Breeding Dogs Discussion

[Reuben]

ain't nobody got it figured out and probably wont .......  culling  doesn't further a  line  of dogs ......its  knowing the dogs  you have  inside  and out with several years  of  breeding and raising the same  dogs  you will get a feel  for  what  you need  to do  to further  what you want ...

I agree with you Larry...line breeding and inbreeding does not produce great dogs...it is the person or persons making the breeding's and decisions that ultimately make the difference one way or the other...
having an eye and feel for the dogs and knowing what a great dog is produces good to great dogs...

see the truth and not make excuses for the dogs...great dogs don't have bad days...some days better than others...yes...

a name for not seeing the truth is called kennel blindness...there are two extremes...one is that the dogs are perfect and don't need improvement...and those that are never satisfied even with great dogs and will even get rid of great dogs in pursuit of better and they could just as easily wind up with less...

[Reuben]

 
  A very famous breeder once told me bear dogs were the easiest working dogs to breed, I asked what do you mean, his response was that those with more guts than brains the bears kill, those that quit or don't finish races I kill that only leaves me the good ones to breed.

I prefer to breed and raise curs that can stop and hold a boar hog...that has been a big challenge...mother nature tends to help me now and then as you mentioned about that bear hunter...
hunting to hard in the hot summer can cull a dog...to gritty of a dog can cull the dog...fighting a hog and trying to kill it can over heat the dog and that dog can die because of it...I now cheat mother nature a little with running vest and the alpha 100...I will breed dogs that stop hog as best as possible...at times these dogs can be bay busters but gritty dogs are the type I prefer...

[parker49]

well good line breeding and inbreeding should result  in more consistancy of what  you got .....but culling and breeding is different ...you cull as a hunter  you select as a breeder .....there's a difference ..... as a hunter or user  of working dogs you cull to keep only the working animals to use ... thats not a sure fire way to select the best  to breed with ....how  many culls have  changed hands  to become later  a  top  dog so cullings not bad  but not necessarly the best breeding practice ....now  this is just  my  opinion ......i select from years  of  having the same  dogs and breeding and watching what the litters  do and  what so called culls i have  bought back have  done ....my 2  boys  will probably never  be able  to breed my dogs  like i have just because i created them and  i know em ......

[Reuben]

"Thinking Outside the Box"...

Over Time...


One day it will be common practice to feed, hunt the gyp on purpose to produce better pups...there will be a science for doing these thing to change/modify the genetic make-up to include the in our hunting dogs...

 I recorded a Nova Show (documentary) about lead in water “POISONED WATER”, it was about water issues in the city of Flint, Michigan…
They were discussing how lead poisoning affected children to include babies in the womb…the scientists say that lead goes where calcium goes in our bodies and they also said an unborn child will be born with the lead in their system because it was transported from mom to fetus…lead will replace some of the calcium where calcium is supposed to be concentrated and one of these places is between neurons which are involved with the communications system of the nervous system and this includes the brain…the lead disrupts this function especially in young children with developing brains…Calcium is also vital in brain cell health and is needed in maintaining healthy cells and for cells to produce more cells for growth…
The average IQ in children of Flint, Michigan was tested to be 86 and the average should be 100…
As already mentioned the science research indicates that the pregnant moms fetus when needing calcium for fetus development will furnish the fetus with the needed calcium and since the lead tends to congregate where the calcium is located, then the fetus can get lead poisoning through this process as well…the brain that has been exposed to high levels of lead in a child will have a smaller brain than that of a child who has not been exposed to high levels of lead…there are many different studies about the mother and her unborn child about other conditions good and bad, and if we are to learn more about these things…then it is possible to breed better dogs and raise children with a head start in life…

see you tube video below and you can visualize more of what is coming one day...breeding to a higher level...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqG5TagD0uU

the video...in reality this is nothing new...it is a pert of evolution that has probably been here since the beginning of time...the only difference is that some scientist are discovering a better understanding as to how things can change in living things...as the public (people) begins to understand then individuals or companies can use this knowledge to their advantage once they understand...does it make a difference? maybe yes and maybe no...I choose to believe yes...

a short story that is an example of raising the level of understanding in things...

at work in our safety meeting, especially in the hot months the safety folks talk about heat stress and to stay hydrated...after I developed a few theories on dehydration I asked the safety man why I should stay hydrated and he said because you don't want to over heat...

I felt like my interest and the unborn pup/child went hand in hand with dehydration so I did some research and it made sense to me on what I rad and connected the two as I read...

