The Science of Stop

[Judge peel]

The first post on this thread I said short and rough is my style. This is my main style of hunting. You don't need a specialty dog to catch a hog. But I can see why people would choose to breed for a certain type of dog. That being said I think people put a lot of thought into this I do not. If u hunt with some one that u think ur dogs can out do ten times you might be disappointed at the outcome. Most people that have hunt for a good period know what works and don't. Dean we have had some good discussion about dogs. I am open to all forms of dogs fast slow cold nose or not if they work they work be happy and hunt


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[justincorbell]

This has been enlightening.........and entertaining

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[parker49]

I'd just like to know how the h3ll u start out in the middle of a field every time ..... what do you do if the hogs is near the woodline ?  friend of mine from granado is down we will hunt tom ...he said  it ain't perty when one of those sight dogs hits a fence .....he said  about everybody has went to night vision hunt'n ......oh and  as  my first post most folks now  use the garmin trainer to keep dogs on there property .....hey streak  no more country than you have  to hunt  one old curdog  hunter would clean that up in a few weeks ......

[Reuben]

because if you gonna tought about how to breed dogs then  show what  you've done ...if you can't its just talk ... I can show over  a 100 litter's of dogs from these dogs of mine ...and  show after 25 years  I have  bred  them perty true  to type ... as  I bred  through the years watching them my breedings changed I learned about the dogs ....you don't get that  talking about what  you think ..... your  thought process seems to be ahead  of your breedings ......you seem absolutely sure of the outcome ....doesn't happen that way ....  if you haven't figured out looks  in a line  is important  then you just ain't there yet ....

Parker in 25 years of breeding you line, you started with curs and ended with curs.     Your curs perform no better or do not better job than most everyone's best dog on here.   You describe your breeding of them the way a show breeder would there dogs, looks.  Probably because  from the dogs you started with, looks was about all you could change.   I mean what did you really change?  Did you turn a close range dog into a long range dog.   Did you turn a gritty dog in to a loose dog?      25 years worth of breeding dogs and the main thing you say about them is they look alike lol.      I'm proud for you and your pretty dogs, maybe you can get them registered and start showing them in the kennel clubs.
         You tout your 25 years worth of breeding as though it's some kinda thing you have to do to have good consistent dogs and have made out like I don't know what  I'm talking about cause I don't have 25 years of experience.  Yet you say you changed where you wanted to go with your dogs half way through and started changing what you was breeding for.       Sounds like to me you didn't listen and found out the hard way after so many years of breeding.                  
           Most of the people on this forum find that what dogs like mine do are in conflict with what they have been said can't be done or done long.      How you accomplish what these dogs do is by what you put into them.    People would see me describe what my dogs do and try to breed for it.   Most would breed grey to bull and then be convinced I was full of crap cause there fast cd can't do the things the kinda I run do or they all get killed.      There is lots of interest in the kinda dogs I run from people of this forum.  I visit with guys that are interested knowing more and what makes this possible.  I have guys reach out to me and talk about what they want to breed together to get dogs that can either do crop work or finder holder work.        Yeah they want a fast cd, I get that from the beginning as this is main premise for meeting me.    I ask them what do you really want to do with these dogs?    Hunt crops or finder holder work or just run an rcd with there pack of bay dogs to stop runners.       If it's the later I tell them I can't really help them because I believe this just gets rcd injured and eventually killed.   If it's finder holder work, we discuss finder holders, what their job is, there mentality, how to hunt them etc but you are not gonna have finder holders without really really knowing what you need and what breeds of dogs to breed from to get this.      Crop dogs isn't a tuff to breed for and can be more easily had on the first cross but again the quality of dog and your happiness and confedence in them depend on what you crossed to get this type of dog.        The people that reach out and contact me to discuss things before they do it are often glad they did because 1, I urged them to use something a bit different to get what thy want, 2 I tell them how to use the parent stock in the mean time and what to expect from a dog such as a stag, what to look for in a stag etc, 3 how to develop the future dogs, 4 how to hunt them and develop there own style, 5 dispelling the myths which are so ingrained in some people and wide spread.   I'll discuss why certain breeds are bad to cross to  and why they are the first that we'll intended people go for.                   Listening to wisdom and experience sure speeds up the process and the learning curve.        I listened to my mentors.  I got dogs from the first.  I had and used the kind of dogs I wanted before ever breeding for them.    I already hunted the way I do now before breeding a dog.     I consult with my mentors about their wisdom on various breeds and how the blood influences the dogs hunting style, holding style, physical abilities, and manners.       The people I consider mentors have years upon years of experience and there own wisdom but they too have there own people that they discuss things with in Australia who also make a living with these types of dogs and have crossed dogs for years and years and know what influences what.
        I didn't come by my knowledge from breeding dogs all my life.  I knew how I wanted to pig hunt and my intuition and research put me on the right track with the breeds of dogs to use to get what I wanted.   During my research before ever starting, I met my mentors I have today which drastically shorted my learning curve.     I have no need to breed my own dogs, I am part of something much bigger than myself that has been in place for many many years.     The wisdom I share with people here did not just come from my yard or from a friends, it has come from Australia, been proven here by breeding up the dogs we have access to here and now by integrating the Australian blood with our own.            I have seen everything which I share.  If not on my yard, on my mentors yards.   Before developing these types of dogs I run, time was spent in Australia developing first hand experience on the inside and outside of these dogs, hunting abilities and style, catching and holding ability and style, what breeds influence what, running the different cross bred dogs together to see the differences etc.  Then bring all that back to the states and applying it.    And still to this day continuing the relationship with the Aussie guys.      
       This is how I know so much.  This is how I'm no fool when it comes to breeding for what I want.   This is why I can recommend what dogs to cross for people looking for a very usable F1 cross.        
   I'm into catching pigs, not chasing them.  I don't want a yard full of dogs.    I wanted 1 out type dogs.   I wanted what most on this forum say can't be done.        I did my homework before I changed dogs.       There are people on this forum interested in the type of dogs I use.   There are people interested in not making the same mistakes you did Parker and breeding for something that didn't suit them in the beginning.  There are people here that want to catch pigs like me instead of run them like you.     There are people here that want 3 dogs on there yard instead of 30.     You know little about the type and style of dogs I run but act as if your an expert because you breed some curs that look alike lol.            

