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Author Topic: Breeding Dogs Discussion  (Read 8806 times)
Judge peel
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« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2018, 09:38:58 am »

To me none of this matters one way or the other. What does matter is a mans time money and effort. So no matter what way is your claim to fame if you believe it and put your time money and effort in it you will have been watching and learning with a close eye. And if you do that with any thing you will be better at what your doing. I think that is the main difference in successful people and mediocre people.


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parker49
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« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2018, 12:11:18 pm »

bignasty  did  i say i bred females  to females hahahaha  well it wasn't easy takes years  of experince  hahahaha ....no telling what i type  sometimes hahaha
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Rough curs
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« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2018, 01:58:52 pm »

So Judge are yoou saying you can take any dog and make hog dog out of it with time money and effort?
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bignasty
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« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2018, 03:16:43 pm »

bignasty  did  i say i bred females  to females hahahaha  well it wasn't easy takes years  of experince  hahahaha ....no telling what i type  sometimes hahaha

Good stuff
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Judge peel
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« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2018, 05:35:10 pm »

Lol rough curs. If you want to hunt coons  get a coon dog. But there are many dogs that will get after a coon. But any way no I am saying that a fella gets a decent dog puts his time money and effort into them he will learn what he done good vs bad. Might not be the same for the next guy. But you can make any dog a hog dog if it has the want to and the skill.


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Reuben
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« Reply #125 on: April 12, 2018, 07:42:49 pm »

We talk about genetics, pedigrees, breeding coefficients, linebreeding etc...etc...all this is only as good as our dog selection process and standard of excellence...in our minds eye we need to clearly see what a great hunting dog is and breed towards that goal...we have to be totally honest with ourselves...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
parker49
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« Reply #126 on: April 12, 2018, 07:51:10 pm »

well all i can say is time and  money and effort want get blood from a  turnip ..... if you don't have good breeding in the dogs  your  training you may end  up with  one here  and there that is real nice  but  you will go through a  bunch  you will have  to bullet and a bunch that at there best  is half ass ...... just the way it is .....i been there done that ..
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Cajun
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« Reply #127 on: April 12, 2018, 08:21:39 pm »

Back when I first got into Plotts, I was to busy hunting them to worry about breeding them & did not want to lay a female up. I lost some very good blood due to not breeding them. I got a Weems bred gyp named Lucy & she had everything I was looking for. Had it all but she died at 2 without me breeding her. I went back & got a sister to her.(same cross different litter) She made the same kind of dog. I was living in MN. at the time & bearhunting in Wisc. Altho I hunted with some good Plotts there, they were not equal to that Blackie gyp in the nose, speed or grit department & I felt like I would be breeding down. Called Steve Fielder up as he had a littermate to her with the full intention of breeding her to her full brother. He talked me into breeding her to her 1/2 brother Roper. They had the same sire Soloman. I made this cross with extremely good results so I started looking at the family of dogs that created the Soloman dog. When I moved back to La. I was going over to Fla. to bear hunt & a friend of mine had a dog (Dummy)that could run with Blackie & was very cold nose. Come to find out, his Grandmother was a littermate to the Soloman dog & the rest was Leroy Haug breeding. (swampland) Made that cross twice with very good results. I also had another female named Bell with Swampland breeding & bred to the Dummy dog & got some nice dogs. Then I was crossing Bell offspring to the Blackie offspring & that is what I have been doing for years. The Soloman dog was Weems bred. Leroy Haug started his line of dogs based off of Weems bred dogs. I guess what I am saying is I thought I started with breeding around my female Blackie but then concentrated more on her sire Soloman. Bottom line it was a family of dogs that I was breeding around that kept producing. Yes, there were a few culls but the majority made very usable dogs & they got very consistent when we were stacking Soloman in the pedegree.
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hyan
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« Reply #128 on: April 12, 2018, 08:57:33 pm »

"Thinking Outside the Box"...

Over Time...


One day it will be common practice to feed, hunt the gyp on purpose to produce better pups...there will be a science for doing these thing to change/modify the genetic make-up to include the in our hunting dogs...