The brain, major organs including the heart, lungs and blood are made up of over 80 percent water...even our bones are made up of 30 percent water...we are made up roughly of 65 percent water...digesting our food to extract the nutrients takes water for the digestion system to work optimally...our blood circulation works best when hydrated properly...our blood carries the oxygen and nutrients to our
cells throughout our bodies including the brain...this keeps us alert and focused to better do our jobs...this focus and alertness will in itself help us to minimize accidents to ourselves or to our coworkers...

so when the blood circulation slows down our blood pressure goes up, our cells receive less nutrients and we can lose our alertness...of course there are many other things that happen because of it...

after the meeting a few guys came and said they never thought of this before but it made perfect sense as to why we really should stay hydrated...

I said all this just to try and make my point...most of the time we have one common level of understanding for many many years without really understanding the higher level even though it has always been there...

[Judge peel]

Kennel blindness good stuff


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[parker49]

who sets the standard for a person to have  kennel blindness ?  the person buying the feed is all that matters ...... the only way a person could have  kennel blindness  is for  instance they are breeding rat terriers  too try and produce saint benards ......talk is talk ..... instead of talking about kennel blindness it should be  don't tell me how to do it show me  what you've done ..... hahaaha  hey i mean no harm but  i get fuzzed sometimes ..... 

[Goose87]

ain't nobody got it figured out and probably wont .......  culling  doesn't further a  line  of dogs ......its  knowing the dogs  you have  inside  and out with several years  of  breeding and raising the same  dogs  you will get a feel  for  what  you need  to do  to further  what you want ...

Preach brother Parker preach...


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[Goose87]

"Thinking Outside the Box"...

Over Time...


One day it will be common practice to feed, hunt the gyp on purpose to produce better pups...there will be a science for doing these thing to change/modify the genetic make-up to include the in our hunting dogs...

 I recorded a Nova Show (documentary) about lead in water “POISONED WATER”, it was about water issues in the city of Flint, Michigan…
They were discussing how lead poisoning affected children to include babies in the womb…the scientists say that lead goes where calcium goes in our bodies and they also said an unborn child will be born with the lead in their system because it was transported from mom to fetus…lead will replace some of the calcium where calcium is supposed to be concentrated and one of these places is between neurons which are involved with the communications system of the nervous system and this includes the brain…the lead disrupts this function especially in young children with developing brains…Calcium is also vital in brain cell health and is needed in maintaining healthy cells and for cells to produce more cells for growth…
The average IQ in children of Flint, Michigan was tested to be 86 and the average should be 100…
As already mentioned the science research indicates that the pregnant moms fetus when needing calcium for fetus development will furnish the fetus with the needed calcium and since the lead tends to congregate where the calcium is located, then the fetus can get lead poisoning through this process as well…the brain that has been exposed to high levels of lead in a child will have a smaller brain than that of a child who has not been exposed to high levels of lead…there are many different studies about the mother and her unborn child about other conditions good and bad, and if we are to learn more about these things…then it is possible to breed better dogs and raise children with a head start in life…

see you tube video below and you can visualize more of what is coming one day...breeding to a higher level...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqG5TagD0uU

the video...in reality this is nothing new...it is a pert of evolution that has probably been here since the beginning of time...the only difference is that some scientist are discovering a better understanding as to how things can change in living things...as the public (people) begins to understand then individuals or companies can use this knowledge to their advantage once they understand...does it make a difference? maybe yes and maybe no...I choose to believe yes...

a short story that is an example of raising the level of understanding in things...

at work in our safety meeting, especially in the hot months the safety folks talk about heat stress and to stay hydrated...after I developed a few theories on dehydration I asked the safety man why I should stay hydrated and he said because you don't want to over heat...

I felt like my interest and the unborn pup/child went hand in hand with dehydration so I did some research and it made sense to me on what I rad and connected the two as I read...

The brain, major organs including the heart, lungs and blood are made up of over 80 percent water...even our bones are made up of 30 percent water...we are made up roughly of 65 percent water...digesting our food to extract the nutrients takes water for the digestion system to work optimally...our blood circulation works best when hydrated properly...our blood carries the oxygen and nutrients to our
cells throughout our bodies including the brain...this keeps us alert and focused to better do our jobs...this focus and alertness will in itself help us to minimize accidents to ourselves or to our coworkers...

so when the blood circulation slows down our blood pressure goes up, our cells receive less nutrients and we can lose our alertness...of course there are many other things that happen because of it...

after the meeting a few guys came and said they never thought of this before but it made perfect sense as to why we really should stay hydrated...

