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Author Topic: Hard cull  (Read 913 times)
CutNShootHD
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« on: June 08, 2020, 06:31:08 pm »

I don’t know where to talk about this and not even sure if I should. Had to do my first hard cull this weekend on a dog I raised. Done a LOT of soft culling but this kinda messed me up. Yes I thought about it, if there was a different option. I’ve been ...off... all day over it.  No I don’t regret it. But I’m still sad. If you comment I may not reply, please don’t take it as rude. Thank y’all for taking the time to read this. Delete it if it’s not appropriate.
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Shotgun66
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2020, 08:38:08 am »

I see nothing wrong with discussing the topic. You are correct to be careful with how you choose your words on it. The fact that it bothers you simply shows you are a compassionate person. ASPCA, HSUS, and PETA probably “euthanize” more dogs than all of us combined.
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The brutal truth of it is that removing dogs from your kennel and/or breeding program is an absolute necessity if you want the best dogs you can acquire. Kennel space and woods time are precious, finite resources. We can’t waste time on sub par, inferior prospects.
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The manner in which you do it is a matter of personal choice. As long as there is no suffering or abuse involved, it’s not immoral.
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When I was young, euthanization did not bother me. As I have aged, I do everything I can to spay, neuter, and rehome if possible. I’ve gone to great lengths to do this for animals that were sub par performers but good natured animals who were not trouble makers. I will not pass a problem animal on to someone else.
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2020, 09:30:43 am »

Dawn, it’s all part of it sometimes. Unfortunately, for various reasons, there is no other alternative.
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Reuben
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2020, 11:27:30 am »

I see nothing wrong with discussing the topic. You are correct to be careful with how you choose your words on it. The fact that it bothers you simply shows you are a compassionate person. ASPCA, HSUS, and PETA probably “euthanize” more dogs than all of us combined.
-
The brutal truth of it is that removing dogs from your kennel and/or breeding program is an absolute necessity if you want the best dogs you can acquire. Kennel space and woods time are precious, finite resources. We can’t waste time on sub par, inferior prospects.
-
The manner in which you do it is a matter of personal choice. As long as there is no suffering or abuse involved, it’s not immoral.
-
When I was young, euthanization did not bother me. As I have aged, I do everything I can to spay, neuter, and rehome if possible. I’ve gone to great lengths to do this for animals that were sub par performers but good natured animals who were not trouble makers. I will not pass a problem animal on to someone else.
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Shotgun66, well said...

The goal is to breed the very best and increase the percentages of the good ones thus minimizing the percentages of low performers...
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WayOutWest
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2020, 12:08:07 pm »

After nearly 50 years of owning and breeding dogs it does not get any easier to do what's right.  I feel a strong responsibility to breed better dogs and not contribute to the population of poor dogs. It is the only reason I can cull if needed. I can't say it will get easier but doing the right thing rarely is easy.
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t-dog
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2020, 02:58:49 pm »

It always has helped me in knowing the animals fate. Dumping an animal out to starve, or get on someone's livestock to survive, etc. is the worst you can do to an animal short of intentionally starving or beating them to death. Animals are similar to people in the aspect of no matter what you do, you can't fix them. They just aren't wired right sometimes. For those types there's only one logical or right action. Biting dogs are a prime example. Being good hearted is a good thing as long as it isn't to a fault which could cause more problems and more severe problems. Keep your head up and just realize, the longer you're in the game the more likely you will have to make this decision again. Be proud that you did right by the animal, your pack, and yourself.

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make-em-squeel
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2020, 05:15:30 pm »

One thing I like to remember is that for every cull, there have been 6 to 9 good ones ive added to the world. Its also the only reason you buy a dog that does what the breed is supposed to do. Its not like these are pound pets were expecting to do something they were not bred for and then culling.
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Slim9797
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2020, 10:18:38 pm »

I’m kind of along the lines with Thomas. What your referring to as a “Hard Cull” is the only way I’ve ever culled. I knew before I got into dogs that was part of it, and it’s never really troubled me. Simply because I believe in it, I believe it is the best alternative for everyone involved. Done right, the dog never knows anything, I don’t have to feel bad about dumping it off on a county road and it getting hit on the next highway or sending it to somebody else only for them to either peddle it off to someone and rob them of their money, or then breeding it and peddling the pups off as barn burners. Or starving them and beating them or what have you.

