What's ideal?

[t-dog]

When I read on here about everyone's dogs, the different breeds, and the different styles of hunting, I wonder what ideal is for everyone. Even those that hunt the same way have a different flavor or idea of what the ideal dog is. For me, I want a dog is gonna leave as soon as they are released. I want brains and more brains. I want track pushing speed and run the track to catch so to speak not to chase. Once they get close enough I want enough bite to grab a hog in the butt or jewels and turn it, not pinch it and push it. Once its faced up I want them to have the ability and brains to keep it there. I want a good nose, a good loud mouth, bottom, and stay. I also have a build preference and  color preferences too. Color is the last factor I consider. I want a dog that knows where to hunt not just a brush buster. Those dogs are quicker locators and in the Texas heat, that's a game changer too. I have to have hound in them. To me, the hound just puts that heart and drive there. It should add nose too but that drive is the biggest benefit of hound in my opinion. There are curs/cats/etc. with drive and bottom but it isn't as consistent to me. I found that during the cooler weather they were barn burners but when it got hot and hard, they weren't so eager to work. Again, I know they exist but consistency was the problem I had trouble finding. That is the last characteristic that my ideal dog possesses, consistency. They are the same dog every trip. What is ideal for you?

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[Jmesonp1]

I'll take 6 when you find a consistent breeder of that dog.

[t-dog]

Lol I hear ya! You gotta have goals though

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[t-dog]

That's kinda what I'm getting at. You and I obviously like the same kind and style of dog and the opinion of what makes our preference good. But others like Black streak has a style and what he thinks a dog needs to possess to be good at. Cracker has that in between style kinda, judge peel has a style and they know what it takes for dogs to be good for their style. I want to hear those qualities. Not everyone wants a big wide hunting dog, or one with a lot of stay, some like slim put a lot of emphasis on working style, etc.

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[Shotgun66]

The ideal dog for me would hunt from my feet out to 1000 yards. It would be tone broke and have an excellent handle as well. It would stay hooked until the hog was caught or I toned them off. Dead silent until faced up and bayed on the hog. If the hog breaks, shut up, get in front of him and bluff him into stopping as soon as possible. The dog would use hog sense and terrain to stop the hog rather than grit. I prefer bay dogs that won’t put a tooth on one. I also like them to work equally well alone or with help.
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Similar to Mike Bolen’s dogs. Half TDog, half Slim dog......since we are dreaming!

[Judge peel]

I like all styles of dogs if the dog can perform then it has a seat at the table. I have tryed those long range dogs not for me main reason is I don’t hunt big ranches. I prefer short range medium nose dog that has decent stick to em. I find bottom is more important to me then range. Dog should be very handler friendly in other words do what I say. Now keep in mind there dogs not computer programs. I want them to act like a dog to and preform on it own free will instead of being forced. Medium build seems to be the right fit for me I have heavy dogs and used them a lot in past years. The lighter dogs have more stamina and heat tolerance then the bigger dogs. The dogs must be fast to decent movers. They must have enough grit to stop a hog or enough brains to get in front of the hog and turn em. Now loose or gritty don’t bother me but be one or the other not both. I don’t mind a one out type cd ether but I don’t like pit crosses. Not real big on the dogs being open ether but if there good then it’s ok. And I don’t care if a dog sets on the head baying or works around the hog looping holding is what matters.


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[Goose87]

T dog just about described what  I’m working towards, first two things I look at before anything else is 1) Brains/intelligence, they can be the most physically gifted athlete in the world and have all the right tools, but what good does it do if they don’t have the mental capacity to effectively use those tools, look at a construction sight, you’ll have individuals in clean clothes and less physical work in “boss” positions and most are usually good at what they do and then you have those that can’t stay clean no matter what, never organized, and have to be taught over again everyday and babysat so they don’t mess anything or anyone up, correlate that to dogs, I just culled a really nice gyp bc she wasn’t kin to anything I got and bc she was ignorant as piss in a bottle at home and couldn’t be taught and consistently barked and ran down her run nonstop all day and just wasn’t mentally stable

      2) the desire to go get bayed on a piece of game, naturally under its own free wheel, a lot of different factors fall in here I’ve never been able to put a range on my dogs, they’re range is to find a hogs and get bayed no matter how far the hog is, I’ve had one bay offside of rd and one ran a pig for miles and hours...


