Age old Question?

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

What creates a RUNNER?   

Fellers,,, I have hunted all over the state from top to bottom like many of you have in your state..   Why is it that you can find areas that has more hogs that would rather run than bay..  Is a runner created or born yall reckon.   I do understand different type dogs and different terrain plays a big part in this equation.  But when we load up and go to these places that we know has the runners,,, have you created a pack to deal with just the runner type or a method with a pack that tends to serve the purpose differently than if you are hunting hogs that tend to bay quicker..  So .. please inform somebody like me how to catch em ,,,  run the wind out of em or try to catch em with a pack of alligator dogs that catch on site..    I should say,, that this place I am speaking of is chest deep of palmettos and you cant see your feet ..So those of you that are from florida that knows first hand how to deal with it,,,, throw me some pointers cause this certain place is makin me scratch my head...

[NLAhunter]

Some hogs just going to run no matter what kinda dogs is put on em I think some hogs have probably been taught to run from them dogs that want get in there and nip and bite on em but in them thick pallmetto it's hard for dog to Bay a hog in that dogs make so much noise going though em and they so thick dogs can't see the hog they run over em before they see em several years ago a man I know good they went to place bunch of hogs and he had some real good cur dogs not rough they run hogs all day never caught one next weekend couple boys went down there with sure enough rough pack of dogs they caught 8 good hogs in that place had some dogs messed up pretty bad too

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[chipolariverman]

RCD is the answer to the palmetto thickets where I hunt.  Even if you get a hog to bay in there when you turn the catch dog loose it sounds like a bull elephant coming through the woods and the hog breaks before the catch dog can get there.  That is my experience. 

I hunt a place along a river that is thick with palmettos like what you are talking about, if the dogs get in there on a hog they won't stop 9 times out of 10 and if they do they want stay bayed.  I believe it is due to what NLAhunter said, the dog can't see the hog so they put too much pressure on them and they break.

When we hunt this place I carry my RCD and the roughest dogs I have so when they find the hog they catch it, no baying, just straight up catch.  Honestly I hate the place but it almost always produces hogs every time we go. 

[Goose87]

Aside from the dogs folks never consider the history of the land, I live in south east la where the majority of the land is timber company land, the days of free ranging hogs have be gone dang near 100 years, with the exceptions of a few places along the river here but even those days have been gone 15-20 years ago, first "hog dog" I ever recall seeing was a lassie type collie and blue heeler mix my pawpaw used to catch his pigs with so he could change them, we catch a lot of Russian looking and type of hogs, hardly ever catch any listed or spotted up or colored up hogs anymore, some run bad and some bay up fairly quick, depends on the amount of pressure the hogs get, I've got a place that I can literally drive up on shoats rooting in the open during the day and they won't run, as soon as I stop the truck they ease of in the woods, I use the place to start pups and never put the dogs down where the hogs see me or the dogs see the hogs, I only start pups on this place and there isn't anyone else pressuring them anywhere around so they bay easier than most places, go on down the road a little bit and you better have a pack of hair pullers or track stars, I go hunt in northwest La a few times every summer with some older men and the hogs run but nothing like they do around my area, they have a lot more color to their hogs and they have bigger ears and it's easy to tell they are descendants of the old feral free range stock, not saying they have any tame blood in them they are just a different type of hog than what's commonly found around my area, my area has more hog hunters than any place I've visited before so just about any given day of the week there is someone hunting around here and the hogs run like deer, I've been breeding for track speed, for a dog to be able to get up on a hog fairly quick, we still have our share of getting just plain out run but nothing like I did years ago, we tried using catchy curs and either constantly was doctoring on dogs or they wouldn't bay a settled hog and steadily kept nipping and biting and making the hogs break, once I started breeding for track speed my dogs got a little looser and I attribute that to the more running walker we've been breeding in them, I've seen a boar hog cross a field dragging his testicles behind him, with a few cur dogs in tow behind him, when a hog has it on his mind to run, he's going to run no matter what, it's my opinion that runners are a combination of the hogs genetics and the amount of pressure they have put on them and different types and styles of dogs fall under that category, I know how you feel, I'll go to one place and feel like I'm feeding superstars and a few days later feel like I'm ready to cull everything, as long as the good days outweigh the bad days then I'm satisfied...

[t-dog]

That's the way I see it too goose. In the high pressure areas, not only is there pressure from numerous hunters, but the stand and fight mentality hogs are caught first. The flight before flight hogs live to root another day so flighty breeds to flighty creating more flighty. What you guys are hunting in I've never hunted in. It sounds a lot like hunting the corn though. My best results in the corn were with a little rougher set of dogs and putting more of them on the ground at one time.  When the hogs feels the pressure they usually leave the corn. When they do that it's back in our favor. They have a tendency to make mistakes when there's something coming from every direction. That usually interrupts their game plan or escape plan.

