Genetics question and input...

[Goose87]

I have some pups on the ground now that I'm not exactly sure the sire is, I know who the candidates are because she was locked in an enclosed horse trailer at the first sign of swelling and only exposed to two males, one being her littermate brother that looks identical to her, and the other my solid black male Smutt, the window I've narrowed it down to put it at around the time I swapped the males out, I was hoping to breed her to her full brother in hopes of just getting more of that blood to work with, they are the top two out of their litter and are some really nice hounds, I waited till she started flagging and put her bro in the trailer with her and he missed and knotted up outside, I took him and put him back on chain for a few hours and just put him the trailer with her when I fed up, I never saw a tie, I left him in there next day and took him off for two days and tried again, again he missed his shot and I just left them on the trailer for another week, never seeing a tie, afraid she might not be bred I took her brother Ben out and put Smutt on there with her, this being the male I should have went with my sense and bred to anyway but was scared if I didn't get anymore of that exact cross before something happened to either one , my future plans would be fouled up and the sire to the litter was dead, Im pretty sure black is mostly a dominant gene and a good friend of mine Coltin graham had raised a litter of Smutt and his full running Walker gyp ,Nike, that is red and white and comes from red and white dogs, Coltin and his dad have raised them dogs for years, anyways all those pups come out black or black with brindle trim, just likes Smutts sire, 10 days ago my Dolly gyp had pups, being as Dolly and Ben both solid red dogs with white chest I figured the pups would look the same, and their mother is a solid colored yellow dog, being as I know quite a few dogs directly behind Smutt and close relation to him and know what colors they were and what colors a lot of the pups have been, and a lot of the dogs behind Smutt are light red/sandy  dogs and quite a few cheddar cheese looking yellow, and some white and patched up dogs, I have one white and patched up looking one in the litter, but Ben and Dolly's sire was white and red patched as well,some of Smutt littermates were red, is it possible the red genes are dominating the black ones, some of the pups have a black tint on the tips of their fur, and Smutt has saddle backs behind him, but both Ben and Dolly's great grandmother was a B&T we coon hunted, it's kinda a crap shoot right now, I'm definitely having some DNA test pulled later but would like someone else's input as well, the genes are behind each male to produce these colors, but I was first figuring Smutt and Nikes litter were all black even the dame being red and white, and I've read before where the black gene is the dominant gene, some of smutts pups would be black, but the way genetics work it could be lined up for them to be Red, any input on the genetics of color, would be appreciated, even if you think you don't have a clue I'd still like to hear your thoughts.... 


I'll also add I currently have a litter of Ben and his mother Shiloh, every one of those pups is almost uniform in color, they look like what is described as reverse BMC, yella colored with a light black saddle...

[TheRednose]

First of all you could have pups from both sires if they were bred back to back.

Next Black is a dominant gene but it all depends on how the genes line up for what colors are expressed. I kind of understand it but not fully as I would have to devote some time to it I would rather spend doing other things like hunting. Im sure there are other people on here who have a much better grasp of it than I do. I know with gamedogs the red/red noses come from recessive genes and that is why they are commonly expressed when dogs have been inbred. The more inbred a dog becomes the smaller the pool of genes they have and the higher likelihood of recessive genes lining up and expressing themselves.

Good luck let us know what you find.

[Mike]

I don’t have a clue, but I just bred two tight bred black dogs together and got 2 black, 1 brindle and 1 black and tan... I would have bet money they would all be black.

[Reuben]

Mike...it makes sense that the dominant black color should produce all black puppies...but it can be complicated...

I think this is how it works as one example...if one parent is yellow it inherited one yellow gene from one parent and another yellow gene from the other parent and all pups should be born yellow..:but sometimes a dog might not be yellow even though it appears to be yellow...so then that will explain the other colors...

But to keep it simple we will say all pups born will be yellow...each parent can only pass one color gene even though they have two...we know each parent can pass only one gene because the other parent passes the other color gene to the pups...since the parents each carry 2 yellow genes all pups are guaranteed to be yellow...

Breeding a yellow dog to a black dog...we know the yellow dog has 2 yellow genes...because both have to be yellow for that dog to be yellow...

If that yellow dog is bred to a black dog and the black dog is double black on color genes...then all pups will be black...

But now the all black offspring carry one yellow gene and one black gene...because the yellow parent could only pass a yellow gene it is now luck of the draw for color...

All the pups were born black because one parent was double black for color and black is dominant over yellow...

When you breed the offspring (all black) with each other there will be yellows and blacks...yellows bred to yellows from these will produce all yellows...blacks bred to blacks and the potential is there to produce all blacks or some yellows and blacks...

That is how I understand it but it doesn’t always work this way...

I’ve bred red to yellow and have gotten yellows, reds, different shades of brindles...even a blue and tan...

Also have bred 7 generations and all of a sudden a chocolate pup shows up...

[Cajun]

DDC Veternairian in Ohio is who you need to call. You will have to DNA the mother, the possible sires and the pups in question. It is 36.00 a dog. Call them and they will send you the DNA kits for free.  I can get the number tomorrow for you or you can google them.

[Goose87]

DDC Veternairian in Ohio is who you need to call. You will have to DNA the mother, the possible sires and the pups in question. It is 36.00 a dog. Call them and they will send you the DNA kits for free.  I can get the number tomorrow for you or you can google them.

So it will be 36$ per pup?

[Cajun]

Probably but call them and ask their advise . Good people.

[Goose87]

Probably but call them and ask their advise . Good people.

I sure am, thanks for the info...

[Goose87]

I found a place where you can order a membership for different packages and save a bundle of money, I’m about to order a Breeder membership for 50$ a year and will be able to order as many test as I want for 16.95 a piece, they also offer a kennel club membership for 100$ a year and you can get the kits for 12.95$ a piece, I’m pasting the link below...

https://dnaproofofparentage.com/product/dna-proof-of-parentage-kit/