     Brains coupled with desire to work a hog

[Goose87]

Pair up in many ways I’m not going into too much detail about but, are successful when it the right hands, I’ve bred/added running walker into my dogs for their track speed, trailing nose that’s not taking tracks with cobwebs in them, line control of their track their on, confirmation, stamina, and their ability to hold up day after day, when I’m in thought  about rather to move or keep I’ll take the dog by itself at night, just about all my friends around here hate hunting night bc their dogs don’t perform as good it’s seems, or is the most often used excuse, DUH, during day they have plenty of  light they can see in front of themselves and where their going and just navigate the woods way easier and faster, with more confidence, at night he has to utilize his nose way more and depend on it to move him forward through the brush nearly blind and not knowing where he’s going other than where his nose is telling them, if they have the gumption to do that factor in baying, working, and controlling a pissed off beast who only wants to ruin the dogs day and then go eat, breed, and sleep some more, I know I get cranky when something hinders me from a snack, sex, or a siesta, jokes aside hunting at night is a different ball game than when it’s light out, it’s more difficult and less success rate but I LOVE the challenge nightfall brings now that I recognize and appreciate them a lot more, I used to hunt 3-4 nights a week when I was younger and had more spunk before the real world came knocking and then a child entered the equation, it’s still my number one testing to do once a dog knows the basics and why we going to the woods, I’ve seen a lot of really nice dogs in the daylight be complete culls once the sun went down, i night hunt every chance I get, but it’s not often or at least as much as I’d like...


Tdog I’m in the boat myself about not being satisfied with the nose on my dogs during this time of the year, they have above average noses for cur dogs by seem to fall back on a race quicker this time of year and where I’ve done most of my hunting this summer is one of if not the nastiest thickest places I’ve ever encountered and once a slick boar pulls a truck or two after the dew burns off and the temp starts climbing out there they just have a hard time reeling him back in, adding the line of running walkers I did helped out with nose some but not much more, the track speed and control got better, I bred a full RW gyp to Bayou Cajun jack and kept a gyp that is one bad mammer hammer and is tough as a lighter knot with the nose I’m liking, I just haven’t figured a way to breed her into my line bred dogs, right now she is my better nose dog that I can pull out the box at 3am or 3pm and know I have a good a chance as any at getting the track going if she can smell it, but it’s not a trait in my cur dogs and once something happens to her I’m back to where I started,
 I got a half Cameron bluetick pup outta some other good dogs bred the rightway I’m thinking of incorporating into my pack, I keep trying to tell the young boys that I hunt with or they come get my dogs to quit be so critical on their dogs and talking smack about others this time of year bc come November when our winter season starts and goes to turkey season they’ll have to loosen their ball caps bc their head will be swollen, after turkey season closes there’s about a 2 month window where the conditions are still on our side then they’ll be b!tching about their dogs performance slowing down, I’ve been trying to teach them to read the signs of the land around them to get a feel on how running conditions are and what to expect, none of this gibberish matters if the dog can’t complete his job a consistently on each outing, I’m not into owning “help” dogs and have been keeping notes so I can see who was in there contributing or getting in the way, or just following the commotion and not contributing his share...

[t-dog]

