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Author Topic: Being too critical  (Read 1124 times)
t-dog
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« on: August 25, 2018, 09:26:26 pm »

Today, while we were hunting, I was thinking about and watching my dogs. We didn't catch anything but not because of the dogs. It was most definitely human error. But, during this process I was thinking about where I started with my dogs and where they are at now. I thought about dogs that I liked, dogs I didn't like, dogs kept and why, and dogs I culled. It made me wonder if I was too critical towards my dogs. They covered every bit of country for over 3 hours or 4 without a sign of hogs. Finally at a mile and some change, they dug some hogs out. My favorite dog is a gyp named Raylynn. She's my girl. It was her first hunt back since puppies. So you know she was out of shape. Flap Jack is 4 and we haven't hunted him much at all this summer just because he's my buddies dog and really didn't want chance something happening to him without my buddy there. JT and Joey are litter mates and are right at a year and a half old. All these dogs are  very close related. You could look at the Garmin at any time and most of the day they were in the same direction but hardly ever together, always doing their own thing. After the big boar got loose from us at noon, we decided to catch everyone and go to the house. 2 or 3 different times, Raylynn was on the end of the leash walking on her hind legs wanting to go to another hog, still bouncing and springy. The way the dogs performed today, allowed me to be ok with being critical. Do y'all do the same thing? Do you think your overly critical some or most of the time?
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Reuben
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2018, 09:59:07 pm »

I am very critical but logical about it...around where I hunt even though it isn’t as much as I would like...there are enough hogs that usually 5 minutes or ten we are running one or more....once in a great while 30 minutes tops and they finally find one...I would like to hunt more areas where we would need to hunt hard to find one...
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WayOutWest
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2018, 10:01:03 pm »

I think you have the quality of dogs you have because you were critical. No doubt that you may have culled some that could have been worthy but you can't move forward without some kind of standards.
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t-dog
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2018, 07:33:22 am »

I agree with the having standards and I agree with being logical. I know in the past though, I was bad about judging or measuring in comparison to my old Clyde dog. He was special, a once in a lifetime kind of special to me. He did things over the years that just made me think wow! He was the same dog everytime you dropped him and that gave me confidence that he always had some slick trick up his sleeve just in case he needed it. Not one time did I ever drop him that I was disappointed in his performance. Never had to make an excuse for him as to why he wasn't up to par. This along with the privilege to hunt with him for years created a heck of a high standard for any others that came along. After he was gone, it was really a tough go for a little while. I  know for sure that I got rid of some dogs that were really nice because they didn't do or perform the same way I thought he would've in different circumstances. I'm pleased with where my dogs are right now, BUT...... could I have gotten here sooner?
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BA-IV
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2018, 09:09:07 am »

I know I'm to critical and learned it the hard way. I got a pup outta Big E's Boogie dog and Caseys gyp. When that dog turned 6 months old to when he died at 4 years old, he was my standard. He was a freak plain and simple. I culled prolly 30 head of dogs in that time span just because they couldn't get it like he was, couldn't even come close to him, and it cost me some decent to above average dogs I would venture to say.  He's still my standard, but a freak is a freak, and we strive for em but it's not logical to expect every dog to do that. I've mellowed out as well, and it's more about fun and my kids and buddies now and I take crap from dogs I woulda culled two years ago for doing it.  I've also realized as MIKE BOLEN puts it, "it takes ALOT of swine and time to make a dog." 

I look at my dogs and compare em to kids now since I'm coach and I find myself comparing kids I coach with analogies to young dogs  Grin, and every kid is different, it's my job to bring the potential out. But I did in fact cull myself out of dogs and just about restarted from scratch being overcritical and taking the fun out of it all.
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t-dog
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2018, 10:30:05 am »

We are a whole lot similar in those analogies. Kids, horses, and dogs is what I tell the boys all the time. You have to use real similar approaches when dealing with any of the three to get their full potential. And yes EVERY single one is different. I'll bet your a heck of a coach with that kind of mind set. Owning or hunting with those freaks allows us to see that it's possible for a dog to achieve such feats. BUT, as mentioned they are all different and the laws of average usually win out. I just try to improve on my average.
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Reuben
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2018, 11:07:10 am »

When I started Hog hunting I culled dogs left and right...some of the hounds barked too much and took older tracks...too many of the stock dogs didn’t have the hunt or nose...once I decided the large type my curs were what I should go for came with their problems as well...finally found the right ones...I decided for me to be happy with the product I would have to breed my own...once I got the right dogs it was fairly easy...the absolute hardest part was finding the right dogs...once I had those the results from linebreeding, inbreeding and proper selection thru testing made it fairly easy...turning the females quickly to purify the bloodline helped tremendously...then one day I gave it up...

So two years later I wanted back in and I said I would spend the money or time and recreate what I had done once before...no quick turnovers...8 years later And many dogs later I believe I have something worth breeding...I am still critical but logical about it...I like a dog that gets out there quick and located quickly and sticks with it until the job is done...or at a minimum do a great job trying...

