Gun breaking ???

[Slim9797]

Seen this and heard it a million times. “Better not shoot around my dogs or they’re headed for the truck” or actually shooting around someone else’s dog and they do in fact just shut down like you pulled the batteries out of their ass end. This is something that has actually been pretty mind blowing to me because I have never experienced it personally with any dog I’ve fed at any point. I wonder what yalls opinion on it is, why is it such a common thing? The most I have personally had a dog do was when I shot the hog over her she would make about a 10 yard loop around the hog and come right back and catch it. That lasted all of a month and then she was jumping on the hog as soon as I shot. And that dog was 2 years old by time I got her and had been passed around more than my ex girlfriend. And had never been shot around. And mind you I don’t start with a .22 or anything. First time my dogs hear a gunshot is a .44 over their head, in the woods with a hog standing in front of them. I had her for about a month I think before I carried her any where. I do this with most dogs. Let them settle in to me and new surroundings and make sure they can be handled and listen half way so they don’t put me in a bind.


So long winded I apologize, but I wonder what your guys opinion is as to why it’s such common place for dogs to just break in half mentally at the sound of a gun?
 I have an opinion but I will see if I get a few replies before I share mine


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[TheRednose]

I believe most of it comes down to the dogs natural disposition and then secondly exposure. Like most behavioral issues it comes down to a mixture of nature vs nurture. Some dogs will never be gun shy no matter how little they are exposed and some will be very flighty it just like personalities, there is a broad spectrum. Like some dogs are shy and take a while to warm up to you and some dogs are immediately your best friend, just depends on the dogs personality and secondly to its previous exposure. Most of the time if you expose them positively from a young age to it there are not as many problems.

[warrent423]

No guns allowed around my dogs. If "my" pistol comes out of the truck or off the wheeler, they know someone ain't coming home

[t-dog]

It's just the difference in dogs. My oldest son didn't like being around guns when he was little but loved hunting. Now he loves guns but he had to grow into it if you will. My dogs will leave if you shoot over them. I want them that way. I'm not gonna shoot over them and if someone else does I want them gone. Don't stand around and let them get a second shot at them or be there if they wound a hog only to get cut because joe blow made a bad shot over dogs he doesn't own. For example, we were just about 50 yards from a bay once. All of a sudden boom boom! We hit the dirt not knowing where it came from or if they were shooting at us or dogs or hogs. It turned out to be the neighbor of the guy we were hunting on. He heard the dogs bayed for a while so he decided he would come help us out! Pfffff, man you could've killed us or a dog just as easy as the hog you just missed. My dogs hauled ass after first shot but bayed the hog again a few hundred yards away. I would've been fine if they had gone to the truck. I've seen tough many dogs hit or killed by freak accident too. No thank you on dog hanging around for shot number 2. I think dogs are like people or horses in the sense that some of them are more sensitive than others to loud noises like that. I rode 2 mares back to back. The first one would've been fine in a mine field. The second though, you got one shot so you better make it count, lol.

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[Cajun]

Most all gun shyness is totally preventable if you just start them off as pups and shoot blanks or a .22 when you feed them. On bear I have seen pups never get over it if the hunter makes multiple shots say a bear on the ground. Normally a dog is leashed by the tree and one shot the bear comes down and the dog goes crazy wanting to get to it. Same with a hog if you can make the first shot good, most dogs learn when you shoot, it is time to jump on the hog or bear.  Been some dogs hurt that way also when said game is not dead. lol

[Reuben]

X2 on what Cajun said...when I raise pups they are about gun broke at 8 weeks old...they will come running to the sound of gunfire...I can totally break them to gunfire but I prefer to expose them to where they won’t run off once they go in the woods...and that is if I carry...
In reality if the dog isn’t shy or timid it will do fine in the woods just by us using common sense when shooting...

There was that thread about shyness and the same shy dogs are definitely the ones that are or will be sensitive to gunfire...

