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Goose87
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2016, 06:02:03 am » |
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Reason I started doing that is because of a buddy who is an awesome bass fisherman, no matter what time of year, location, or water conditions he catches fish, same way with deer, joking around a fire one night I asked him how he got so lucky and he then told me and even showed me a notebook he kept in his truck and he recorded every detail of the outing, so next time he went out he would flip through his notes and find a day that matched the present and would do the same things he had done on that day and eventually came up with a pattern of conditions and what lures to use, it was kind of an Ah Ha moment for me...
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The Old Man
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2016, 08:44:14 am » |
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Most all dogs have the same "ability" to smell or the same number of olfactory sensory receptors. The difference in what we call cold and hot nosed dogs lies in the amount of scent or "stimuli" required mentally to cause the dog to react or take the track, this is hardwired in the dog at birth but can be somewhat enhanced or impeded with training or environment. It is more easily observed with open trailing dogs, have you ever saw a dog (A) that would not "strike" a cold track but if another dog (B) did strike the track dog A would immediately put in and take the track away from dog B. Dog B opening on the track provided the added stimuli for dog A to react. Dog A could smell it all along it just wasn't enough stimuli for him to react to. Track speed is yet another mental ability not more nose power, some dogs have the innate ability to carry a track faster than others, ever see a bogged down mudholing dog? He has proven he could smell the track by opening or taking the track just doesn't have the mental ability to really go on with it. In the end cold or hot nosed dogs lies in the amount of stimuli required to create a response much like a set of balance scales and dogs actually run a track more with their brain than their nose and legs. Foot speed and track speed vary greatly.
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The Old Man
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2016, 08:48:06 am » |
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I don't believe in a 2hr, 4hr, or 10 hr track dog, since trailing conditions change so frequently, I have watched dogs take a 9 hr old track one day and on another day saw them struggle and or fail on a 1 hr track due to conditions, I cannot tell you what all the variations in conditions are that cause this but have observed it many occasions.
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Reuben
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2016, 07:10:11 pm » |
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Back in 1983 a professor invented some concoction, a liquid that he diluted and placed the different dilutions in separate containers...this mixture caused very young puppies to react instantly to the odor of the mixture...this test was performed before 2 weeks of age...he was supposed to patent the solution and market it but I don't think he ever did...the surprise from all the pups he tested was that all breeds tested about the same except that the English pointer reacted to the weaker solution...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2016, 06:01:26 am » |
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All that data is cool and it gives u a feel of being educated. But that don't help as much as u would think. The main thing is just knowing the dog u got
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parker49
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2016, 06:56:18 am » |
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you can breed for dogs that tend to be more straddle track and also breed dogs that tend to take colder sign .......but age and experience , intelligence of the dog and the desire to stay hooked makes all the difference in how good they are at it ...... there is so many factors that go into a dogs nose it would be hard to measure unless you just go by what they are born with and I'd say there is breeds that would have the edge just by genetic makeup ................
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Reuben
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2016, 06:30:33 pm » |
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All that data is cool and it gives u a feel of being educated. But that don't help as much as u would think. The main thing is just knowing the dog u got
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I'm just the type of guy who gets interested in something I GET INTERESTED, I want to know what, why, and how things work and what makes them tick. I have the weather channel app on my phone and it makes it easy to keep track of most of the stuff I mentioned above...
Rueben I wouldn't think moisture content in the nose itself would affect performance, reason I say that is look at dry ground desert dogs, they have exceptional noses without any moisture being present.