I said all this just to try and make my point...most of the time we have one common level of understanding for many many years without really understanding the higher level even though it has always been there...

Rueben again don’t take this wrong way or in a negative context, this is the angle that  I’m seeing things based upon your analogies and I’m having a difficult time seeing any correlation between what most folks learn in middle school health and physical education classes pertaining to the importance of water and hydration and our bodies and your theory on epigenetics and how outside influences have an impact on a fetus inside a pregnant females womb, be it a human or K9, the only discoveries made by scientist about EGs is that stress and nutritional deficiencies are the two reasons why there is any effect on on an animals DNA structure based off of what we know about EGs, and stress and nutritional deficiencies go hand in hand, when an animal is deprived of essential nourishment then its body easily succumbs to stress and when an animal is severely stressed it doesn’t eat as it should and when it doesnt eat the body has a hard time digesting and metabolizing what it has ingested, even then if there is an actual change in the DNA structure those changes aren’t permanent and more than likely be fixed back to normal in a few generations based on what scientist know and understand about EGs, when I first discovered EGs and how they work I was actually in the same school of thought your currently in and was thinking to myself, “ man we’re about to be able to change the game up” and had the EXACT same theories you do, almost word for word to be honest, I was dating a lady who has a bachelors in genetics  and at the time was working towards a masters and was doing her thesis on EGs, I was quickly shot down and made to realize I was looking at these possibilities through rose tinted glasses and misunderstood the concepts of what scientist are discovering about this by her professor with whom I was corresponding with on this subject, I believe EGs and adaptation and evolution are a lot closer linked than what is understood at the moment and, at least in my opinion are keys to answers to a lot of questions of life outside the world of dog genetics, like I’ve stated before I believe more will come out of it than what we currently know the more research is done.
              Now correct me if I’m wrong but going off of what im gathering on your theory on how EGs work, then a man would be able to
go purchase a female coonhound that has won the world hunt, buy a male that has won the world hunt, (same breeds of course), mate the two dogs mentioned above with each other and feed the pregnant female coon meat and coon blood and let her tree a coon every night during the duration of her pregnancy and have extremely greater odds of producing an entire litter of world champion caliber dogs than Mr. A.L Nighthunter who has good quality dogs that are competitive whenever, where ever, and against whoever, and only feeds his dogs kibble and keeps a pregnant female isolated to her whelping   pen during her gestation, this going solely off what you’ve mentioned about like dogs producing like dogs and from what I’m
Gathering of your EGs theory, like I said don’t take this as poking at you, I’m just trying to get a better understanding from where your coming from with this...


Here’s something else to wonder about if you haven’t already, that could, in reality, actually have a greater lasting impact on the way we breed dogs and that is neurogenetics or behavioral genetics, it’s already scientific fact that different parts of the brain control different functions such as the frontal lobe controlling the interpretation of the 5 senses, motor skills, processing of the 5 senses, reflexes, agility, higher learning
and the temporal lobe controlling the action of finer muscle control and skills, regulation of blood flow and pulse rate, the brains reward center, endurance and stamina, and memory just to name a few. Now it has been speculated and not yet proven that only the male contributes the DNA for the formation of the cerebrum (frontal lobe)  and the female only contributes the DNA for the cerebellum( temporal lobe), if this is in fact proven to be true then it will give us the ability to take our breedings to a higher level by being able to understand the heritability and expression of what traits we’re looking for, and how to selectively line our breedings out to make the most of this knowledge, now I know this is pretty deep and in no way a complete substitute for what we already know about basic genetics but to give those who like to have a better understanding of how things work something to ponder over...


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[parker49]

one thing we don't look at is ...does it have  to be born in ? or can a dog inherit learned traits ? and instinct's ?

[Goose87]

one thing we don't look at is ...does it have  to be born in ? or can a dog inherit learned traits ? and instinct's ?

That’s something I’ve give a great deal of thought to, breed specific traits such as herding, circle baying, pointing, flushing, treeing. etc. that are well known and established in different breeds all had to come from somewhere, natural pointing dogs didn’t just appear, somewhere at some point in time a dog figured out (maybe with the help of a trainer) how to successfully point birds which I would say was a learned behavior, same way with cur dogs who naturally circle bay, a dog at some point in time had to have the intelligence to figure out that was the most successful way to get the job done, look up on the wild dogs of India, they all look nearly identical and function in packs with precision of a skilled military unit, they are 100% a product of their environment, this is where I think epigenetics could or would would begin. Why do ducks naturally migrate south or certain species of salmon find their way back to their spawning grounds, neither are taught by their parents? where did those traits come ?


