puppy trashes this may not be for you. That is my simple answer to your question. I don't pretend to be some master dog man. I hunt with dogs because I love it, I truly do, I don't think there is anything better than watching a dog you raised make it happen. I don't expect my dogs to perform like robots, long as they act right and give it their all you wont see me complain or get bent out of shape hog or no hog. Remember this, 1) a trashy pup is a hunting pup and 2) this is supposed to be fun, when it is no longer fun its time to make a change! Happy huntin!

[justincorbell]

One more question, I have a male cat that is doing well, he's about two and a half but still has some puppy behavior, he's also a bit alpha, when we are hunting he will be running with the other dogs and then he will run straight towards one usually a male head on and turn at the last second and let out a short bark kinda like he's playing but kinda like he's messing with them, I thought he would grow out of this, when he does it close to me I'll give him a little shock but not a strong one because we are hunting and trying to be quiet, so I was thinking of taking him on a walk with some other male dogs and when he does it shock the heck out of him, any suggestions?


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As far as this goes I would get him and the other dog he is bumping and messing with in a controlled environment where both can be controlled so that you do not have a dog fight on your hands, let the problem dog do what he has been doing and turn the shock collar up to "master reset" as I like to call it then give him a lesson in manners he will never forget. Just make 100% sure that when you shock him he cannot get a hold of the other dog as he may think that the other dog hit him, if that happens you will have a fight on your hands. Dont be afraid to put a little boot to rear end and light him up good make, he should get the picture real quick that you are the alpha and you wont put up with it, make it crystal clear to him that you aint gonna allow it. Good luck with your dogs!

[Reuben]

Let me make something clear as apparently my little simple straightforward answer wasn't suitable enough for some who like to go on and on and on answering questions that were not asked.

When I said ignore the dog I simply meant bring the dog to the woods and turn him loose, don't acknowledge him at all, let him be a dog, if he has the want to he will eventually leave and do his own thing. If you are the type that gets wound up and pissy when a puppy trashes this may not be for you. That is my simple answer to your question. I don't pretend to be some master dog man. I hunt with dogs because I love it, I truly do, I don't think there is anything better than watching a dog you raised make it happen. I don't expect my dogs to perform like robots, long as they act right and give it their all you wont see me complain or get bent out of shape hog or no hog. Remember this, 1) a trashy pup is a hunting pup and 2) this is supposed to be fun, when it is no longer fun its time to make a change! Happy huntin!

I agree...