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Author Topic: When does your catch dog get a vest  (Read 2981 times)
t-dog
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« on: February 26, 2019, 02:56:06 am »

Here lately there have been a lot of dogs getting caught by the hogs instead of the other way around. It happens no doubt. BUT.....the extent of unnecessary damage some of them are taking could be  prevented. In a time when our sport is under the extreme scrutiny of the tree huggers, hunters aren't doing their part, in my opinion. I love this sport and hope to see my boys be able to take their kids. As long hog hunters gotta post pictures of cut dogs, brag about how many dogs got cut and how bad, openly admit they didn't put any gear on their catch, and on and on, we are giving ammunition to the enemy. If you are hog hunting to be macho then leave the catch dog at home. You run in there and ear a big bad a$$ boar with your teeth then I'll tell EVERYBODY how bad you are for you. Hell, I might even patch you up before you go back to the woods. To say, oh my catch dog gotta earn a vest, is about as dumb a comment as there is. It takes walking a dog (with patience) to one bay usually and then they don't normally care about a vest anymore. You can vest them and let them run around in your yard before day one in the woods. You don't have to do a thing. Vest it, turn it loose to run around, while you go back in the house and watch cartoons, it's that easy. This is a hazardous sport, things are gonna happen, do your part. It's kinda like coaching little league baseball and getting mad because your team lost, it happens. I'm as competitive as anyone, maybe too competitive. To lose is a hard pill for me to swallow. Somehow you gotta figure out how and why it happened. Everyone isn't as talented as everyone else and when you add inexperience, it happens. Don't mean they weren't trying or didn't want to win, it just means that day wasn't their day. Dogs are no different. If it didn't want to catch that hog it wouldn't run in there and engage it. That big bad boar is alive and running around because he's smart and he's bad. That dog is giving weight and going in without regard for his own body. Our job is to protect them from harm within reason. If that dog doesn't catch the way you want in a reasonable amount of time then move him. I'm gonna get off my soap box now, but sure hope people start using some sense, give a dog a honest chance, and respect the game before they ruin our sport.

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jsh
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 05:30:39 am »

 I could not agree with you more and have been biting my tongue here lately. Here is what I do and it works for me…

I will turn a green CD into his first one or two catches without a vest, however I know exactly what he is going in on. I will either put him in a situation out in the open where I can see what the pigs are i.e. - sows and pigs or smaller boars  or turn him to a catch dog that has already caught and I have seen what it is. After one or two catches like that I will vest him up and he will want it so bad that he will forget he even has it on. Keeps him from getting hurt and don’t have to fool around with one wearing it around the yard. Only woods training.

Not trying to say it’s the only way or the best way, but trying to maybe help someone who is new to this.
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chipolariverman
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 07:12:02 am »

Mine gets a vest before they leave the truck and I put them in the buggy or on the 4wheeler.  This serves 2 purposes in my opinion. One is they get acclimated to the vest because we start late winter and hunt right through the summer. Two when there is a bay they are already suited up and ready to go do their job. I have several vest that look like they have been in a blender.  Can't tell me they haven't saved my dogs and some vet bills plus they can hunt the next day instead of having to leave them in the kennel all stiched up and licking their wounds.

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NLAhunter
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 07:36:58 am »

I don't never turn a catch dog loose without a vest on I start putting vest on em at the house when they are smaller let em just wear it get use to it I usely even put it on em when I let em start catching in pen at the house. Our best catch dog got cut yesterday for second time this year she has only got cut couple times in her life she has been used a whole lot in last 4 years hundreds of hogs she has caught she is on her second or 3 Rd vest and it is starting to look like freedy cruger got ahold of it but has never been cut though. I had young catch dog with me yesterday when we caught the hog that cut her he was 220-230 with some real good teeth that young catch dog first hog in the woods vest didn't bother him he went right in there caught because he use to it already no vest on that hog you would have had some dead dogs he cut 2 loose baying cur dogs one gyp that is 5 or 6 year old that hasn't ever hardly had a scratch he just wanted to fight

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TheRednose
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 09:35:11 am »

If you can't afford a vest then you prob shouldn't be using a catchdog, shoot the hog. If you are too lazy to put a vest on then you shouldn't be hunting. And no a dog does not earn its vest, I seen someone say that once and that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

I was raised to take pride in what you do, in everything you do. Setup nice kennels or chain spots. Feed your dogs right, make sure they have water and proper shelter. Don't half ass things, do them right. If you can't or its too much then maybe you should find a different pastime with less upkeep. Just saying.