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[Goose87]

one thing we don't look at is ...does it have  to be born in ? or can a dog inherit learned traits ? and instinct's ?

That’s something I’ve give a great deal of thought to, breed specific traits such as herding, circle baying, pointing, flushing, treeing. etc. that are well known and established in different breeds all had to come from somewhere, natural pointing dogs didn’t just appear, somewhere at some point in time a dog figured out (maybe with the help of a trainer) how to successfully point birds which I would say was a learned behavior, same way with cur dogs who naturally circle bay, a dog at some point in time had to have the intelligence to figure out that was the most successful way to get the job done, look up on the wild dogs of India, they all look nearly identical and function in packs with precision of a skilled military unit, they are 100% a product of their environment, this is where I think epigenetics could or would would begin. Why do ducks naturally migrate south or certain species of salmon find their way back to their spawning grounds, neither are taught by their parents? where did those traits come ?


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We’ve done the same thing Mother Nature has with coyotes and wolves but only faster through artificial selection...


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[Reuben]

goose...you sound very impressive...I do appreciate your mind...I haven't seen my dogs ever wanting to eat coon but they will kill one on the ground pretty quick...and yes I agree with you in quite a few of the things you are saying...but you must know that our scientist have been wrong many times and the general public will grasp the idea and run with it...but those are normal things that happen and over a period of years others improve on the ideas...that is normal...I do read and observe things that happen and then I develop my own theories as to why some things happen...sometimes learning about one subject will answer questions about others...many times we theorize because there isn't any data available to us but one thing we can do is use our common sense and common sense solves problems...

learned behaviors...there are many times that breeders of great pointers have taken a bird wing with a string and stick and jiggled it in front of a well bred pointer pup of six weeks and that pup goes to a steady point...do that with a hound or cur pup and it will more than likely not point it...is it a learned behavior? maybe but more than anything it is a bred in trait...

same thing with a well bred racing greyhound...over generations the best dogs will win...to the breeder with an eye and feel for the racing greyhound he will select puppies according to those traits which he selects...and then when the dog wins consistently then it is proven that he has what it takes to win so he is bred to females of the same type...we will leave out prepotency just to stick with what we are talking about...this breeder selected through what he saw and felt and he was right...but just like in many things there are many other things happening behind the scenes that he doesn't have any idea of what is happening but it really doesn't matter...these other things that he doesn't see are things that go hand in hand with what he sees...

why are some babies born addicted to crack? why are some babies born with defects because of lack of certain nutrients.

that little boy I talked about who could eat extremely hot peppers like they we candy and which they didn't bother him in any way that I could see...I don't think he will gravitate back to how a normal preteen would react to eating these peppers...he should of been red faced and sweating, possibly blisters on his tongue and severe pain from the hot spicy peppers...he should of developed a severe stomach ache but none of these symptoms appeared to be bothering this kid...something must of happened in his formation for him to have adapted so well to eating birds eye peppers...many will say this is not science...it is only an observation and I agree...

I like tweaking...

I throw a sweaty t-shirt in the puppy house and switch it every few days with another sweaty shirt...I do that for about three weeks...I want them to see me as one of them...at four weeks or so I throw a meaty hog head in the yard and let them tear it up...I use hunger to my advantage...I want them to love it...I test them for winding and finding and finding which pup or pups are the best at it...I test for ranging out...I test for baying style...I look for natural first...training doesn't impress me...natural ability does...what we have discussed is nothing more than what has been happening since the beginning of the time when living organisms were created...I didn't read that anywhere just common sense based on what I now know...it's just a higher level of understanding...because we understand more we can decide if we want to add to what we know and do...I know I will put the pregnant gyp in the bay pen two or three times before she whelps...maybe it won't matter much but I am about tweaking and thinking outside the box...

[jdt]

i just feed'em for about 10 months , then turn'em loose about 10 or 12 times and then kill'em or keep'em 



that's my training program  lol

[Judge peel]

Not to be ugly but this is some of the dumbest stuff I have read in a while. If you actually think that stuff works my friend you don’t put much rubber to the road. Not knocking your following of the science or methods of thinking. If your silly enough to risk your gyp and her pups baying and hunting then you might not be smarter than a 5th grader. Bottom line these are living breathing animals some we love some we don’t some are great off the bat some take time and work.


