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Author Topic: Culls?  (Read 654 times)
hyan
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« on: August 09, 2020, 07:14:43 pm »

How long before you can tell a dog is a cull?
I had a guy tell me he’s such a bad ass he can tell if a dogs a cull after 2 hours. I thought you had to get a dog used to you and your pack before you could make a decision on a dog. Anyone else buy a dog before and with in 8 hours of picking the dog up you hunt it for 5 mins and can tell if a dogs a cull? Or is this guy just better then 99% of hunters I know? I usually give the dog a little time but What the hell do I know.


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WayOutWest
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2020, 09:16:06 pm »

I  bet that guy has a lot of culls.
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hyan
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2020, 09:42:37 pm »

I  bet that guy has a lot of culls.
Yup said he culled a dog two weeks ago that can do twice as much as my dog
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hyan
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2020, 09:43:49 pm »

I  bet that guy has a lot of culls.
Guess that meant he hunted it for 10 minutes instead of 5 lol


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gary fuller
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2020, 09:58:31 pm »

ive known quite a few guys who have no patience at all with dogs and call a lot f dogs culls of they dont  act exactly like they want  basically as soon as they get the dog. i traded a dog i just had got to a friend who picked him up on a friday and i called him sunday night to see how the dog was acting at his house, he had taken the dog hunting friday night and saturday at his ranch and as he wouldnt do anything at the bays he shot him on sunday morning. i personally think the dog would have turned on as i just had him a few days myself when i traded him.
sounds like the guy you spoke of is either   very picky, has no patience, or is full of crap.
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hyan
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2020, 10:02:15 pm »

ive known quite a few guys who have no patience at all with dogs and call a lot f dogs culls of they dont  act exactly like they want  basically as soon as they get the dog. i traded a dog i just had got to a friend who picked him up on a friday and i called him sunday night to see how the dog was acting at his house, he had taken the dog hunting friday night and saturday at his ranch and as he wouldnt do anything at the bays he shot him on sunday morning. i personally think the dog would have turned on as i just had him a few days myself when i traded him.
sounds like the guy you spoke of is either   very picky, has no patience, or is full of crap.
See I think that’s bullnumber 2 and would have bin pissed. A bag of feed is $20 if someone  can’t give the dog at least 1 bag to see if it would work for then they shouldn’t be hunting. I have never had a dog hunt for me badass right out the box especially if I only had the dog for 8 hours and threw it in the woods expecting it to do what it’s bin doing for the owner who had it for years.


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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2020, 10:11:38 pm »

He himself is probably the cull. There are culls out there no doubt. Some people call a dog a cull if it works but isn't quite the style they prefer. Other people call a dog a cull that won't perform at all. Dogs are like people in the sense that what makes one tick might not make the next one and if you have enough sense to take the time to figure it out, the best one might be the one that it took a different approach for. Everything learns in a different way. Some dogs are excellent judges of character and just won't work for a dip sh!+!!!

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gary fuller
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2020, 10:27:16 pm »

ive known quite a few guys who have no patience at all with dogs and call a lot f dogs culls of they dont  act exactly like they want  basically as soon as they get the dog. i traded a dog i just had got to a friend who picked him up on a friday and i called him sunday night to see how the dog was acting at his house, he had taken the dog hunting friday night and saturday at his ranch and as he wouldnt do anything at the bays he shot him on sunday morning. i personally think the dog would have turned on as i just had him a few days myself when i traded him.
sounds like the guy you spoke of is either   very picky, has no patience, or is full of crap.
See I think that’s bullnumber 2 and would have bin pissed. A bag of feed is $20 if someone  can’t give the dog at least 1 bag to see if it would work for then they shouldn’t be hunting. I have never had a dog hunt for me badass right out the box especially if I only had the dog for 8 hours and threw it in the woods expecting it to do what it’s bin doing for the owner who had it for years.


we are good friends and hes some older than me and i knew he was short fused but not that bad. ididnt put ay strings on the dog and i should have it seems. but he wont ever get a dog from me again.


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Reuben
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2020, 09:35:06 am »

On mtn curs...you can buy a two year old as good of hog dog you ever seen...but when hunted with someone new it takes a while to get them to hunt...but once they do they will start pretty good and in a few hunts be back to top form...