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Goose...I have thought of that as well...also the lower humidity and lower atmospheric pressure as well in the western mountains which will make the track to evaporate quicker than in my neck of the woods and the dogs nose will dry out quicker but I think as long as the dog is hydrated enough the dog will produce more moisture in the nose to compensate...again another theory...but I do not have any experience in those areas...but theoretical thinking is a good past time and many times we can reasonably come up with theories that can be close or right on... All that data is cool and it gives u a feel of being educated. But that don't help as much as u would think. The main thing is just knowing the dog u got
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judge...you could be right...but thinking outside the box is fun...you should try it some time...lol |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2016, 06:39:36 pm » |
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Ruben I do I run all these things thru my head at one time or another. But they make little difference to me as I see it no worth put all the effort in to it to me if it floats your boat good for you. As far as the box I do things way different then most and ain't set in any one belief don't think any one thing makes u or breaks you it's the body of work that defines you
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Reuben
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2016, 07:11:04 pm » |
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it's the body of work that defines you
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10-4 on that... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Cajun
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2016, 08:50:14 pm » |
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These are just some of my observations & opinions I have formed over the years. First of all, a cold nosed dog is a coldnose dog anywhere he is put down. Here in the south or the desert of Arizona. It really depends on your area & if you have plenty of game you might not need a good coldnose dog. If you track hunt, a cold nose dog is a must. some of my buddies in Fla. have to have a coldnose dog. They trackhunt & might run tracks up into the afternoon & when it is 90 degrees, you better have plenty of nose. Another thing that Bigo touched on are there are dogs that might be able to smell the same track but the way they process it is completely different. Dogs that just bog a track down & just cannot move it forward are useless. They can smell it & open on it, they just do not have the brains to move it forward. Give me a dog that can smell it, move it & get it jumped, that is a track dog. Then there are others that just find game. I do not know if it is just the hunt in them, nose or whatever but they always come up bayed somewhere and these are usually cur dogs. They have brains.
As far as rigging or winding, I do know a little about that because most of my dogs do rig. some are better then others. There is no correlation between coldnose dogs being better at winding then hot nose dogs. I have had plenty of what I call hot to coldnose dogs that rig out of the boat or truck & they will rig cold tracks or sign & I have had the opposite where I have had coldnose dogs only rig hot tracks or the hog itself. Basicly it all revolves on how a dog processes hog scent when they smell it. I've had cur dogs that never opened but you could tell when they smelled a hog by their body language. The longest distance I have had dogs rig, we were hunting the marsh with about 20 mph winds. Dogs blew up so I turned Bosco & Jack loose. They blew out of there not saying a word & went a little over 900 yards & caught a big sow in her bed.
I myself would rather have a coldnose dog & not need it then a hot nose dog that cannot trail out a big track I just found. That would drive me crazy. Just me tho & it all boils down to personal preference.
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Bayou Cajun Plotts
Happiness is a empty dogbox
Relentless pursuit
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Goose87
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« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2016, 09:16:40 pm » |
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All that data is cool and it gives u a feel of being educated. But that don't help as much as u would think. The main thing is just knowing the dog u got
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No need in feeling educated I know what I know, all you gotta do is find people who are consistently good at something no matter what it is and the one thing you'll find they have in common is the attention to detail, I leave it at that, and it plays a way bigger part than you think or want to think... We can all come to the conclusion that brains in a dog plays the most significant part of separating the bad from the good and the good from the great, you can have the best tools in the world but if you don't know how to use them then they're no good to you... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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Judge peel
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« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2016, 09:42:17 pm » |
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I wasn't saying u feel educated. Any info you take in is education. Some of this info u keep cuz you feel it important and u drop what u feel is not that's all buddy that wasn't a jab. I deal with very tight tolerances every day as a custom cabinet maker I can't tell u most detial is structure most people need to pay attention to the details so they don't mess up. I don't feel like that stuff is all that important when hog hunting that's all if I was flying a hot air balloon I would
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Reuben
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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2016, 10:24:03 pm » |
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we can all agree that genetics is a big player in what or how a dog will work...dog handling will and can affect on what type of track a dog will take...
an example of two different styles of how some dogs use their noses...and the dogs are basically the same type of dogs...
one handler unloads his dogs and just takes off on the wheeler and takes of and does not pay much attention to the dogs...the dogs tend to keep an eye on the handler and these dogs learn to take the hotter tracks...
the other handler rides a little slower and pays close attention to the dogs body language and stops and lets the dogs work as they want until they are satisfied and ready to move on or will work it out and jump or bay the hog...
the same dogs just worked in totally different styles...one set appears to be hotter nosed dogs and the other pack appears to be colder nosed...
there are dogs out there that have the best of both worlds...winding and trailing...
nowadays where I hunt just turn the dogs out and they will have one running in 5 or 10 minutes...I like the dogs having to work hard to find a hog...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Goose87
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2016, 05:03:50 pm » |
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I wasn't saying u feel educated. Any info you take in is education. Some of this info u keep cuz you feel it important and u drop what u feel is not that's all buddy that wasn't a jab. I deal with very tight tolerances every day as a custom cabinet maker I can't tell u most detial is structure most people need to pay attention to the details so they don't mess up. I don't feel like that stuff is all that important when hog hunting that's all if I was flying a hot air balloon I would
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No offense taking JP were all mostly gentlemen on here... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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Reuben
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2016, 06:11:09 pm » |
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we can all agree that genetics is a big player in what or how a dog will work...dog handling will and can affect on what type of track a dog will take...