Many folks have spoken highly of the parker cur dogs...that is respectable in my book...

[T-Bob Parker]

I think my dogs are pretty successful, I think Bolens dogs are different from mine, but I believe they are quite successful, I think a lot of dogs that are completely different from mine are very successful, what I can't understand, is what is it about Australia that makes some Americans lose their damn minds and think there is no possible other way near as good as the way some foreigners showed them? Why can't "one out" guys ever admit that their "finder holders" are great for the environment they are used in, but it is also possible that there are other dogs, better for the environments they were created for?

I think my curs are better hog dogs than your finder holders, but that is only my opinion, it may or may not be accurate so what is the point of getting 4 pages worth of bent out of shape trying to prove the theoretical superiority of one or the other?  I garauntee that if we sight casted your dogs and mine to a sounder of hogs in an open field yours would be caught on a hog before mine got there, but what I can also say with some degree of certainty is at least a few of mine would leave your dog with the hog caught and go rally the sounder we just cut loose on so we could continue to catch the rest. Of course, they may leave the property line, so I guess that means mine must be inferior dogs... Lol

[Semmes]

I'm tryn stay off posting on boards cause I get myself into trouble and let my mouth outrun my ass and experience lot of times....hell, I'm first to admit I'm a drinker. Hehe

But I do read and check in on most days, sue me, ain't had a tv in four years and don't miss it lol

I've probably made enemies out of folks that I more'n likely would be friends with and vice versa and all pints inbetween.

I love a good debate and it's hard for me sometimes to not pull a trigger, even one that I wake up in morn and regret hahahaha but I take it as it comes and keep stumbling done the road in the path I choose.

But on this point...

I have met talked to and/or hunted with folks for going on a decade that have bought Parker dogs and either bred and owned yards full of em or crossed em into other dogs or just kept and worked a good one...

I have seen some I wouldn't own and also outstanding ones, like any breed of dog.

I think from the percentages (hard to quantify %'s in working dogs as there are never 100% absolutes consistently) of happy folks that have the dogs crossed or pure Larry's program is a success.

....I think the man has done a good job and like Rueben think it's respectable at the least.