The length of time has more to do with the dog trusting the new owner...the focus should be in getting that trust first and the hunt will follow...

Some dogs don’t need that trust...but they all vary...
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The Old Man
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2020, 12:30:36 pm »

To remedy that issue, I refuse to sell a working dog to someone I don't know real well unless they  come "here" and see it perform and they may come as many times as they like. I want them to leave satisfied with the dog or sure they don't want it either way it is a done deal and no reason for complaints, don't sell many working dogs anyway when I keep one here he usually lives and or dies here..     I haven't bought a working dog in over 40 years but if I was going to I would go and try him with the owner, and observe how he was used and handled to see if it would fit my deal, probably more than once.
If I was going to breed to someone's male I would much rather see some pups out of that male perform than see the male himself operate. Other than one AI mating I did a couple of years ago I haven't bred to an outside male in a long long time, I had not saw the dog I got semen from operate nor had he ever been bred but I knew the line of dogs and the man that owned him "that's one of the advantages of a solid, line bred strain of dogs", only got two of them raised and the one I kept has made a real nice dog, it is the one I told about some time ago that a bear carried him up a tree and he fell a long ways, he was also rigging, running and baying hogs alone by 14 mths old so I considered it a successful breeding, I have just bred him to his first female so we'll see how he produces.
Also mentioned some time back that when I sell any pups in the future I will receive the full amount ahead of time and they will have 2 weeks to pick pup up from when I tell them they are ready of forefit the price paid for the pup, I don't like the hassles that can come with dealing with people that believe they can just change their mind or back out per their whims so these are the ways I have elected to get around the trouble. If that makes me an hole in the butt that is okay, I'll be a happy rather than frustrated hole in the butt.
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The Old Man
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2020, 12:33:09 pm »

I lied, I did haul a Dogo female about a year and a half ago and bred her to a real nice dog.
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justincorbell
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2020, 06:50:09 pm »

Luckily it's been at least 10 years since I've had that issue. The last adult dog I purchased was at least 8 years ago now and I had hunted with him 100 times before I bought him. Since then I've been lucky enough to stay in dogs, primarily through raising pups.... It's a whole different headache but it beats dealing with that nonsense.  We will be starting 5 of that dogs grandpups this coming season come to think of it. Can't wait!

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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2020, 07:35:21 pm »

What the Old Man describes is how I bred myself into a corner with a good family of catch dogs. I got tired of giving pups to people only for them to not know what they were doing or not caring enough to give the dogs a fair shake. They would end up dead or I would get them back,  nurse them back to health, or just plain teach them manners and social skills. I consider myself pretty good natured until someone won't let me be. Doing my dogs this way is letting me be. I couldn't afford to keep enough dogs to keep the line going and they lived long lives usually so pups weren't needed or I didn't have a vacancy. Stupid is everywhere these days!

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Black Streak
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2020, 09:53:23 pm »

A cull varies from one person to the next.    What some people will accept or tolerate, others will not and emediatly consider the dog a cull for traits or behavior it exhibits.      Things like skittish or aloof  are traits I absolutely don't like  and can emediatly be seen.   Physical traits can emediatly be seen.     Flat footed dogs, cow hockey, under bite, eyes that don't reflect light at night often seen in blue eyed dogs,  etc etc.         Knowing a breed standard and judging dogs by it can quickly determine a dog not within the standard which encompasses everything from looks, behavior, color, movement and more.     A dog thats been neutered is an emediate cull to me do to the health problems that dog is more than likely going to incounter.         An experienced dog that doesn't hunt off the truck and just lays down all the time is to me a cull.  This doesn't take hours to see in a new dog.  This can be observed almost emediatly.     
       Pups on the other hand should not be culled for this as most will go on to exhibit this behavior with minimal to some hunting experience.         Puppies at play with one another that fight the rear instead of the head are culls (catch dog pups)             A ton of stuff can be seen emediatly for those with understanding and an eye for things.    Other things such as a dogs desire to hunt for its new owner in my opinion should not be culled so quickly.     Sometimes trust and respect must be in place before a dog will hunt for just anybody.        I have a comical story about one of my dogs holding a pig but wouldn't allow a guest to leg the pig it was holding and  allowed the pig to trot over to me about 150 yards away where I was tying another pig  held by a different dog.  When that pig reached me, my dog held it in place there.        I doubt anyone else could take that dog without me and go catch pigs with him the first day or two before building a bond with the dog.              Sooo much stuff can be emediatly seen but, some stuff takes time to see.         Learned behaviors should not be culled for quickly  but inherited traits can and should.   
       One should not confuse breeds with types.  There are no breed standards for types. 
A dogs hunt style may be appropriate and appreciated by some and scoffed at by others.    Is this a cull?     Well to some it is but to others its a great dog but just more appropriate for someone else.   
      What is a cull?      A cull is safely anything that doesn't fall within the breed standard.     Others my define it further down than that.           For types, there is no breed standard and a cull is safely determined by that of the breeder and their standards I would say
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Reuben
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2020, 09:39:45 am »