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Goose87
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 04:16:33 pm »

I'll be "THAT GUY", because YES I do make my catch dogs earn a vest, I want to see its catching style and how it handles the pressures of being a catch dog, I'm not keeping or feeding anything on my yard that I don't have a plan to breed and every single one of them has been tested, I'll take the scrutiny or whatever it be or be the dumbass as some of you have said, first off the ones who post pictures of cut up dogs on any social media platform are compensating where they come up short in their masculinity, second, I know very well the dangers of hog hunting and what could happen but everyone needs to be honest with themselves because the majority of catch dogs that are getting butchered are probably being sent to a bay from a few hundred yards because the hunters don't have the confidence in their bay dogs to hold the hog at bay long enough to get closer (50 yards or less) so you can be on top of things when number 2 hit the fan, they are scared to death they might miss the opportunity to get a picture of a hog to boost their bravado and will do whatever it takes to catch that hog, then go around bragging about how they're so macho bc they got a dog cut up, now I'm not a dumbass and can read my dogs just as good as most of you can read this post and know by the tone of their baying if it's a good hog, or if I'm going after a "mission hog" and know what I'm going into ill put a vest on them, I know what I want out of a catch dog, most hog hunters just want or need a pair of jaws and teeth just to initiate a catch from the rest of the dogs and pay absolutely zero attention to how their dog is catching, there's a difference between a catch dog and a dog that catches a hog just like there's a difference in a dog man and man who owns dogs, some of y'all will not believe me and I really don't care but I've seen thousands( yes I said thousands) of dogs catch, for nearly a decade we had catch dog competitions every single weekend around my house, there were 5 or 6 different arenas that held the competitions so every weekend there was one, and with nearly or over 100 entires a night it's not hard to get to those numbers, I used to sit and watch dang near every dog run bc I loved it and have seen just about every make and mode that has the ability to catch a hog at some point in time, so I know what I want and expect and will not settle until I have it, I was raised around game dogs and game birds and NEVER EVER have I seen a dog or bird brought and entered in a show that wasn't TESTED before hand, I don't get some sort of jolly out of seeing a dog get cut up but there are WAY to many people breeding dogs that have never been properly tested to see if they have the SURVIVAL skills, by being protected they don't learn how to catch without avoiding a business end and learn how to position their bodies in a way so they learn the ropes, IF and when I see a dog that has learned how to handle himself then I want to breed more like it and do what I have to protect them, I keep a cut collar and vest on whatever rig I'm hunting out of and use it when necessary, nor am I going to condemn another hunter for their way of doing things as long as the dogs are properly taking care of, a professional boxer doesn't get to be a top contender like Mayweather by being protected their entire careers, no they've had their bell rung enough to know how to counter moves and position themselves, no different than a battle tested apbt in a box that knows how to avoid a mouth or knows how to strategically dismantle their opponent, if you've never witnessed it then you have no clue to what I'm talking about, if your afraid of your dog getting hurt or killed then there are others forms of working with dogs, hog hunting with dogs is a gladiator sport, I love, care for, and have the most absolute respect for my dogs, just ask anyone who personally knows me and they'll be glad to tell you the things I've done for my dogs or others dogs without a seconds hesitation or the pride I take in my yard and kennel set up and the quality of care my dogs receive, no I'm not driving all over the country side trying to catch every big bad hog I can just so I can get my dogs cut up and brag about it or see how tough they are, if by chance they do get a cut then yes I'll be glad to let them sit up and heal up and lick their wounds if they feel compelled to do so...


You know I think running a bunch of rough ass dogs is cheating, a rough dog and a pack of piranhas is two different things and running vest on bay dogs is one of the most absurd things ever, I've only known one man who did this that I can understand where he was coming from and why and that man is a bear and hog hunter, but I don't pass judgement on them or tell them how ignorant or wrong they are because when your pointing your finger at someone theres 4 pointing back at you...