an example of two different styles of how some dogs use their noses...and the dogs are basically the same type of dogs...
one handler unloads his dogs and just takes off on the wheeler and takes of and does not pay much attention to the dogs...the dogs tend to keep an eye on the handler and these dogs learn to take the hotter tracks...
the other handler rides a little slower and pays close attention to the dogs body language and stops and lets the dogs work as they want until they are satisfied and ready to move on or will work it out and jump or bay the hog...
the same dogs just worked in totally different styles...one set appears to be hotter nosed dogs and the other pack appears to be colder nosed...
there are dogs out there that have the best of both worlds...winding and trailing...
nowadays where I hunt just turn the dogs out and they will have one running in 5 or 10 minutes...I like the dogs having to work hard to find a hog...
Having said the above...genetically the dogs are the same from both packs...one handler wants to bring out the best in the dogs and to be thorough... The other handler does not see it as a priority to do so...I will leave that one as that... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2016, 06:00:34 pm » |
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nose on dogs...
this story is not about a dogs nose..but about a 300 pound boar hog...this happened when I was about 12 years old...one of my dads acquaintance caught a small shoat in Laredo, TX and he raised him in Edna, Texas...he lived along the old hi way 59 about 3 or so miles down from us...
there we no wild hogs in the Edna area at that time so when he told my dad about the wild shoat we had to go see him...he was spotted like a Poland China pig...
as a kid before school or in the summer before breakfast and heading to the field I would get up at the crack of dawn and go outside and look around for any game that was kind of far from the big hedges...far enough away that the dogs could catch before reaching the safety of the big rose hedges...
well this one time I saw a big big boar hog with big tusks walking around our pig pen...I thought great...fixing to have a ton of fun...i called my dogs and siced them on that big boar and immediately This hog went into the fighting mode and he sprang/lunged and swung that big head to my main running catch dog...not the kind we talk about here...just all around lurcher type...I instinctively knew he would kill my dogs so I called them off immediately...I then went and woke my dad up...my dogs were hell on wheels when the neighbotrs hog would get in our field...I had to call them off so as not to do too much damage but this wild hog was something I never knew a hog could be capable to be so agile...back then there used to be ads wild pigs for sale...these ads were in the bag of the outdoorlife and field and stream magazines...the sales pitch was that the deer hunters could have other game to hunt year round...back then it souded pretty good...lol
getting back to the story...
turned out our Duroc sow was in heat and he was wanting in real bad...my dad lets him in the pen and a few months later we had 9 or 10 piglets...
of course after a couple days the owner picks up the big boar...says the hog is somewhat tame but he doesn't trust him...
as I got a little older I used to wonder how in the world could this hog smell that sow for so far...at about 52 or so of age I had a lease back in Edna...so one day I rode out there and with my truck odometer I measured the exact distance as best I could...the old man died a few years ago and his house was bulldozed down for the new freeway that replaced old hiway 59 years ago in the early 1970's...and our old house was also tore down sometime in the 1990's so I had to guesstimate the distance...our driveway was still there and I am pretty sure about where the old mans house was located...
my estimation after deductions was close to 2.1 miles...
then a couple of days ago I saw someone that was looking to buy some property use the cursor on google maps to get measurements on the acreage...
so I thought about my old calculations with the odometer and wondered what google earth would calculate as the crow flies...turned out I was pretty close...google showed to be 2.07 miles as the crow flies...
The old man lived west from us and the wind had to of been blowing east to west...the hog got lucky crossing the busy hiway 59...
I have written about that hog on here before...thought I would bring it back up on account it is somewhat amazing to me...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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CHRIS H.
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2016, 09:20:48 pm » |
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Good stuff Ruben
If their noses work that great I wonder if a " dog smart hog "
Is smelling out another group of hogs to throw the dogs off onto or if they just know where that group is ?
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Judge peel
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2016, 09:44:03 pm » |
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Hogs nose is way better then the dogs u best bet they are tracking other hogs and as any heard animal runs to its numbers
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