Now I'm not a Parker coattail rider. I don't even own one and never have. I got one that is a 1/4 but she don't count cause she aint showed me enough yet and honestly I ain't given her a fair chance this year and she was free anyway. So I really got no stake in the game. I got dif stuff I'm doin. But I think Larry just proud of the uniformity of form he has seen in his dogs and locked in. And I also think form follows function and believe Larry himself and lot folks that bred his dogs off his yard culled and worked em on working principles as well...

But I have seen quite few good ones and def heard of gobs more from folks that really put in work.

Now by that I'm not down grading what dean says about his dogs...

I honestly don't know and admit I've never hunted that style or seen it personally besides vids. I have some doubts but also a pretty open mind and would live to see it happen one day esp on these thick pine farm cutovers and woods here in la. Is be the first to switch gears if I seen it cause we get outrun all the time lol

But I just wanted to put that out there...

Carry on

Lemme bow out before I embarrass myself now, cause hey I'm a drinker, and sometimes that clouds being much of a thinker, and I admit it hahahaha

[Black Streak]

I'd just like to know how the h3ll u start out in the middle of a field every time ..... what do you do if the hogs is near the woodline ?  friend of mine from granado is down we will hunt tom ...he said  it ain't perty when one of those sight dogs hits a fence .....he said  about everybody has went to night vision hunt'n ......oh and  as  my first post most folks now  use the garmin trainer to keep dogs on there property .....hey streak  no more country than you have  to hunt  one old curdog  hunter would clean that up in a few weeks ......

I don't start out in the middle of a feild Parker, the pigs do.         Often times the pigs are running before the dogs hit the ground,  often times they are not.    If they are the pigs half half a feild head start.        As far as your buddy saying it's pretty when sight hounds hit the fence, he been use to some super dumb dogs  if he has watched them hit fences the way your implying.       My dogs nor any other persons dogs I know have had any trouble at fences.        I had a dog break a tail once but that's it.      If the pigs get through, then I've never had an experienced dog not be able to get through except once.  He got through just not in time and pig made a good getaway.  That was right after a long run and decent hold time this summer then within minutes see another pig on the way to get truck.
    When pigs cross the fence if there is on, sometimes there isn't and get into the trees or brushy creek bottoms the pig is caught no problem.    Why would I have a problem catching where it's most commonly done?           These long hold times I refer to is not pigs caught in the open, it's pigs either found or run down in the brush that takes time to get through.      
    As far as a cur cleaning up what I hunt yes  your exactly  right .     One of the great things about running straight catch dogs and not curs is the lack of pressure the other pigs feel.   Often times the don't even know why a pig is stressed.      No dogs bark to give up the gig.      If you catch a pig or two from a group, often times in an hour they are based k in there feeding and you can catch another.         More pigs come in also.   Hunt with bay dogs and you put way more pressure on pigs and catch less before the pigs move out.   Sometimes you never run the pigs out of the feild on the first catch.      I'm sure your  dogs would alert pigs of the danger for miles around and push pigs off.           So yeah your exactly right, your curs would clear out  the pigs on what I hunt and then you would be left with nothing to hunt or only a pig few and far between.    Your right you just right for the wrong reasons

[Black Streak]

The first post on this thread I said short and rough is my style. This is my main style of hunting. You don't need a specialty dog to catch a hog. But I can see why people would choose to breed for a certain type of dog. That being said I think people put a lot of thought into this I do not. If u hunt with some one that u think ur dogs can out do ten times you might be disappointed at the outcome. Most people that have hunt for a good period know what works and don't. Dean we have had some good discussion about dogs. I am open to all forms of dogs fast slow cold nose or not if they work they work be happy and hunt


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Since your not even really getting what I'm eluding to, it's kinda pointless for me to carry on and try to make it understandable.    I've used every holistic approach and example I could think off to get the descussion onto pigs but if my examples are misunderstood, then taking it further and discussing pigs would be an even bigger obstacle to discuss in here