So again I'll be THAT GUY before I go spend money on a vest for a dog that I know nothing about or am trying, I will however spend the money once I see the potential, and before y'all make anymore assumptions about ole goose I just spent 80$ on a vest for a dog that doesn't even belong to me but does belong to my best friend and I use him just as much as he does, but I guess he should just get out of hog hunting because he's a working blue collar man who supports a wife and 3 kids on his meager salary but loves hog hunting more than any man I know including myself and just doesn't have the extra money most of the time to spare on non essentials, by the way y'all are making this whole thing out if you ain't got money to go all out then you should just sit at home, correct me if I'm wrong...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 09:39:47 pm »

I would never send a cd to a bay with out a vest unless there is a reason. I like them to learn how to catch with there vest on not to earn one. If they don’t get a vest they probably would have never earned it to begin with. Mouth heart and skill to catch don’t stop the sharpness length and skill of the hog.


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t-dog
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 10:15:35 pm »

Well since you've seen so many catch dogs and you have the ability to see what a dog is or isn't, then it shouldn't take long to see a dogs potential. I don't doubt that you've seen plenty. I don't doubt that you know your dogs or that you take care of them. There aren't many times on here that I've disagreed with you Goose, in fact a have a lot of respect for you. Here's the thing though, Mayweather didn't learn by getting his bell rung by Mike Tyson. He learned by getting it rang by someone comparable to him in size. Like you, I grew up around dogs and game chickens. They didn't spar or fight a 4 pound rooster with a 5 pound rooster. A big hog can literally slap a dog hard enough to break bones. If a dog has brains I can tell you without him catching a hog. As for sending one into a hog that probably isn't going to cut them up, how many times have hogs broke and wound up in a group to try and brush the dogs off? A dog as green as you are speaking of probably doesn't have the greatest handle on it yet so it will quite possibly engage a different hog because it didn't come back as soon as you called or the hog broke. Even with a vest, dogs get cut. You can't prevent them all but you can a lot of them. I agree that there is a difference in a catch dog and a dog that will grab and hang on. Again, I agree with a bunch of people turning catch dogs to a bay from way too far out and taking way too long to get there. Not having the intestinal fortitude to get in there and get the hog down is also another problem. Like you, I hunt and invest time in the dogs that I plan to have in my breeding program. It doesn't make sense to me to increase the odds of getting ruined or killed. I'm no dumb ass myself. I have enough sense to see if they are gonna be what expect them to be without taking that chance. If they aren't learning without taking a cutting, then odds are I already knew they weren't very smart. As for toughness, I  haven't had one quit me yet that was out of my family of dogs. I have seen and been told of them taking freakish shots that killed them and they were still on the hog when the hunter killed it or tied it. Not one time have I seen or heard of one of mine stopping because they were hurt or even dying. I'm either getting super damn lucky or I'm doing something right or both. As for the picture posters, I feel the same way as you. It's more times than not to compensate for their short comings. I'm never against anyone trying to protect their dog. If a bay vest on their bay dog is what they want  then that's ok with me. I have mixed feelings about running them on my dogs. Now, as for your buddy not hunting because he doesn't have the extra change to spend on a vest, that's his call. I believe everyone needs an out or a way to relieve lifes stresses. If you use the dog that much you should do your part to help out. So buying a vest for him was the right thing for you to do. The two of you teamed up and y'all are doing your part to protect it and give it every chance. That's all I'm getting at. I've never said or insinuated that hog hunting should be for the rich. Hell, I'm in the same boat as your buddy and most everyone on this board.

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CutNShootHD
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 10:48:13 pm »

I recently got an American Bulldog who I consider my backup catch dog (my boyfriend really wanted to “turn a catch dog loose!!! Lol)  I’ve run a Catahoula cross named Bleu I’ve used for 8 years (no type of bulldog in him whatsoever) now as my main catch dog. He is turned out full time as a running catch dog fully vested and collared.  Honestly I didn’t vest him for a while because I thought I “needed “ a bulldog and figured ol Bleu would back off some if he got his butt whooped a few times..... No it made him catchier soo he got some good gear and I got rid of the 2 pit bulls I had.  He’s never let me down, always catches hard. Both these dogs are vested and ready for action.  The American bulldog got vested from day one every hunt even though he probably won’t get used. I am by no means a pro or even know much about anything, lol, but I do believe in protecting my dogs as best I can, especially my “rough” ones.  I got a used vest given to me by a buddy for the bulldog but a few years back I got Bleu a new vest for (maybe too much....!!) $160 not including the cut collar.  He got cut on the jaw recently, so even though he wears over $200 worth of protection he still needed a drain tube and a little sewing.  I guess another topic of discussion is...having a fully vested dog on the ground at all times. I know there’s multiple risks there as well but honestly my choice is to keep doing what’s been working for me  Grin    I trust my dogs with my safety so I’ll do what I feel like I can for them  angel     
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Goose87
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 06:46:24 am »