 I recorded a Nova Show (documentary) about lead in water “POISONED WATER”, it was about water issues in the city of Flint, Michigan…
They were discussing how lead poisoning affected children to include babies in the womb…the scientists say that lead goes where calcium goes in our bodies and they also said an unborn child will be born with the lead in their system because it was transported from mom to fetus…lead will replace some of the calcium where calcium is supposed to be concentrated and one of these places is between neurons which are involved with the communications system of the nervous system and this includes the brain…the lead disrupts this function especially in young children with developing brains…Calcium is also vital in brain cell health and is needed in maintaining healthy cells and for cells to produce more cells for growth…
The average IQ in children of Flint, Michigan was tested to be 86 and the average should be 100…
As already mentioned the science research indicates that the pregnant moms fetus when needing calcium for fetus development will furnish the fetus with the needed calcium and since the lead tends to congregate where the calcium is located, then the fetus can get lead poisoning through this process as well…the brain that has been exposed to high levels of lead in a child will have a smaller brain than that of a child who has not been exposed to high levels of lead…there are many different studies about the mother and her unborn child about other conditions good and bad, and if we are to learn more about these things…then it is possible to breed better dogs and raise children with a head start in life…

see you tube video below and you can visualize more of what is coming one day...breeding to a higher level...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqG5TagD0uU

the video...in reality this is nothing new...it is a pert of evolution that has probably been here since the beginning of time...the only difference is that some scientist are discovering a better understanding as to how things can change in living things...as the public (people) begins to understand then individuals or companies can use this knowledge to their advantage once they understand...does it make a difference? maybe yes and maybe no...I choose to believe yes...

a short story that is an example of raising the level of understanding in things...

at work in our safety meeting, especially in the hot months the safety folks talk about heat stress and to stay hydrated...after I developed a few theories on dehydration I asked the safety man why I should stay hydrated and he said because you don't want to over heat...

I felt like my interest and the unborn pup/child went hand in hand with dehydration so I did some research and it made sense to me on what I rad and connected the two as I read...

The brain, major organs including the heart, lungs and blood are made up of over 80 percent water...even our bones are made up of 30 percent water...we are made up roughly of 65 percent water...digesting our food to extract the nutrients takes water for the digestion system to work optimally...our blood circulation works best when hydrated properly...our blood carries the oxygen and nutrients to our
cells throughout our bodies including the brain...this keeps us alert and focused to better do our jobs...this focus and alertness will in itself help us to minimize accidents to ourselves or to our coworkers...

so when the blood circulation slows down our blood pressure goes up, our cells receive less nutrients and we can lose our alertness...of course there are many other things that happen because of it...

after the meeting a few guys came and said they never thought of this before but it made perfect sense as to why we really should stay hydrated...

I said all this just to try and make my point...most of the time we have one common level of understanding for many many years without really understanding the higher level even though it has always been there...

You are way to smart not being sarcastic I really mean that. I take the simple approach breed a great dog to a great dog and hope you get great dogs lol after all no matter how great a dogs parents are there’s no 100% the dogs will all be great or even hunt for that matter. I think selective breeding will make your chances of having good pups regularly go up but Mother Nature works in ways that will mess up the best laid plans. I also think there are way to much people breeding number 2 that they had no business breeding.


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« Reply #129 on: April 12, 2018, 09:14:21 pm »

i have a question ? and i' m not tying to be  smart or anything ....i but  see where some think the female is the way to go in breeding and i'm wondering where the thinking comes from ? is there facts  to back it up or  just opinion ?  i don't know ....myself i think it may be something when you start but after several generations  of tight  line breeding to me  on is  as  good as the other i just choose males cause  i hunt them more .....
I think the bitch matters more imho the reason I say that is when we would breed horses we would breed more to the mare or “marelines” yes we picked a stallion that would make up the “weakness” of the mare but the foal would always pull to the mares side. Mikes foundation bitch seams to be what his dogs pull to jase look almost exactly like that bitch. From what he tells me he breeds back to the traits of that foundation bitch. So I think the bitch or mare is a little more important then the stud. I think a lot of people put attention on the stud is because the stud can breed as much as you want him to. A bitch on the other hand has to come in heat then get bred carry pups whelp them and so on mean while the stud has bred 10 bitches.