In our minds eye we know what we can expect from our pups and dogs realistically...for me it is a high expectation but a reasonable one
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
t-dog
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2018, 06:52:22 pm »

I started raising my own because I couldn't find what satisfied me either. Not saying that there weren't good families out there, but all those years ago, I didn't have the money to go coast to coast looking for what I wanting. I had to shop at home so to speak. I was fortunate to have much older mentors that helped me in a million ways including finding dogs to breed to.  I think at this point in the game, I'm as critical of other hunters and their methods and ethics as anything. Not that I'm a guru, but I know you don't have to beat the hell out a dog everytime it makes a mistake or doesn't read your mind or isn't born trained. Simple things like  feeding your dogs everyday, making sure they have water and shade, and worming them and keeping the fleas and ticks off of them. That's all real basic but there are a ton of people that are just too sorry to do it. Or you take some jackass hunting on a place that you've been hunting for years and the first chance they get they're back in there without you. First thing you know you dont have a place anymore because stuff got stolen or rutted up or equipment messed up or fences cut or some bs. Yeah, I'm pretty critical of those types and won't change on that one.
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Reuben
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2018, 08:02:59 pm »

I agree...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
Judge peel
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 08:06:26 pm »

Ya that’s how most people are these days.


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TheRednose
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 09:35:55 am »

T-Dog you might be over critical I don't know, but over is better than under when striving for excellence in my opinion. I believe you have TWO really good families of dogs that any man would be proud of, and I think you got that for a few different reasons but being honest and critical are a couple of them.

I am critical and honest with my dogs, I will tell you the good (if it has any) and the bad about all of my potlickers. I have culled and moved many dogs down the road due to this. I don't think you can sustain a good breeding program and keep it moving forward if you are not, at least that is what I have been told by my mentors.
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t-dog
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 08:50:20 pm »

Thanks Michael
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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2018, 06:39:33 am »

I can relate to this discussion whole heartedly.Since I started hog hunting I have been on a tireless quest to find the line of dogs that suits me and my expectations in what a dog should be.I've went through a metric sh@t ton of average decent dogs.I even got into a proven line of dogs from very successful hog hunters raised and finished out dogs off this line and caught a pile of hogs behind them did a breeding from 2 proven related dogs in my yard and gave every pup away got rid of every finished and started grown dog from that line, years of work and countless dollars.Why? Because I saw something better I got ahold of a young cracker gyp at 6 months old from an even older line of dogs down here that are highly guarded and extremely hard to get ahold of at 14 months she made everything that I considered good at the time look foolish by 18months she was hard to beat in any company no matter the state or terain.I decided then to abandon my entire program and hit the reset button.I managed to line up a breeding with an equally impressive non related male but same breed of cracker dog.I got rid of all my dogs except Holly the momma and Zeus an old neutered ruff ass male I have that'll never leave my yard.I kept 4 of Holly's pups and glad I did.Shortly after coming off the pups Holly got gator eatin.Since then I was able to get my hands on Holly's sister who's close to her equal and another non related Cracker gyp named Cypress who's just as impressive in her trailing ability and natural abilities to control hogs.My Holly pups are now 14months and remind me of their momma more and more everyday My one male Hambone has had the most time put in him so far and is really hitting his stride.I finally feel like I have a solid foundation to work a breeding program off of and am really just getting started.All from being very critical and honest about what I had.
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Reuben
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2018, 11:49:04 am »

yes sir cracker...I am glad for you...to me one of the most important traits one must have is in having the ability to see the truth in each of our dogs...and then breeding correctly based on the truth...and then selecting the right pups or at least having access to the best of those pups...once we have the right dogs we must turn over some generations so we can improve the percentage of quality pup produced...I have also seen where the dogs can be bred to hunt harder and wider with even more grit than pervious generations...

there can be reasons why I dog did not perform as well as he should have...such as not being hunted enough in the heat or the dog is too overweight...that is where common sense comes in...

also...there are excuses why a dog isn't hunting today or the other day or last week...more than likely that dog is a cull...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
t-dog
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 01:15:42 pm »

Again like BA-IV said, dogs are like people and more especially kids. They are all gonna have off days. To me it's a question of how off and how often they have them. I breed my dogs relatively young for one reason, they have a hazardous occupation. If it looks like they are gonna be what I bred them to be then I don't take a chance of not getting seed back out of them. Every breeding I make has the breeding in mind so each litter has a role in my breeding program. Consistency is huge for me. If I have a pup that is really cranking it up but the rest of the litter is sometimey or not up my standards, I won't breed to any of them, even mine that's good.  I no longer take the word of other people that the dog they got from me is what they say he is, good or bad. Too many people don't know what good is or don't know how to get a dog over a hump that more times than not, they created. I can't tell you how many dogs I have taken, be it out of my stuff or not, that made pretty nice kind of dogs after I got them. Not because I'm a dog god but because the person they came from was further from a dog god than I was. So I hunt with and evaluate for myself. I try to place pups so I keep track of their progress on top of the fact that I have confidence that the people getting them will give them a fare shake.  Cracker, an old mentor once told me if I ever quit looking for something better that I would never have the best. I took that to heart and it can be interpreted in different ways. I found what I thought were the best and now I try to make them better , at least  better by my standards.
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Reuben
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2018, 09:01:22 pm »

Good post Tdog...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
Judge peel
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 01:25:36 pm »

I guess it’s all in how you look at things. I been told a lot of things by a lot people. I just look at them as a dog not a super scientific project I think that’s why things tend to work for me. At the end of the day it’s a dog you ether like it or you don’t.


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