[parker49]

hey man i'll be the first too tell you in my opinion you can't breed a line of super dogs or I can't ....I can breed a good solid line of dogs that or so similar they  perty much all work but some is just gonna be better than other's ..... I do feel that with a good working line  you gonna get more of those  top dogs than scatter bred dogs produce ....  I;m almost 50 and I'm done with what I have  I have  pushed it far as I can I believe and  I'm almost 50 years  old now its just keep up  what I have and when that exception pops  up my program breeds around him ......  when I started I had a few yellow dogs  brindle few reds all colors in litter's  but when I got them bred down to looking alike and breeding around the better dogs I didn't get any better  dogs than the good  dogs  I just got more  of the better  dogs ......   hey steak  son if your dog got his tail hurt  he was  either running  in reverse  or the wrong way .... ...... dogs running full blast  run into all kinds  of mess ....I have heard  of  bird dogs  killing themselves ... an old friend  of mine that has  hunted  grain for year around Beeville hunted pointer bulldog crosses and  man they could fly and super ruff dogs ......















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[Goose87]

Black streak this is a sincere honest legitimate invite to bring your style of dogs down here to the southeastern parts of Louisiana and southwest ms so you can see with your own two eyes, if your capable of that, that your style of dog in not compatible everywhere. I've heard enough on these "finder/holders", since they are for more superior than any other style of dog I want you to bring the brigade and hunt them the way and style we hunt, casting into a wall of briars and going as far as needed to cut a track, or put on a track crossing the road from the night before and trail that hog up and "find it and hold it" until we make our way around there to them. Yes your style of dog may produce big numbers or results for YOU, but why talk down on someone because their style of dogs aren't the same style as yours. I make decent money and I'll bet a months wages that your style of dogs won't be squat in a pine cut over, ever since the first videos made their way across the ocean from Australia men have been trying the finder/holder dogs around here to no avail. Let this be an open invite so everyone can see that you've been offered a chance to showcase these showstoppers....


Ps. We never see the hogs first that we catch, no big crop land around here...

[Judge peel]

I guess it's above my head lol.


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[parker49]

 streak here's my catcher catcher ...... ........ my runner downers and that catcher catcher caught two this morning  ....

[parker49]

my finder runner downers ...I am inspecting the holes ....

[Reuben]

Black streak this is a sincere honest legitimate invite to bring your style of dogs down here to the southeastern parts of Louisiana and southwest ms so you can see with your own two eyes, if your capable of that, that your style of dog in not compatible everywhere. I've heard enough on these "finder/holders", since they are for more superior than any other style of dog I want you to bring the brigade and hunt them the way and style we hunt, casting into a wall of briars and going as far as needed to cut a track, or put on a track crossing the road from the night before and trail that hog up and "find it and hold it" until we make our way around there to them. Yes your style of dog may produce big numbers or results for YOU, but why talk down on someone because their style of dogs aren't the same style as yours. I make decent money and I'll bet a months wages that your style of dogs won't be squat in a pine cut over, ever since the first videos made their way across the ocean from Australia men have been trying the finder/holder dogs around here to no avail. Let this be an open invite so everyone can see that you've been offered a chance to showcase these showstoppers....


Ps. We never see the hogs first that we catch, no big crop land around here...

Goose87...I am not knocking blackstreaks dogs or even his mentors dogs...but I am willing to bet that the average finder holder will not trail a hog very far if at all and winding yes to a certain extend but I wouldn't spend any of my time hunting that type of dog in your country nor mine...now having a good cur dog or plott leading a couple of finder holders around I could go for that...

my mindset is that the days are coming and almost here for many of us to run some shorter ranged catch on sight type of dogs...

[hyan]

Black streak this is a sincere honest legitimate invite to bring your style of dogs down here to the southeastern parts of Louisiana and southwest ms so you can see with your own two eyes, if your capable of that, that your style of dog in not compatible everywhere. I've heard enough on these "finder/holders", since they are for more superior than any other style of dog I want you to bring the brigade and hunt them the way and style we hunt, casting into a wall of briars and going as far as needed to cut a track, or put on a track crossing the road from the night before and trail that hog up and "find it and hold it" until we make our way around there to them. Yes your style of dog may produce big numbers or results for YOU, but why talk down on someone because their style of dogs aren't the same style as yours. I make decent money and I'll bet a months wages that your style of dogs won't be squat in a pine cut over, ever since the first videos made their way across the ocean from Australia men have been trying the finder/holder dogs around here to no avail. Let this be an open invite so everyone can see that you've been offered a chance to showcase these showstoppers....