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[Goose87]

goose...you sound very impressive...I do appreciate your mind...I haven't seen my dogs ever wanting to eat coon but they will kill one on the ground pretty quick...and yes I agree with you in quite a few of the things you are saying...but you must know that our scientist have been wrong many times and the general public will grasp the idea and run with it...but those are normal things that happen and over a period of years others improve on the ideas...that is normal...I do read and observe things that happen and then I develop my own theories as to why some things happen...sometimes learning about one subject will answer questions about others...many times we theorize because there isn't any data available to us but one thing we can do is use our common sense and common sense solves problems...

learned behaviors...there are many times that breeders of great pointers have taken a bird wing with a string and stick and jiggled it in front of a well bred pointer pup of six weeks and that pup goes to a steady point...do that with a hound or cur pup and it will more than likely not point it...is it a learned behavior? maybe but more than anything it is a bred in trait...

same thing with a well bred racing greyhound...over generations the best dogs will win...to the breeder with an eye and feel for the racing greyhound he will select puppies according to those traits which he selects...and then when the dog wins consistently then it is proven that he has what it takes to win so he is bred to females of the same type...we will leave out prepotency just to stick with what we are talking about...this breeder selected through what he saw and felt and he was right...but just like in many things there are many other things happening behind the scenes that he doesn't have any idea of what is happening but it really doesn't matter...these other things that he doesn't see are things that go hand in hand with what he sees...

why are some babies born addicted to crack? why are some babies born with defects because of lack of certain nutrients.

that little boy I talked about who could eat extremely hot peppers like they we candy and which they didn't bother him in any way that I could see...I don't think he will gravitate back to how a normal preteen would react to eating these peppers...he should of been red faced and sweating, possibly blisters on his tongue and severe pain from the hot spicy peppers...he should of developed a severe stomach ache but none of these symptoms appeared to be bothering this kid...something must of happened in his formation for him to have adapted so well to eating birds eye peppers...many will say this is not science...it is only an observation and I agree...

I like tweaking...

I throw a sweaty t-shirt in the puppy house and switch it every few days with another sweaty shirt...I do that for about three weeks...I want them to see me as one of them...at four weeks or so I throw a meaty hog head in the yard and let them tear it up...I use hunger to my advantage...I want them to love it...I test them for winding and finding and finding which pup or pups are the best at it...I test for ranging out...I test for baying style...I look for natural first...training doesn't impress me...natural ability does...what we have discussed is nothing more than what has been happening since the beginning of the time when living organisms were created...I didn't read that anywhere just common sense based on what I now know...it's just a higher level of understanding...because we understand more we can decide if we want to add to what we know and do...I know I will put the pregnant gyp in the bay pen two or three times before she whelps...maybe it won't matter much but I am about tweaking and thinking outside the box...

Being as you like to use analogies to get your point across that are outside of the discussion, that is the reason I used the coon dogs as an example, using a scenario with what I’m gathering of your theory, I never mentioned anything about your dogs messing with coon and can’t decipher if it was a misinterpretation of a scenario or an attempt at a hint of sarcasm, I’m well aware that scientist and Dr.s aren’t right all of the time, and have seen it on more than one occasion, that’s why it’s referred to as studying and practicing in those professions, because no one has it all figured out, I’m an unconventional outside the box thinker  myself with enough common sense to have made it this far in life but won’t convince myself that my assumptions hold more merit than what has been scientifically discovered and that modern science has not yet caught up with my way of thinking...

Again I think you missed my whole point in learned behaviors and instincts becoming inherited traits, no, we can not tease a cur dog with a bird wing and watch him instinctively point, and your not going to take bird dog pup and send it towards yearlings in a pasture and watch them instinctively start wadding them up and circle baying either, being as all dogs share the same  ancestry but yet are extremely diverse in type and function then somewhere along the way dogs learned the ways to figure different task and all man did was enhance those behaviors to the point they became inherited traits through artificial selection, I find it hard to believe that way back when, bird hunters would get down on all fours and show the dogs the proper way to point a covey of birds, when the type of dog and breed itself was first being developed, same thing with stock minded dogs, before they were “traits” as you put they had to start somewhere, they didn’t just appear one day, look at the treeing walker breed, they are a well known and established breed with established breed specific “traits” but yet their origins are primarily from running walker stock, certain individual dogs within the running walker breed instinctively figured out or learned that some of their game goes up a tree, some hunters realized the potential and started breeding those individuals that would instinctively tree, which was not a trait bred for in the running walker breed, and through artificial selection turned unborn environmentally  learned instincts into established inherited traits...