   Half a second and it’s over. Solace for all involved.


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Goose87
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2020, 07:05:26 pm »

When I was younger I wouldn’t bat an eye as to removing and inferior animal from my ownership, as I get older and deeper into these dogs it definitely has gotten a lot harder, but it’s something that must be done and as Tdog and Slim mentioned I know the fate of the dog and find peace in knowing that animal was loved and taken great care of its entire life up until it’s final seconds, 99% of my dogs I raise from pups and 99% of the pups I raise are created and born right here under my oak trees and become part of my family, I create a unique bond with everyone of them individually and it’s a painful thing to have to do but must be done to set and maintain a high standard, I could be wrong but feel as if dogs can and do experience emotions just the same as us and won’t allow one of my dogs to be put through such things that come with hauling it off, selling it just to “recoup” my money, or pawning it off a wet behind the ears green horn who don’t know a hot dog from a hog dog, it’s to quick, easy, and morally and ethically responsible for yourself and the dog, last several years I haven’t had to cull one on account of just being a dud, usually just because I like things to be done certain ways and not all dogs meet my standards, the few I do decide that don’t meet the standards are given to some of my cousins that run deer dogs and I trust and respect their handling and raising, the prey drive is definitely locked into them genetically and we all know running deer seems to be much easier game for dogs to run lol I’ve had to do away with to many to remember to get where I’m at and knowing I’m willing to do what most can’t to achieve my goals and knowing my animal isn’t going to suffer in anyway and my breeding program just took another step forward brings me enough peace at mind to stabilize the emotions that come with having to do such things ...
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CutNShootHD
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 09:21:52 pm »

Thanks y’all. Still kinda sucks seeing the empty pen, but it was definitely best for myself, the pack, and the dog. I figured it would have to happen one day being in dogs. I know it’ll probably happen again. My goal is absolutely to have the best on my yard. Pretty don’t mean a thing. I haven’t bred anything in almost 8 years, tried last year but my gyp got a closed pyometra and I had to spay her.  Tried to wait for a good male to be available.  Sometimes things just don’t go as planned. I’ve got a decent crew going now, from 1 year up to 4 years excluding my 2 older dogs. We’ll see how they keep going and figure out what might make some pups. I don’t post much but there’s multiple folks on here that I sort of look up to.....several of y’all commented on this.  Really appreciate y’all, thanks for being here, for the good and bad.
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HIGHWATER KENNELS
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 06:54:59 am »

Thanks y’all. Still kinda sucks seeing the empty pen, but it was definitely best for myself, the pack, and the dog. I figured it would have to happen one day being in dogs. I know it’ll probably happen again. My goal is absolutely to have the best on my yard. Pretty don’t mean a thing. I haven’t bred anything in almost 8 years, tried last year but my gyp got a closed pyometra and I had to spay her.  Tried to wait for a good male to be available.  Sometimes things just don’t go as planned. I’ve got a decent crew going now, from 1 year up to 4 years excluding my 2 older dogs. We’ll see how they keep going and figure out what might make some pups. I don’t post much but there’s multiple folks on here that I sort of look up to.....several of y’all commented on this.  Really appreciate y’all, thanks for being here, for the good and bad.

I read where you said that u had to spay one of your females for a closed pyometra,,,   I had never heard of this before last yr when one of my plot gyps got an infection in hers and after 2 days of seeing her not acting right,, on the 3rd day when I come in from work,, I took her to a vet since she could hardly stand by herself..   She never made it off the vet table that night and she died at 3 1/2 yrs old... Terrible and big lost on my part for not thinking this was as serious as it was..   That vet told me that it is a situation that don't usually happen but he said for me to run antibiotics thru gyps after a heat cycle if you do not breed them ,,, and that would usually stop any possibility of infection being trapped inside and rupturing...It was a learning lesson for me at 44yrs old and have been raising dogs all my life … 
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CutNShootHD
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 07:17:37 pm »

High water kennel:
 
Yes sir if it had been an open pyometra I wouldn’t have spayed her. She got severely ill and had to be hospitalized for 5 days, kidney values went sky high, her white cell count was outrageous.  She had 2 more days to turn the corner or I was going to call it. She got a little better so I took her home and ran fluids, nice to work for the vet lol. We repeated bloodwork and her values were coming down but even working at the clinic 5 days of meds and IV and bloodwork gets expensive...  she’s still here so I’m fortunate.