I've found that there is a fine line between too little and too much on most things when it comes to ability. By that I mean too much nose that they try pushing a track that was made 2 days ago or aren't able to push one made 2 hours earlier. Track speed is another, if they are steadily having to restart a track or over run it then it doesn't do any good, they may as well be slower on it and stay steady. I think a lot of people think that because a dog is fast in a foot race that they are fast on track. That isn't the case. I have seen many fleet footed dogs get beat to the hog by a slower dog just because the slower dog could push the track so much better. Bite is another, I want baying dogs not catch dogs. I do want a dog to know when to pull the trigger and when to back up. I want them baying in front and biting to the ass. That hog knows he doesn't have teeth or any other defensive mechanism in his back end so when there is enough threat or damage being done back there, they turn to defend it. I have seen dogs that would hit a hog in the back end, but they couldn't stop them because all they were actually doing was pinching the hog. When I say bite I mean get a mouthful and set back and make porky understand they aren't asking they are telling him to stop. I understand the stock sense method and I'm good with circling as long as they can hold the hog at bay that way. Someone mentioned earlier that they liked their dogs to get out front of the hog and bluff them into stopping. That's their way of thinking and that works for them. I thought is this though. Most hogs, especially the bigger hogs are just like my 2 sons. They are gonna find out if you are bluffing so you better be able and willing to prove or show what you're saying. Also, that hogs teeth are on the head end, so if the head end is where he's going to bite and try to stop them at, he's gonna get cut. To me hogs and cattle are as different as curs and heelers. Cattle respond to head pressure where a hog is just the opposite. Poke a hog in the butt and it will do one of 2 things, sit down or turn around. Poke a cow in the butt and they move forward. There are times to bite up front and that's where intelligence factors in. My Raylynn gyp stopped a sow one day that was going up to leave the gulley we were bayed in. When the sow broke it put a couple other dogs between her and Raylynn. Of course they were right behind the sow trying to get to her but Raylynn being the athlete she is jumped over them to the opposite side and in just a couple hops it seemed was up the bank beside the sow and grabbed her ear, set back hard and jerked her around so that all she could do was fall back to the bottom. Raylynn was already out of the way and behind her before she knew what had happened to her. That's having brains and working ability in my opinion. Being able to adapt. I also watched her and a young dog bay a group under a big dead tree one day. They were constantly circling and a couple times a hog thought about leaving and one or both dogs would start to them and cause them to regroup. Again I think this is another one of those fine lines where you can have too much or too little. I'm with goose on brains and heart. If they have those 2 things it is a lot easier to accept some other short comings. I ain't trying to tell you your business goose, but if that plott/running walker gyp is that good, you better get at least a litter out of her before you can't. She has a hazardous occupation so tomorrow may never come. Just my opinion.

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[Judge peel]

One thing I have noticed over the yrs is dogs that really anchor down on the back end tend to get cut down more often and lose there teeth lol. I have seen hogs run off with my dog locked down on family jewelry and act like it didn’t even bother em. I think there is more to it then just bitting them some dogs are good at it and some are masterful at it and most just wont do it worth a darn. They will just run behind the hog and then some just latch on for dear life. That works but it has its limits as well. That track speed Tdog is a funny thing I seen way slower dogs beat a faster dog. Those hotter nose dogs will flat fly to a hog once there close enough to wind the hog. That one reason I prefer wind nose dog to a cold trailer. Some where in the middle is the sweet spot good enough to work some track but not waste 3 hrs on a old track and enough wind nose to catch a sent 800 yards away.


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[sacatchdog]

Hi tdog, dont know if i can put my 5 cents but we hunt bushpigs here in south africa and here we need various kinds of hounds and dogs in our pack! Here with us a chase can last for 500meters to 15kilometers. We have to have a few medium to cold nosed hounds, usually blueticks, to find the pigs wich takes us a few hours to half a day sometimes. Then we use some foxhounds , walkerhounds  and greyhounds wich are the more warm nosed hounds which job is to put pressure on the pigs so we can bay them long enough to put some catchdogs onto them! I use american bulldog crosses for running catchdogs but most of my colleuges only double up with a lot more hounds to bay the pigs and then shoot them! Needless to say, all our dogs must be able to do a lot of kilometers per day and they must have a lott of gritt and a clever dog goes a longer way as our bushpigs here are very agressive and its easy to lose a whole pach of dogs in a year!

[t-dog]

sacatchdog, your opinion is both welcomed and interesting! It's interesting to me to hear about other people's experiences and observations. Sometimes 2 people can be watching the same exact thing at the same exact moment and draw 2 different conclusions or remember it 2 different ways. People draw their own conclusions about things more times than not because of what they've experienced. That's why there there are so many variations to hunting styles and hunting dogs. It's been that away in game chickens, game dogs, race horses, performance horses, etc. I myself have had a bad taste in my mouth with 3 different breeds of dogs. There are good ones in all 3 of those breeds. I know because I've hunted with them. But because of my experiences with them as a whole, I don't want any of them on my feed bill. As for your type dogs over there, you said y'all hunt blueticks for nose and the hotter nosed dogs for speed once it's where they can smell it. Do you ever try to breed to increase the speed of the blueticks or the nose of the speedsters? Or do you just say this method works so don't fix what isn't broke?