This happens often enough in cur breeds especially some strains of mtn curs...and it is usually the better and more intelligent ones...they seem to be a little shy around strangers but can be tough on dangerous game...these won’t hunt for strangers sometimes for several months...but when they do accept the new master they can put on a clinic...I believe they length of time it takes for these type of dogs to accept a new master has a lot to do with the new master’s experience on how fast he can win the dog over...

As I already mentioned this trait seems to coincide with intelligence and hunting ability...

He is an observation...you can spend lots of time, work and money testing pups for natural ability...keeping half the litter, and thoughtfully line breeding and inbreeding for 6 and more generations the very best pups in the litter...yet others may not realize the time and effort involved and will not fully appreciate the labor of love...and they will treat the pup as any other pup or dog...some of this has to do with not knowing what a good dog is or not knowing how had a good dog is to find...

I am one of those guys that does not take me long to decide on a dog...I like raising my own so I can observe their demeanor, how they think and operate...I look for natural inclinations...over time that begets more of the same...

Finding a good line of dogs is not easy...

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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2020, 01:19:25 am »

Great topic! I have hunted with many that avoid the subject!
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2020, 05:53:48 am »

Black Streak or anyone else - question: what are the complications you refer to in regard to neutering?  I ask because I have some cut males and have never heard this before.  Not trying to get into a debate - it’s an honest question.
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Slim9797
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2020, 08:31:48 am »

Personally I can be around a dog for a very short time and be pretty confident in making a decision on whether or not that dog has the mentality needed to do what I ask a dog to dog, I think that’s probably a lot of people. But as far as making a call as a straight up cull or not (defining cull as a dog who lacks either the ability or drive to hunt and be successful solo), I’ve watched the best dog men I know put lots of feed in to dogs that didn’t make the cut.
   
   I’ve “Culled” dogs with in a week of getting them, but it wasn’t because they were 100% sure a cull. It was because I didn’t like them.

Also, for arguments sake. I am of the opinion that “Culling” a dog is done one way and one way only, and that is turning his lights off for good. Getting them fixed and sending them somewhere isn’t culling, it’s pawning a POS dog off.


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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2020, 09:53:58 am »

Many dog folks will feed lots of tracks to make a dog, I will not do that...I like a pup or dog that has natural tendencies to hunt as I like...just like some dog's brains click the first time they wind a hog a quarter mile away, and then you have those that their brain does not click on an easy hog close by...I watch closely for natural born abilities because it is easier hunting this type of dog...I like the the idea that the few dogs in my back yard to be potential breeders as well...

Puppies...I am careful in exposing them to certain conditions but if I ruin a pup while working on  imprinting it to certain conditions I will feel bad for loosing the pup...but I will take those chances because I want to see what type of mentality the pup has...common sense and experience can tell us how much pressure to apply...if the pup can’t handle it I want to know early...I like a pup to have determination to stick with it...and it will continue through out it’s life as a hunting dog...

The good thing about culling early (pups) is that in most cases the pups are not culls...it’s just making an attempt at selecting the best as early as possible...hopefully picking the cream of the crop...

Setting up scenarios that are exciting for the pups is key...

I don’t baby them but I want them to love and trust me...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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