As a preventative when raising pups socialize them and rattle and drop pans around them like it is no big deal and they won’t be alarmed because we are not alarmed...if the alpha is relaxed they will follow suit...

That’s about how I see it...

[Slim9797]

I personally think it has to do with mutual trust and respect and and how you connect with the dog(s). I think the reason I have seen so many dogs of other peoples who are gun shy has alot to do with their mind set as a dog owner and "Hog Hunter”. Much more often than not, the only time most “Hog Doggers” dogs get out of the kennel is to go hog hunt. Personally don’t think you can build much if any of a bond and relationship with a dog that way and they don’t really get to see anything out of their element. I would like to think in most circumstance with most dogs, you could take a fairly gun shy dog, and by doing a few things, could gun break them without ever conditioning them to gun fire or loud noises. Pretty easy in my opinion to spot what I think is a dog who doesn’t trust and respect the man that feeds him, and with that I think dogs that are gun shy, crap in the dog box, dogs that you can’t catch etc. all falls back on the trust and respect deal. This is just my opinion from what I have seen and these kind of dogs with the kind of people I have been around and involved with. Would not be the first time i was wrong, and wouldn’t be the first time I continued to believe in something even though I was told it was wrong.
 



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[Reuben]

Good post Slim...

If we observe the mama dog when she creates a boundary or is correcting a pup (same thing) we will see that sometimes it can appear rather harsh but she applies the discipline necessary to make the correction...the puppies learn yet trust and respect the mama dog...so I follow her example and do the same with the pups and grown dogs...I am the alpha

Once in a while when correcting I will show and display anger when the offense was high so they understand it is not tolerable...but most of the time it is a quick ah ah ah and they immediately stop and almost like they get that mischievous grin or smile on their face and they come bounding to me looking for forgiveness...but I am making instant decisions...depending on the offense I might not let them come in to my circle for forgiveness as punishment...but in these cases there is no emotion just focusing on the correction...if minimal I let them in my circle and give them a little attention as a quick forgiveness and all is good...this is about how I do it to get the results I want...I am consistent so the dogs know how I operate...and I do the bare minimum to get the results I want...lol

So when the dogs trust and respect the alpha...the alpha can shoot and more often than not the dogs will look to the alpha and quickly see that he is not afraid of the gun and is in control and the dogs turn their full attention to the task at hand...because they trust...

Of course one must use common sense and watch when is it the right time to shoot and then fire up the dogs as soon as we shoot to re-enforce the desired results...

Now there are exceptions to some dogs...you inherent a shy dog and you might not be able to gain full trust...I won’t waste my time on that dog...

Sorry for the long post...but while it is easy it takes some time to explain...

[Goose87]

Good post Slim...

If we observe the mama dog when she creates a boundary or is correcting a pup (same thing) we will see that sometimes it can appear rather harsh but she applies the discipline necessary to make the correction...the puppies learn yet trust and respect the mama dog...so I follow her example and do the same with the pups and grown dogs...I am the alpha

Once in a while when correcting I will show and display anger when the offense was high so they understand it is not tolerable...but most of the time it is a quick ah ah ah and they immediately stop and almost like they get that mischievous grin or smile on their face and they come bounding to me looking for forgiveness...but I am making instant decisions...depending on the offense I might not let them come in to my circle for forgiveness as punishment...but in these cases there is no emotion just focusing on the correction...if minimal I let them in my circle and give them a little attention as a quick forgiveness and all is good...this is about how I do it to get the results I want...I am consistent so the dogs know how I operate...and I do the bare minimum to get the results I want...lol

So when the dogs trust and respect the alpha...the alpha can shoot and more often than not the dogs will look to the alpha and quickly see that he is not afraid of the gun and is in control and the dogs turn their full attention to the task at hand...because they trust...

Of course one must use common sense and watch when is it the right time to shoot and then fire up the dogs as soon as we shoot to re-enforce the desired results...

Now there are exceptions to some dogs...you inherent a shy dog and you might not be able to gain full trust...I won’t waste my time on that dog...