I read where you said that u had to spay one of your females for a closed pyometra,,,   I had never heard of this before last yr when one of my plot gyps got an infection in hers and after 2 days of seeing her not acting right,, on the 3rd day when I come in from work,, I took her to a vet since she could hardly stand by herself..   She never made it off the vet table that night and she died at 3 1/2 yrs old... Terrible and big lost on my part for not thinking this was as serious as it was..   That vet told me that it is a situation that don't usually happen but he said for me to run antibiotics thru gyps after a heat cycle if you do not breed them ,,, and that would usually stop any possibility of infection being trapped inside and rupturing...It was a learning lesson for me at 44yrs old and have been raising dogs all my life … 
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Austesus
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2020, 11:49:31 am »

So far I’ve only had to do it once. The first dog I ever owned was my Bulldog Thorn that I’ve posted on here before. I got him as a puppy and raised him as a house pet, I didn’t start hunting with dogs until he was 2 years old, then he became a really good RCD. He was always great with other dogs until I got my first two hunting pups.

He bonded with them and was always watching them. Well my cousin had a dog that was aggressive to males, and my wife was holding the first puppy one day while thorn was on one side of her and my cousins dog was on the other. The dog growled at thorn, and he thought it was growling at the puppy and they ended up going at it pretty good. Several months after that my cousin got two more dogs that were supposed to be hunting dogs that were surrendered at the pound, he doesn’t hunt, he just liked em. Well one was some type of hound/bulldog cross. He was a big long legged dog and was male aggressive. Him and the other dog both jumped on my bulldog in the yard one day and were stretching him out. I ran out there and beat them like they’ve prolly never been beat before... After that my bulldog was changed, he was very alert around other dogs and would always try to hit first if things started getting tense. He ended up almost killing that hound/pit dog a few months after that. If I hadn’t have seen it happen he would’ve killed him.

After that he was still good with the dogs that I raised around him from pups. Him and my old Dum Dum dog were best friends. When I was overseas my wife had them inside in crates. They both got out one night while she was at work and about killed each other. I though both of Dum Dum’s front legs were broke and thorns head was literally almost the size of a watermelon it was so swollen. After that I never let them around each other at the house, only while hunting.

I have kennels on the back corner of my house, and then further back past that I have a single chain that Thorn was on. My wife was complaining about having him on the chain so like an idiot I let her have her way and put him in my fenced in pool area. He ended up getting out and locked up with Dum Dum through his kennel and killed him. When I got home and realized what happened I put Thorn down. It was hard because there were multiple things over several years that led up to that, that were learning lessons for me and could have been avoided and potentially had none of this happen. After watching my security camera footage I also wonder if Thorn might have gotten rabies. The attack was unprovoked and he went back multiple times even after Dum Dum was dead. At first I thought a coyote or a stray might’ve done it, thorn was laying in a bundle of wheat straw about 20ft away when I got there so I didn’t see him at first. He never got up, never wagged his tail, or anything. I walked up to him and he just looked up at me for about 30 seconds with this look of sorrow, and then looked down right before I put him down. Idk if he understood what he had done and knew that there was no going back, if he was sorry about it, or what. I’ve never had a dog give me a look like that before and it gave me chills. That dog was like a son to me and used to go all over the place with me. That was the only time ever that I can think of where he didn’t immediately get excited or start wagging his tail and want to play when he saw me.

I still think about that situation all the time, losing both of those dogs in the same day ruined my team as well as they were my two favorite dogs. But I know it was a learning lesson and that I did what I had to. I vowed that day that I’ll never keep a dog on my yard that is aggressive like that again.


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The Old Man
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2020, 04:11:07 pm »

It is a necessary part of any performance program related to k-9's, if you are going to have and raise them of any quality.
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