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[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

I sure appreciate the info fellers....  Ive always been one to sit down after a hunt and analyze the hunt ,, to see what the dogs done and how they done it.. What worked and what didn't.  As we all know ,, different spots call for different strategies to be successful.  These landowners want results ,, and I cant stand to be beaten   LOL.....  The plots that we run has all the bottom I can pour into a dog,,, their effort isn't the problem ,, territory ,,,Like Goose says plays a big role and  If I have too,, I will use the dogo's this yr in a RCD manner in certain circumstances when I know what kind of hogs are on cameras...  Cross my fingers and try to put em in the best scenario ,,, so I don't have to run 800 yards to a caught rank boar hog....  Im too old and too vet poor for that ...

[Austesus]

Alligators. My private land has hogs that run the second they hear a twig break. They’ll run 8 hours straight and not stop. We run 6-8 dogs on the ground and everything catches. We have a variety of dogs but even the straight pits that we use will go miles with a pig. They’re not just rough dogs, they’re all straight catch. Pigs are buckled before we get there. Small pigs are sometimes dead before we get there. Having all catching dogs reduces a dog getting hurt too. If you have a pack of gritty dogs and only one that wants to catch you have a lot better chance of it going wrong compared to having 6 dogs on a pigs head holding him down


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[Slim9797]

Really debating on replying to this. Don’t want to be the 21 year old know it all that hurts someone’s feelings because they don’t agree though


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[Mike]

Really debating on replying to this. Don’t want to be the 21 year old know it all that hurts someone’s feelings because they don’t agree though


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Say what’s on your mind Slim... I’m probably thinking the same thing.

[Judge peel]

Two sides on this coin rough ass dogs that just don’t give a dam and I ain’t talking 8 dogs ether three or 4 will do or they ain’t very rough Hell one or two can do it. Or you best have some stick or you going to come up empty. I seen guys turn out ten and 15 dogs lol it’s pretty dam funny to watch 10 dogs bay a 125 lb hog but hey everyone has there own methods


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[Judge peel]

Slim your never two young to know something or to old to learn


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[bigo]

 If every hog you get on runs and most of them outrun you, it's not a hog problem, it's a dog problem. You need dogs that are loose when they need to be and rough when they have to be and the brains to know which one to be at the right time. They have to have the nose and speed and run to catch. Hounds opening don't make hogs run, it's because most hounds are too slow and they run just to run something instead of to catch it. I've had an old dog bay and the hog never move, then when a young comes in to the bay, the race is on, or break when the catch dog gets close. Some hogs are going to run and some will out run you, but not just about everything you get on.

[l.h.cracker]

I hunt palmettos alot I'm talking huge patches I also own both types of dogs a straight catch shorter range sure enough rough cur dog and bay dogs both work in the palmettos and all our hogs are runners but whichever type of dog you prefer it has to be a quality dog or you ain't gonna catch a single one in them palmettos.A dog has to have track speed and as bigo mentioned run to catch or stop to get it done rough or loose QUALITY IS KEY THOUGH.

[jdt]

hogs are more like cattle than cattle are . if you misshandle them you will have to catch them with a damn rough dog or a rope and have dogs that'll stick till you get there .

   catchdogs and guns have created more runners than genetics has .

[Goose87]

That's the way I see it too goose. In the high pressure areas, not only is there pressure from numerous hunters, but the stand and fight mentality hogs are caught first. The flight before flight hogs live to root another day so flighty breeds to flighty creating more flighty. What you guys are hunting in I've never hunted in. It sounds a lot like hunting the corn though. My best results in the corn were with a little rougher set of dogs and putting more of them on the ground at one time.  When the hogs feels the pressure they usually leave the corn. When they do that it's back in our favor. They have a tendency to make mistakes when there's something coming from every direction. That usually interrupts their game plan or escape plan.