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parker49
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« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2018, 12:06:41 pm »

 i worked for a man feeding his  race  horses when i was a kid and always heard that on the mares ....but  i think it changes  when you go to  multiple offspring and the way the dogs produce multiple eggs  ........ in race horses  they do not like more then one  offspring ata time i was told it devides the domainate genes from the mare .....maybe  not  maybe so i don't  know  just what i was told .....but  i do believe  alot  of what holds true  on some  animals breeding doesn't  on other's ......
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WayOutWest
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« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2018, 04:04:55 pm »

Some of this comes down to how many dogs you are willing to feed. If you keep a yardfull of dogs you can breed things just to try it. If you are feeding less than a dozen hog dogs you can't afford to make a breeding unless you are pretty darn sure it will work. It helps to have good folks you can put them with  but that has its own downside too. Mr Parker has a very different situation than say Rueben or some others. I know most of us like to do our own breeding but it takes a whole bunch of time and dedication get where you want to be. Those who do it with a small number of dogs have my respect cause I have done it with bulldogs. One wrong breeding is a heck of a setback.
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t-dog
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« Reply #132 on: April 13, 2018, 09:50:27 pm »

WOW, that is exactly right. Unless you are hunting with the people you place the dogs with on a regular basis, it's hard even then to just take someone else's word for what a dog is doing. For me its first hand observations only for the most part. Very few people make the same observations when watching the same thing. Its kinda like watching boxing. One judge says this guy won the round this judge says the other did. So i like to judge for myself. I wasted a breeding to a real good gyp because I took the word of a friend that I thought knew what he was talking about. I needed an outcross and bred to a male on his word. Then hunted with him later. It made me sick at my stomack to watch the way he preformed. The pups turned out but I never bred to any of them because of that male dog. I say all this to show that you have to be your own critic of your own product. You have to have a standard and know that every pup or every litter isn't going to meet your standards and you alone have to be big enough to know when to pull the plug on a litter. If i dont have a very high turn out percentage, then more than likely it doesn't matter how special that one dog out of the litter was, I won't breed it. Consistency is a major factor for me and what i do because I cant afford to feed a ton of dogs.
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Reuben
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« Reply #133 on: April 13, 2018, 10:10:54 pm »

WOW, that is exactly right. Unless you are hunting with the people you place the dogs with on a regular basis, it's hard even then to just take someone else's word for what a dog is doing. For me its first hand observations only for the most part. Very few people make the same observations when watching the same thing. Its kinda like watching boxing. One judge says this guy won the round this judge says the other did. So i like to judge for myself. I wasted a breeding to a real good gyp because I took the word of a friend that I thought knew what he was talking about. I needed an outcross and bred to a male on his word. Then hunted with him later. It made me sick at my stomack to watch the way he preformed. The pups turned out but I never bred to any of them because of that male dog. I say all this to show that you have to be your own critic of your own product. You have to have a standard and know that every pup or every litter isn't going to meet your standards and you alone have to be big enough to know when to pull the plug on a litter. If i dont have a very high turn out percentage, then more than likely it doesn't matter how special that one dog out of the litter was, I won't breed it. Consistency is a major factor for me and what i do because I cant afford to feed a ton of dogs.

yes indeed...that is how it is...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
parker49
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« Reply #134 on: April 14, 2018, 10:01:49 am »

some of the top dogs  i have  had  and  bred with  is dogs  other  people had  from pups  and  i bought em back cause they didn't think they would make  good dogs  hahahahaha ...can't get them to hardly sell me any back anymore
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WayOutWest
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« Reply #135 on: April 14, 2018, 11:42:02 am »

Not everyone has an eye for a dog or the ability to steer the dog in the right direction. A lot of dogs have what it takes but don't get the opportunity to succeed.
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parker49
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« Reply #136 on: April 14, 2018, 03:28:45 pm »

i hate  to say this but  it  is what it is  most people can't train one  if it has  any problems . most call training a dog taking it to the woods.. took me some years  before i figured out i killed some good dogs ..you still can,t get blood from a turnip .. but i can take a just decent dog and  when i finish my handle he's a good one ...i can send him out wind  off the buggy or if he comes in where he can hear  me i can holler suey  you better get ahead  and  they will turn and get deep by themselves  no help ....now  that didn't come natural thats me as a trainer ..... most dogs have  to be natural to survive especially these ugly black ones i raise hahaha  they gotta do something to get a  spot .......
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Semmes
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« Reply #137 on: April 17, 2018, 09:31:13 pm »

Ran across this tid bit...seems it was layed out in human terms as well...

Take it for what you may...

Not a judgement either way here on this end. Just ran across it and found it rather poinient to this thread.

https://www.bible.com/bible/114/NUM.36.nkjv
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Semmes
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« Reply #138 on: April 17, 2018, 09:39:28 pm »

Seems the term inheritance is interpreted as more than a property or monetary thing in most versions of this passage
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