We know why babies are born crack addicts and why some children are born with defects due to pre natal nutrient deficiencies, that’s nothing new and something that has been well known and documented, and can and
a lot of times are fixed, but those problems stay with that individual and are not passed onto its offspring...

Let’s say the example of the little boy with peppers did in fact create a pre natal TOLERANCE to capsaicin, the heat compound in peppers that makes them hot, does that mean that his kids will have the same tolerance, he will not be able to eat peppers during gestation...


Words on the street is that tweaking is bad for your health...


Not discrediting what you do with your gyps and pups, at the end of the day you pay for the feed and as long as you like them then that’s all that matters as long as the welfare of the dog comes first which I know isn’t an issue at all in this discussion, I just can bring myself to see where it helps out a great deal, being as mankind has been breeding dogs for specific purposes for hundreds of years and you better believe those methods have been tried before and if they worked then they would’ve become common practice, breeding and developing dogs is not rocket science and what has been discovered so far can’t really be improved upon a great deal, yes there’s no ceiling on it and always room for improvements and new techniques and I believe we’ll learn more as we gain the technology, but what is there that can be greatly improved upon that our forefathers have already built with a pair of worn out boots and a hammer, I  can’t argue with your sweaty t shirt method, because I do the same but later than 3 weeks, does it enhance what a pup is genetically loaded for, nope, but I have my reasons...




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[Reuben]

Not to be ugly but this is some of the dumbest stuff I have read in a while. If you actually think that stuff works my friend you don’t put much rubber to the road. Not knocking your following of the science or methods of thinking. If your silly enough to risk your gyp and her pups baying and hunting then you might not be smarter than a 5th grader. Bottom line these are living breathing animals some we love some we don’t some are great off the bat some take time and work.


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Judge...I never said I would hunt my pregnant gyp...I said I would put her in a Bay pen 3 or 4 times...big difference...and it wouldn’t be with a big boar Hog...i did hunt a pregnant gyp almost 40 years ago but she was a fairly loose Bay dog and I was pretty young at the time...

But at 10-14 years of age I hunted them almost daily until they dropped the pups...but we didn’t have hogs back then and there wasn’t anything dangerous out there that could harm the gyp...

[Reuben]

judge...I went back and reviewed what had been said  and I did throw it out there judge I included “take her hunting”...so yes I did say it...

[Judge peel]

It’s all good my friend you have your thoughts and I have mine. Everyone says silly stuff every once in awhile.


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[Reuben]

Goose...I was going back and reviewing what has been said and I just stopped...we have about exhausted prenatal, diet and  genetic modifications...

Gene modification and purification is alive and well...it is called evolution

here is what I do believe on the kid that could eat those peppers...some sort of cell modifications took place that have permanently changed him...this can happen in other scenarios for the better or for the worse...I know a man that is on disability because of mental impairment and it is permanent and it is because his mom was an alcoholic...so if these folks are to have children one day will they be affected by it? I would say yes through learned behavior...by being around the parents...

When breeding better I will have to say these are minor details when looking at the big picture....I brought this up. because in my opinion it can play a part in breeding better dogs...taking it to a higher level and I strongly believe in it...not that it makes a big difference but when we want the very best these are other things that we can do...

Hybrid Vigor within a breed...it will be hard breeding consistently good to great dogs on account there are too many variables we don't readily see...that is one reason why there are so many culls out there...when done right there should be very few...

below is something to think about...

to keep it very simple I will use red and black because it is visual and anyone knows what black and red are at a glance...

if you are wanting all reds and you have to breed this red dog to a black dog to get reds then this is what will happen...

1. you could fail right of the bat and have all black puppies...
2. you could have both reds and blacks...cull all the blacks and you are in business...

same dogs but blacks are the desired hunting dogs...it is a little more complicated but very doable...

1.you could have all black pups but...
2.the black pups you keep and breed could throw a few reds now and then...

hunting traits are even more complicated...one wrong breeding and we can have a slight to major setback...

goose...you have a gift for writing and retaining what you read...

the only way I could do it is to have the internet open and copy and paste...lol
there is no doubt in my mind you will breed what you want...

[parker49]

who knows ?