Sorry for the long post...but while it is easy it takes some time to explain...

You and slim both made some good points, the bond and trust plays a much more pivotal role
than a lot of folks may see and believe, my dogs definitely know I’m the alpha, I raise what I hunt and will give a correction when needed and how hard the correction depends on the offense, guy once told me I was going to make a dog fear me, thats the point, fear is respect, and every one of mine respects my authority but are loyal and love me beyond measure, I raise them just like I raise my son, with all the love I can give and will go to hell and back defending them but demand discipline and it all works itself out, I’ve never shot over my dogs until this past spring on those big Barrs bc luckily it was open enough, they never flinched when that .357 rang out and on the second hog they were baying tight and I was able to holler them back enough for a clean shot and they got quite for a second then bailed on him after the shot, it didn’t phase them a bit but like slim and you said they trust me and know I’m looking out for their best interest...

[cajunl]

My dogs are gunshy. You shoot they run to the truck. I want them that way. I promise it is not from "lack of trust" or "lack of training".

I havent shot a hog in 20+ years. Everyone I hunt with doesnt hunt with guns. If I hunt with people that are shooting hogs I leave mine at home or the box. One of my dogs I am hunting now was shot. I dont want my dogs out of the box with people shooting. If the dogs get beat we go home with out hat in our hand to hunt him again.

Hell I never carry a gun to the woods and in the truck is an old .22 with cb shots that i cant usually find the bullets for to shoot varmits. Guns last forever here at the house! LOL

Lots of different ways to hunt and your dogs should reflect that.

Some guys here shoot hogs in front of beagles.......id rather be fishing

[Cajun]

My dogs are gunshy. You shoot they run to the truck. I want them that way. I promise it is not from "lack of trust" or "lack of training".

I havent shot a hog in 20+ years. Everyone I hunt with doesnt hunt with guns. If I hunt with people that are shooting hogs I leave mine at home or the box. One of my dogs I am hunting now was shot. I dont want my dogs out of the box with people shooting. If the dogs get beat we go home with out hat in our hand to hunt him again.

Hell I never carry a gun to the woods and in the truck is an old .22 with cb shots that i cant usually find the bullets for to shoot varmits. Guns last forever here at the house! LOL

Lots of different ways to hunt and your dogs should reflect that.

Some guys here shoot hogs in front of beagles.......id rather be fishing

Same here Cajun!  I never carry a gun hog hunting and if the hog beats our dogs, there is always another day.  That being said I do understand in places where the landowner wants them dead, that is how some people do it.
  I do however want my dogs introduced to gunfire because I still bearhunt on occasion. I have seen beardogs ruined with poor shooting and it boogles my mind to know people can completely miss a bear in a tree or have to take multiple shots to finish one. It can ruin a young dog and I dont care how much the dog bonds with his or her owner. It would be a shame to have one of your best dogs come up gunshy when a little preventive training could have resolved it. jmo

[t-dog]

Lol that's how I operate too cajun. I hunted with a fella a few times that shot all his hogs. He had a real nice dog that stepped right out in front of the shot as the trigger was being squeezed. He was back out of the way and been shot over a million times. But, for whatever reason, anticipating the hog moving or whatever, wrong place at the wrong time and he was grave yard dead. The man was more than tore up over it. We went one day and a green bulldog of a friend caught his new main dog that was a real dark brindle in a real real bad thicket and on the ear lol. Well the dog got loose and went on hunting right away. The man said "that's why I don't use catchdogs"! Well his dog got over a that dog bite and was hardly worse for wear. His other dog didn't get over that bullet!

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[Reuben]

There for about 15 years I never used a bulldog and the dogs usually caught when I gave the command...that was before running vests and sometimes I got a dog crippled or worse...lots of times when I showed up they caught without a command...a couple times the hog walked away when he handed to the dogs more than they could handle...sometime in those 15 years when a hog walked off I bought a pistol and started shooting over their heads without ever a problem...I started making the dogs back up and now the dogs actually were safer because of it...these type of dogs catch when I’m not around to contain and control but were more careful about it if I wasn’t around...as we know those type of dogs throw caution to the wind when we arrive...
Even though they may be cautious when we aren’t around they can get caught in thick brush or against a dry creek bank etc...