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[t-dog]

Sacatchdog, do you think there is a best or most consistent method to getting the bush pigs to stop running? You touched on the two things I believe work best here and that is track speed and the other grit. I want both so I'm covered in either situation. 

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[bigo]

Hogs do respond to head pressure. You can't stop a sounder by biting hogs in the rear. Put a well bred stock bred pup in the pen with one pig and make it run, he may bite it on the butt or go to the head to stop it. Put the same pup in with five pigs and make them run and he will go to the front to stop them every time. I get more excited over a dog stopping a sounder that broke than stopping one hog that broke. Some of them old smart hogs will hand it to you no matter what you put on the ground, but if they stop the sounder, I know they have the stock sense I like.

[t-dog]

I agree with you bigo on the sounder responding to head pressure. I also think it's the difference in numbers that causes that. Again, an intelligent dog knows the difference in singles and multiple hogs and makes the necessary adjustments. I love to watch my dogs work. Depending on the situation, I will watch them as long as I can. That's when you learn about your dogs.

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[Judge peel]

That’s when you know you have a decent dog when it can stop a big running hog and bay a sounder of 30 by its self


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[Slim9797]

That’s when you know you have a decent dog when it can stop a big running hog and bay a sounder of 30 by its self


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By itself.... That's a prerequisite....I don't get paid because I'm good at what I do when I got a buddy to keep me company


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[t-dog]

Lol

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[Judge peel]

Lol that’s funny. That’s why I work alone people never can do what they claim. And the rare occasion they can they think there above the game and won’t take or follow orders.


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[Slim9797]

Personally above all else I like dogs that have manners. Just kind of naturally pick it up and choose not to do certain things, or atleast not make a habit out of them. I like dogs that are easy to own. I don’t want to have to be hollering at them to shut up in the pen. Or worried if I box the wrong 2 together if they’ll fight. I can kennel all 5 of my dogs, 3 males 2 females together, throw a line of feed on the ground and walk away with 0 worry. My 3 grown dogs, if I throw one of em on the truck and take em to the roping pen, I can let em down and know they aren’t going to go pick a fight with the neighbors dog or my buddies dog he brought, they aren’t going to jump on my buddies 3 year old little girl and knock her down. After that then we can talk ability, and yeah T dog I guess I am a big style guy. I believe stock sense is a lost art in most dogs these days. I believe even less dog hunters these days actually even know what that means let alone seen it in action. I want a better than average nosed smaller framed (40-55lb) cur dog, square head good ears and muzzle, with lots of trackspeed, the ability to put its nose in the dirt and grub on an old track and to stand on its hind legs and catch that hog in the wind and the mind to know when to do which. Enough bottom to really see if the hog is intent on running but not so much I’m consistently having to hit county roads to go pick up dogs. If they are bayed they better stay that way all day and tomorrow unless I call them out. I don’t like face barkers. Pretty easy for a hog to turn 180 degrees and exit the back door. Got plenty videos to prove it. I want a dog that understands it is much easier to bay 30 together than to bay 30, 1 by 1 over a few miles stretch, and act accordingly(STOCK SENSE DING DING). Last but not least they got to pay attention, they cant get so caught up in what’s right in front of em and go hog stupid that they become oblivious to their surroundings. That’s how you end up dead when it comes to baying and shooting.

My Sketch gyp at 3 years old, most days, is close enough to ideal for me. If you gave me the option of spending $50k on the best dogs I could find in the country, or owning 4 more just like sketch. I’m taking the 4 just like sketch with no hesitation. By no means would I have the best dogs in the scenario, but I would have exactly what I wanted, and they’d be the best there was to me. When you know what you want, and obtain it. You really quit caring about what joe blow up the road feeds or thinks about what you feed. Atleast I did


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