Well since you've seen so many catch dogs and you have the ability to see what a dog is or isn't, then it shouldn't take long to see a dogs potential. I don't doubt that you've seen plenty. I don't doubt that you know your dogs or that you take care of them. There aren't many times on here that I've disagreed with you Goose, in fact a have a lot of respect for you. Here's the thing though, Mayweather didn't learn by getting his bell rung by Mike Tyson. He learned by getting it rang by someone comparable to him in size. Like you, I grew up around dogs and game chickens. They didn't spar or fight a 4 pound rooster with a 5 pound rooster. A big hog can literally slap a dog hard enough to break bones. If a dog has brains I can tell you without him catching a hog. As for sending one into a hog that probably isn't going to cut them up, how many times have hogs broke and wound up in a group to try and brush the dogs off? A dog as green as you are speaking of probably doesn't have the greatest handle on it yet so it will quite possibly engage a different hog because it didn't come back as soon as you called or the hog broke. Even with a vest, dogs get cut. You can't prevent them all but you can a lot of them. I agree that there is a difference in a catch dog and a dog that will grab and hang on. Again, I agree with a bunch of people turning catch dogs to a bay from way too far out and taking way too long to get there. Not having the intestinal fortitude to get in there and get the hog down is also another problem. Like you, I hunt and invest time in the dogs that I plan to have in my breeding program. It doesn't make sense to me to increase the odds of getting ruined or killed. I'm no dumb ass myself. I have enough sense to see if they are gonna be what expect them to be without taking that chance. If they aren't learning without taking a cutting, then odds are I already knew they weren't very smart. As for toughness, I  haven't had one quit me yet that was out of my family of dogs. I have seen and been told of them taking freakish shots that killed them and they were still on the hog when the hunter killed it or tied it. Not one time have I seen or heard of one of mine stopping because they were hurt or even dying. I'm either getting super damn lucky or I'm doing something right or both. As for the picture posters, I feel the same way as you. It's more times than not to compensate for their short comings. I'm never against anyone trying to protect their dog. If a bay vest on their bay dog is what they want  then that's ok with me. I have mixed feelings about running them on my dogs. Now, as for your buddy not hunting because he doesn't have the extra change to spend on a vest, that's his call. I believe everyone needs an out or a way to relieve lifes stresses. If you use the dog that much you should do your part to help out. So buying a vest for him was the right thing for you to do. The two of you teamed up and y'all are doing your part to protect it and give it every chance. That's all I'm getting at. I've never said or insinuated that hog hunting should be for the rich. Hell, I'm in the same boat as your buddy and most everyone on this board.