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T-dog, you wouldn't believe the amount of hog hunters around here who can't grasp that reasoning, and the ones who want to argue have no clue about working and managing any type of stock much less trying to manage wild hogs, and the guys around here who can't or won't accept the fact that it can be done run packs of land sharks and just about every hog they catch is chewed to hell and back and barely edible, if we catch a hog in one of our main spots that bays easy it lives to see another day, if it gives a hard race then he's cut and if it's a sow ( without criminalizing myself) it makes it as well just in another place, we show our fare share of dead hogs to the farmers but the area we mainly hunt was originally populated by those same farmers and their fathers or grandfathers so hogs are a part of life around there, I'm not to ashamed to admit that over the years we've had some tame blooded and half blooded hogs get out of the pen and we left them out in hopes they would breed with the wild hogs but it's been 5-6 years now and we've never caught one of those hogs back, they and their offspring are easily caught in traps and between the trappers and night vision hunters there's hardly any big bodied hogs left, I can remember 15 years or so ago it was common to catch listed and colored hogs and 300lb boar hog was just and average boar, now the colored hogs are left in small pockets and if you catch one that's 300lb you've done something, and I can't hardly recall any long all day races back then, now that those hogs have been caught and killed, just as you said the only ones left contributing to the gene pool are the ones who had the skills and mentality to get away and live another day, with the exception of a few others other than myself there are few hunters around here who remember or even know about how the hogs looked and acted all across the board before there was a hog hunter on every country road...

[Goose87]

If every hog you get on runs and most of them outrun you, it's not a hog problem, it's a dog problem. You need dogs that are loose when they need to be and rough when they have to be and the brains to know which one to be at the right time. They have to have the nose and speed and run to catch. Hounds opening don't make hogs run, it's because most hounds are too slow and they run just to run something instead of to catch it. I've had an old dog bay and the hog never move, then when a young comes in to the bay, the race is on, or break when the catch dog gets close. Some hogs are going to run and some will out run you, but not just about everything you get on.

That is exactly why intelligence is the main factor I breed for, a dog can have all the bells and whistles one can have but if he doesn't have the intelligence to know how and when to use them then he is no good, after loosing my pack for the 3rd time and when I decided to learn about breeding dogs I got my hands on stock minded cur dogs and went from there, I catch way more hogs now with looser baying dogs than I ever did with a pack of rough catchy type dogs, not saying there's anything  wrong with that style of dogs, I just base my thoughts and opinions on what I actually see happening, I have an old gyp I just recently decided to retire to the brood pen that has had more good hogs caught in front of her right by herself than any dog I've ever owned, most would probably cull her, I don't care they don't pay my feed bill, she WILL NOT pressure a settled hog, I always knew if it was a good hog bc she wouldn't be baying hard, just about every time some help was sent to her to tighten up the bay the hog would break, sometimes they would get it stopped fairly quick other times it would be an all day thing...

[Goose87]

hogs are more like cattle than cattle are . if you misshandle them you will have to catch them with a damn rough dog or a rope and have dogs that'll stick till you get there .

   catchdogs and guns have created more runners than genetics has .

I'll agree with most of that but will never be convinced that being rough with polled Herefords and making them wild will never make them wild as them eared up citrus land cattle are that have never had a rough hand put on them and that is all genetics lol...

[Reuben]

The stand and fight mentality hogs are the barnyard looking hogs...the flight first and fight when they have to are the Russian type hogs...and those are the ones which live to breed another day...the cream rises to the top...Mother Nature doesn’t make mistakes...

[Slim9797]

Stocksense is a lost trait in 90% of “hogdog” stock these days. We’re still baying rally’s in country that has been hog hunted with dogs consistently for over 40 years. The trick is it’s been the same few ranchers, with the same family of stock bred curs, that had cow dogs and hog dogs, that have always been the same set of dogs, that’s had rights to this couple sections of land right here along the yegua. These hogs have been as hunted as any have, and yes some run and the ones that do are usually big boar hogs and they run for a few areas and if the dogs do like they are supposed to they will see him through. Yes we get out run more than I wish because fact of the matter is no these dogs aren’t what they used to be. I have adopted the mindset of the men who have brought me around, and that is I would rather kill one and my dogs work right, than kill 10 and my dogs work like crap. I picked my 2 up Saturday morning cause they bayed a group and didn’t bay worth a lick. Killed 2 and left because We weren’t accomplishing anything except teaching good hogs how to walk off from a sorry bay. I like dogs that know How to get bayed. Those kind of dogs will work anywhere. You can keep your dogs with 30 miles of bottom, or the ones that catch on sight, we will keep the ones that know how to get bayed and have enough brain to respect the stock because that is what has worked since the free range days, and the hogs today are hogs all the same as they were hogs back then. I believe 99% of hogs today still want to bay. It might be in their bed, or 2 miles away where they originate from. Dogs that know How to get bayed will tell you more often than not. As the old saying goes, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it


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[cajunl]

How many bay hogs and not catch them? How many bay a sounder of sows and pigs and only catch the boar piglets out to cut? My guess is not many here.

If you bayed a group of cows in the woods and sent a bulldog to everyone or shot everyone. After awhile i don't think they would bay in a pretty group anymore.

Times have changed!