When I was old enough to carry a 22 I shot many rabbits in front of my dogs...Remington semi auto 16 shot...dogs caught more than I shot and I would shoot within a couple feet a of a dog while running at max speed...never shot a dog in my 55 plus years of dogging...

[Goose87]

I don’t shoot over or around my dogs at all either, but when you have a once in a lifetime type catch dog caught on a 500+ pound hog and two men barely pushing 300lbs together, I promise it will change your outlook on not shooting around your dogs if you give a half a lick of care about your catchdog, Im not gna say I’ll “never” shoot around my dogs again bc if the situation arises again where I have a dog in a bind and the only option is to shoot the hog to save my dog or just say he was a good ole boy and go home with my tail tucked, I’ll swallow my pride and save my dog, it’s easy to sit back and say you’ll never do something until your in that type of situation, at home or any other time gunshots scare my dogs a good bit but not to the point of ruining one, I guess that night they trusted me to do my part just as they had done there’s and never missed a lick with a .357 going a few feet from them, and bailed on him as soon as he hit the ground as if we do that regularly...

[cajunl]

I bayed a good boar bear on the ground. He was wading through the Myrtles in the swamp and wading through my dogs too! Not gonna lie if it was legal and I had a gun I would have shot him! I was shaking so bad I probably would have missed too from 10 feet! LOL 

One day im gonna take them where I can kill a bear. I will gun break them for that!

20+ years Ive not taking a gun. One day I may change my mind. I doubt it though.

I hunt a lot alone. I can call my dogs off bayed hogs if the situation warrants. Makes it rough without a good handle on them.

[cajunl]

Some pretty good ones here!

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[t-dog]

That's a lot of beast!

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[Goose87]

I bayed a good boar bear on the ground. He was wading through the Myrtles in the swamp and wading through my dogs too! Not gonna lie if it was legal and I had a gun I would have shot him! I was shaking so bad I probably would have missed too from 10 feet! LOL 

One day im gonna take them where I can kill a bear. I will gun break them for that!

20+ years Ive not taking a gun. One day I may change my mind. I doubt it though.

I hunt a lot alone. I can call my dogs off bayed hogs if the situation warrants. Makes it rough without a good handle on them.

I don’t carry one on me in the woods, never have, not gna say I won’t one day, but always have one in my vehicle, I don’t even carry one in the boat or the buggy, and luckily that night we just so happened to be only about 50 yds from the truck, guess if Billy trained his catch dog to release on command it might’ve been different lol, a good bit of the places I hunt shooting over your dogs is not even an option, it’s just entirely to thick, no matter what type and style of dogs you feed, a lot of times it’s so bad you can’t see the hog until your right up on him to throw him, when we hunt my dads lease I let him sit at road crossings, with a shot gun just to let him have that brief moment where he can relive his most cherished past time running deer dogs his entire life but he hasn’t even shot at one yet, mainly bc it’s been to hot to deal with processing a hog and he gets that rush he used to get listening to a good race and doesn’t want it to end it, even though we’ve yelled at him on the radio to end the race once  ( code we used when we ran deer to shoot whatever they were running) his reply was “ it’s sounds to good, business has done picked up”,  I’m not condemning anyone one way or the other, just not my cup of tea,

[jsh]

 I don’t see what it really matters. I have dogs you can shoot over and dogs that don’t like it. The ones that you can’t are just as good of hog dogs as the ones that don’t mind it. No less trust and no less training it just happens to be how they are. Not really a big deal - if I want to shoot I use the dogs that don’t mind it and leave the others in the box.

Don’t really think anyone can or needs to make a generalization about the issue.

[Reuben]

Jsh, no problem some of us like getting into the finer details so we can better understand...