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Tdog I want to first say that I took no offense from anyone, I'm a grown man and don't old grudges or take things to heart that I know myself aren't true about myself or my yard, I'm a passionate person but do get rubbed a little when a blanket statement is made, I myself have a great deal of respect for you and just about everybody I converse with on here, like the street saying "real recognizes real" and I've stepped in enough bullnumber 2 in my life to tell the difference in it and mud, and it's not hard to tell whose full of it and whose just got mud on their boots, your right it doesn't take me very long to see what I need to see in a CD, if I haul it to the woods then there's something I like and have seen in a pen (controlled environment), my reason for being like this about a vest is bc over the last 4 years I have owned 1 cd that was breed worthy in my opinion and an ignorant individual tied him up to a tree after a catch in a manner he hung himself when I went to go get him, since him I've been through a pile of Bulldogs and for one reason or the other none of them made my cut, they either didn't have the hard bite I want or didn't have the mouth to "stick" the hog on their first shot and not re bite, I will not let a catch dog stay here that's "chewing on the hog when I get there, some folks might be able to live with a dog like this and as long as it makes them happy and they take care of it I don't care, the others have quit or hesitated after being beat around, I understand the power a hog has, I have a video I made several years ago of a bay where my buddy sent his cd and the hog popped him with one good lick and he came running by me with his jaw dragging the ground scooping dirt, I could go on about the bad number 2 I've seen a boar do but most of us know these things already, another I cull for is where a dog catches, most of the time their on the ear but if there isn't any real estate available then I settle for a jaw but if it becomes a habit they won't stay here and I will not own a consistent snout catcher, again some will and that's perfectly fine by me, I'm not sure about your area but around here there's piles and piles of junk, used to I could pick a bulldog up of the side of the road and go make a catch dog out of him but nowadays even the junk yard dogs are junk, so before any amount of my money is invested in a catch dog he is going to show me he's worth it, it has not a thing to do with being macho or any along those lines, I've retired one catch dog due to old age and eventually had to put him down myself bc he couldn't be turned loose as a farm dog because even at 11 years old, no teeth and full of arthritis he would still try to catch a  yearling and his quality of life was diminishing quickly, besides him I've owned one other like him and that was my old Geronimo dog, the current dog were using now reminds me so much of them it's crazy but has a much harder bite that I love, I wouldn't say your lucky to have the catch dogs  you do bc if it were luck you wouldn't have a family like them, what's is luck is us finding the male were using and him turning out to be what he is, I've got 4 pups off him here at my place and placed to more males with some friends, again I was taking no offense when the comments were made about "if you don't have the money to buy cut gear, find something else to do," but what in the heck have hunters done for well over 100 years before cut gear and hog dogging became a fad, that would be the equivalent of me telling my grandpa to stay at home if you don't have a garmin or tracking system because he came from a time when all that stuff was unheard of or telling a guy who loves what he does more than a man with the means to by new everything that he should just get out if he don't have the money to put nearly 500$ worth of recovery equipment around his dogs neck, so you see where I'm coming from, I'll say it one more time no one or post offended me at all and I don't have any ill feelings towards anyone who posted on this subject even if I strongly disagree with someone, doesn't mean I think any less of an individual...
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t-dog
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 08:15:12 am »

I have the same expectations in a catch dog Goose and you are absolutely right about the current JYD vs. the JYD of yesteryear. I have 4 grown bulldogs right now. 2 are out of my family, one is out of an outside female, and one doesn't carry any of my blood. None of them have a lot of experience. The half blood is the most experienced and was given to me because he lost a cutter. He's as athletic as can be and about 80 pounds. But, there are some questions that I have to see answered before I decide if he's my kind. He's real smart, a thinker on his feet. He caught the hog and never quit wanting it when he lost that tooth. I was there when it happened. It got knocked out or tore the whole tooth out with a little bone still attached. I've seen dogs quit over less. He's been put up for about 6 months letting it heal. I caught one sow that crossed an open field with him the other day. It's the second or third time I've seen him catch. A vest isn't going to do anything to affect what I need to see. The dog that is a complete outside dog is also a really nice dog. He was given to me by someone that didn't have time for him anymore. He's been in a vest since his first trip to the woods. So far, he's doing everything right. He has been slapped pretty good a couple of times now and it only makes him mad and more determined.  That is a good sign. He would have been cut at minimum by both of those hogs and maybe ruined or dead. Instead I saw how he responded to one of my questions and I get to keep hunting him. When I first started hunting they didn't even make cut vests. Then came the wet felt vests and now our modern day vests. There are so many styles and options out there that I just can't imagine not using some type. I think you are a dog man. In that, I also believe you, me, whoever can see what we need even with them vested. I  do understand that the way you are using them without a vest is somewhat of a controlled situation. I LOVE a good bulldog and bay dog like I love Dolly Parton...with all my heart! I gotta give them what I feel is a fare shake.

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The Old Man
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 10:20:15 am »

These days I vest and collar my catchdog. I used to go through bulldogs like thirsty men do cold beer, and would not even consider cut gear, finally after I had gotten another bulldog killed a friend of mine called and said "I heard you lost another bulldog" he went on to say you need to buy a vest and cut collar, I replied I'm not gonna put a dress on a bulldog. He tells me he has a 5 yr old bulldog in the yard right now that has caught hundreds of hogs and he is sound and ready to go today, I thought about a minute and decided you can't argue with the truth so very soon I ordered my first set of cut gear. I am aware one can get killed in cut gear but it greatly increases the odds in favor of the dog and to date I have not had one killed in cut gear.
I do however refuse to put cut gear on my baydogs for multiple reasons, mainly heat, swimming problems and hanging up in thickets or treetops in water, also I figure if my baydog gets cut he made a mistake and I want him to know he made a mistake, I count on them using athleticism and intelligence to keep themselves from getting cut and killed. If he's to rough and not intelligent enough the hogs will cull him for me, if he is scared and quits I will cull him that leaves the ones I call just right to use and breed. Now I realize even a really good one can get in a jam and get caught but if it is painful and they live through it they should come away smarter for it.
To each their own, cut gear or no on catchdogs or baydogs I have no problem with how anyone else uses their dogs this is just what works for me.
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The Old Man
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 10:33:33 am »