Ps. We never see the hogs first that we catch, no big crop land around here...

Goose87...I am not knocking blackstreaks dogs or even his mentors dogs...but I am willing to bet that the average finder holder will not trail a hog very far if at all and winding yes to a certain extend but I wouldn't spend any of my time hunting that type of dog in your country nor mine...now having a good cur dog or plott leading a couple of finder holders around I could go for that...

my mindset is that the days are coming and almost here for many of us to run some shorter ranged catch on sight type of dogs...

What is trail a hog very far? For me it was 300-600 yard loops over a ten mile walk n they did trail,find n hold hogs while I walked the 600 yards I do believe there are hard places to hunt here but these finder holder dogs can be breed to work in thick woods in thick sugar cane and on top of mountains

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[Goose87]

Black streak this is a sincere honest legitimate invite to bring your style of dogs down here to the southeastern parts of Louisiana and southwest ms so you can see with your own two eyes, if your capable of that, that your style of dog in not compatible everywhere. I've heard enough on these "finder/holders", since they are for more superior than any other style of dog I want you to bring the brigade and hunt them the way and style we hunt, casting into a wall of briars and going as far as needed to cut a track, or put on a track crossing the road from the night before and trail that hog up and "find it and hold it" until we make our way around there to them. Yes your style of dog may produce big numbers or results for YOU, but why talk down on someone because their style of dogs aren't the same style as yours. I make decent money and I'll bet a months wages that your style of dogs won't be squat in a pine cut over, ever since the first videos made their way across the ocean from Australia men have been trying the finder/holder dogs around here to no avail. Let this be an open invite so everyone can see that you've been offered a chance to showcase these showstoppers....


Ps. We never see the hogs first that we catch, no big crop land around here...

Goose87...I am not knocking blackstreaks dogs or even his mentors dogs...but I am willing to bet that the average finder holder will not trail a hog very far if at all and winding yes to a certain extend but I wouldn't spend any of my time hunting that type of dog in your country nor mine...now having a good cur dog or plott leading a couple of finder holders around I could go for that...

my mindset is that the days are coming and almost here for many of us to run some shorter ranged catch on sight type of dogs...

Not knocking the mans dogs either, he sounds like an intelligent individual who really knows his style of dogs, I'm sure they are very productive for him in his geographical area and others areas similar, but in an area that's extremely thick with a sparse hog population to begin with, your not going to be very productive. I can clean my pond out of bream in a days time with a small bait cast and a beetle spin, I'm not going to take that same set up and catch catfish on the Mississippi River.


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[Reuben]

Hyan...I agree with you...you can breed dogs to hunt deep and take a track...but my thought is that the percentage goes up on these scatter bred dogs that most the time won't hunt the way a well bred cur will...usually if there is one good ranging dog that will take a track then you can have a pack of hog hunting machines that will follow that trail dog...I have hunted with folks that have al kinds of mixed up dogs that catch many hogs...not a bad way to hunt at all if one is after numbers and not care much about breeding a pure and consistent line of dogs...

Kind of reminds me of a football team...takes all kinds to balance out the team...I have seen your island videos...I have seen the proof your style works well...

[parker49]

it don't take much to catch hogs ....knowing the dogs you have  is the key and put them where they do well .......  but ....... for some its having the best dog in the box ,,,and that's always the finder  weather short ,medium or long ranged .....

[Judge peel]

Parker that's the truth


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[hyan]

Hyan...I agree with you...you can breed dogs to hunt deep and take a track...but my thought is that the percentage goes up on these scatter bred dogs that most the time won't hunt the way a well bred cur will...usually if there is one good ranging dog that will take a track then you can have a pack of hog hunting machines that will follow that trail dog...I have hunted with folks that have al kinds of mixed up dogs that catch many hogs...not a bad way to hunt at all if one is after numbers and not care much about breeding a pure and consistent line of dogs...

Kind of reminds me of a football team...takes all kinds to balance out the team...I have seen your island videos...I have seen the proof your style works well...

I get what your saying we breed the type of breeds we wanted in a dog then took them and started line breeding my uncle had the line of our first bitch from the 80s then we added cat to it n that's all n just line breed from then on

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