If you think cut gear doesn't inhibit a baydogs ability to get around just put on a football helmet and pads and take off through the brush or wear a light jacket when it is 100 degrees, or even go swimming in a full suit of clothes hahaha. These examples may be extreme but the principle is the same.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 12:57:54 pm »

I have like many wore a flak vest in the extremists weather conditions under distress. The pull is less then the gain. These are battle harden dogs not cream puffs if there cd or rough dogs with out a vest most wont make it very long. I don’t knock any one do what ever you think is best. But I keep mental notes it’s Isley the same guys over and over getting there dogs killed. You can’t stop them all but you can prevent 90 % or better


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chipolariverman
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 03:01:55 pm »

So this is a little off subject here but how do y'all fell about cut collars on the bay dogs?

I personally run them on almost all of my bay dogs, just the cut collar, of course it has the GPS collar on it also and a shocking collar if it isn't the TT15.  I run both the Astro and Alpha. 

I have tried the bay vest on several bay dogs and only had success with one but it still didn't save his life.  A big sow got him down and rooted him into the ground or slammed him into a tree and busted his bladder.  I was less than 30yds from him but it was thick and couldn't see what exactly happened.

 
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2019, 04:04:00 pm »

So this is a little off subject here but how do y'all fell about cut collars on the bay dogs?

I personally run them on almost all of my bay dogs, just the cut collar, of course it has the GPS collar on it also and a shocking collar if it isn't the TT15.  I run both the Astro and Alpha. 

I have tried the bay vest on several bay dogs and only had success with one but it still didn't save his life.  A big sow got him down and rooted him into the ground or slammed him into a tree and busted his bladder.  I was less than 30yds from him but it was thick and couldn't see what exactly happened.

 
Bay dogs shouldn’t need anything but a tracking collar.


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Judge peel
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2019, 04:15:38 pm »

Slim I have seen a few fellas think like that before then wonder why there dog got its throat pricked and bleed out thinking he was going to a bayed hog. Seen guys dogs get gutted that wasn’t rough. That’s not a smart rule to follow. If you know your dogs then you can make judgement calls best suited for that dog but if I got a bay dog that gets testy from time to time I will vest them up. A lot of this sport is common sense and learned experiences don’t have to be a lifer to know stuff but at the same time you got to use good judgment. Every hunt and hunter is different


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Goose87
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2019, 04:21:55 pm »

I'm not totally against vest or any cut gear for that matter, and once I find something I like I do what I need to prolong its use in the bushes and brood box BUT I have to see what I like first, I know there's examples that can be used for and against the use of cut gear, a buddy of mine hauled a cd around for 3 or 4 years and caught a pile of hogs with him heck I even tied quite a few he caught, but he was always ran with cut gear on and a pack of dogs backing him up at the catch, he gets out of hunting and wants me to take the CD and got mad at me when I wouldn't and I told him why I didn't like the dog and couldn't promise him I wouldn't cull the dog and I valued our friendship more than I did the need to own that dog, so I sent some young boys who hunt with me to go get the dog and they took him to a bay pen to catch, hog wasn't big and teeth weren't big enough to do any internal damage, he took to the hog, got the snot popped out of him and got cut on his shoulder and straight up QUIT, turned around and came back to the gate, that was exactly what I saw coming from him and why I didn't want him, he had never done that in the woods but had never been cut either, another instance I was trying a blue dog out and had been running a vest on him and the one time I sent him to a solo dog baying without any cut gear he got a good nick on his side and was baying when I got in there, luckily my cur dog saw me and caught which prompted the cd to catch, needless to say he didn't make the ride home, from then on out my mind was made up, now I'll go out on a limb and will say I've caught quite a few hogs that if the dog didn't have a vest on there's no way it would've survived, in those instances none of those dogs had the catching style I like and that was the very reason for them taking the whoopings they were, they all would catch and immediately pull away from the hog lining their body up in front of the hogs and putting their neck and chest right in front of the hogs business end, the first cut vest I saw was made out of wet felt and it was also the first "murder" scene I walked in on, the poor catch dog was massacred and the hogs tooth had gotten hung up in the leg hole of the vest and just wollered a hole in the dogs chest cavity, this being an older cd that had caught a pile of hogs before hand without any type of protection other than a two inch wide regular collar, there are just as many of these stories as there are success stories about cut gear so it's all personal preference I have my reasons why I do things the way I do...
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2019, 04:41:59 pm »

I'm not totally against vest or any cut gear for that matter, and once I find something I like I do what I need to prolong its use in the bushes and brood box BUT I have to see what I like first, I know there's examples that can be used for and against the use of cut gear, a buddy of mine hauled a cd around for 3 or 4 years and caught a pile of hogs with him heck I even tied quite a few he caught, but he was always ran with cut gear on and a pack of dogs backing him up at the catch, he gets out of hunting and wants me to take the CD and got mad at me when I wouldn't and I told him why I didn't like the dog and couldn't promise him I wouldn't cull the dog and I valued our friendship more than I did the need to own that dog, so I sent some young boys who hunt with me to go get the dog and they took him to a bay pen to catch, hog wasn't big and teeth weren't big enough to do any internal damage, he took to the hog, got the snot popped out of him and got cut on his shoulder and straight up QUIT, turned around and came back to the gate, that was exactly what I saw coming from him and why I didn't want him, he had never done that in the woods but had never been cut either, another instance I was trying a blue dog out and had been running a vest on him and the one time I sent him to a solo dog baying without any cut gear he got a good nick on his side and was baying when I got in there, luckily my cur dog saw me and caught which prompted the cd to catch, needless to say he didn't make the ride home, from then on out my mind was made up, now I'll go out on a limb and will say I've caught quite a few hogs that if the dog didn't have a vest on there's no way it would've survived, in those instances none of those dogs had the catching style I like and that was the very reason for them taking the whoopings they were, they all would catch and immediately pull away from the hog lining their body up in front of the hogs and putting their neck and chest right in front of the hogs business end, the first cut vest I saw was made out of wet felt and it was also the first "murder" scene I walked in on, the poor catch dog was massacred and the hogs tooth had gotten hung up in the leg hole of the vest and just wollered a hole in the dogs chest cavity, this being an older cd that had caught a pile of hogs before hand without any type of protection other than a two inch wide regular collar, there are just as many of these stories as there are success stories about cut gear so it's all personal preference I have my reasons why I do things the way I do...

I don't personally but one of my closest friends does, not as much as he used to but will still put one on if he has a dog that's starting to get to catchy, me and him made some a long time ago out of an old tow strap and some old collars we had, he used them for years and I used one on my CDs, they were extremely flexible and offered enough protection to keep the main artery from being cut, we made some from an old fire hose and a wide strap that's used on trailers to secure the load, again they weren't as tough as Kevlar but they didn't hinder the dogs movement in any way, I'm like Old Man on this one and I never have and never will run a vest on my bay dogs, main reason being that Mother Nature never makes mistakes and a dog has the ability to quit the hog or get away from him took protect and save himself but CANNOT escape the heat that comes from the use of a vest, it's not so much a factor in the cooler months as it is during the summer months and it may not seem like a lot of extra weight to us but to a dog it might feel like the equivalent of ten extra pounds when you compare their body size to ours if and when those vest get wet and soak up water, a few extra pounds may not seem like a lot to us who are mostly getting around in buggys and bikes and not making the step for step trips the dogs are making, another thing you can look to for comparison, go run your dogs in the middle of the summer and let them get good and hot and put a wet towel on them for just two or three minutes and observe how much heat that wet towel traps and holds in around the dogs body, that's heat thats not being able to escape the dogs body and cool the dog off, maybe I look to much into things, maybe I don't look enough, who knows, I read a book on animal psychology and mainly cattle handling written by Temple Grandin, those of you who are deep enough in the livestock industry ought to know who she was, if you've ever worked cattle in any modern day working pens or facilities then you've seen her work and might not know it, how she became so successful and world renowned was she put her self on the animals level and observed things as the animal would and made some major break throughs in cattle handling that beforehand had baffled the "professionals" and most today don't even realize it, I took what I learned from the book and applied to how I handle my dogs...
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2019, 05:14:41 pm »

Last post was directed at the cut collar question, not sure how I quoted myself but anyhow...
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