Grit

[l.h.cracker]

Something that hasn't been discussed in a while."Grit".How much Grit if any at all do y'all prefer.I know some like a totally loose dog and some like straight catch and I understand both.I respect any Man who is successful and any method they use to be successful in the sport.

I personally prefer dogs that are catchy but smart.I have owned a lot that were suicidal and saved many a dogs lives in the field and caught a lot of hogs with dog's like that.I have also owned loose baying dogs that would hardly put a tooth in a hog and caught hogs like that.I now have dogs that are what I prefer and have learned exactly how they work and utilize it.I only own one dog that ever gets cut and it's my Rye gyp she's bred extremely tight and she's got a few screws loose to be honest I believe she likes to get in a real knock down dragout and for that reason I no longer hunt her really.The style I prefer are the ones I run they're catchy but know when to back up and when to catch they also know how to catch without taking any damage it seems like they're always aware of where I am and what to do accordingly if that makes sense.For instance if I spot a hog and send em and they know I'm right there to back them up they'll catch a giant like a couple months back when they sucked up that big Barr with big teeth or 2 weeks ago they caught that decent boar because I was close and he was trying to get across the marsh so they put the brakes on his butt.On friday they bayed that rank boar who was smaller but had bigger teeth and was posted up in cover.If they're way out they'll bay a 75lber and not burn themselves out but the hog had beeter not move If I get close they catch so that's why I prefer to send a bulldog from 100+ .I don't need to use one but I like a good bulldog and I feel it preserves my cur dogs by not forcing them to do all the catching.Another interesting thing I have learned is that their less interested in smaller hogs not that I don't catch Small hogs and if that's all that's around then they're all over it but if I leave them and don't go to them they'll move up in size.Example a few weeks back we were hunting and I invited my Buddy who I have a ton of respect for and a lot of my dogs actually go back to his way back.So anyway We wind some hogs way out like 850yds jump the hogs and they run right by us about 100yds away and we hear it's a few hogs and heard a good hog blow it was really thick dog fennel and stuff and could hear them busting it.So my dog comes by on there tails they get about 650yds past us and he catches one these are public land hogs and sounders very rarely bay anyway he catches one and it started squealing my old Buddy says he has one let's go and I said no let's make him get the boar so I didn't start the boat after a minute he didn't hear me and knew what I was thinking so he left that one he circled back to the right and 500 more yds he catches another same thing hogs squealing and my buddy says we're going to this one right? I said man we heard that boar hog blow let's make him go on so I don't fire the boat up and he knew I wasn't coming so he rolled on a mile later he sits up bayed and my Buddy says I be damn I said we got him now and sure enough it was a good boar about 185# that we cut and released.I was sure happy it worked out and I didn't look like a fool but it really is just spending a lot of time in the woods and getting to know my dogs and them me.I can also tell by the locate bark if it's a good hog and here them putting teeth in one to stop it with another crazy sounding bark scream growl.For me grit is necessary because of the places I hunt like deer dog leases and public land with few hogs and dang bad running hogs.I do know that guys that are successful with loose dogs and straight catch dogs in these places I just prefer something right in the middle.Sorry for the long-winded write up and stories but I feel like real life examples explain what I am talking about.This is the FL Cracker Cur to me or at least what I expect out of one.Not by any means saying that they're the best just the best suited for me and my style of hunting I have found.

What are y'all's preferences and why?I know local breeds bred for the area and needs of the locals who bred them always seem to be best.

[Shotgun66]

You have some dam nice dogs Cracker. If they are able to stay alive in the gator infested swamps you hunt, they must be smart and tough.
-
I prefer the loose bay dogs that won’t catch at all for a few reasons.

1) I like to hear a good bay. Watching a dog get piggy, take off, work a thicket until it looks like an etch & sketch screen, and fall bayed is the funnest part of hog doggin to me.

2) I hunt alone most of the time. I walk hunt some thick country and it normally takes me at least 20 or 30 minutes to get to a bay. Average distance is between 3/4 & 1.5 Miles. I feel like that’s too long & far to leave a dog or dogs caught. Particularly in the summer.

3) I like to run bay dogs solo. It makes them a more balanced dog and it’s less for me to keep up with. As a solo hunter, I have learned the hard way how difficult it is to tend to wrecked dogs a mile deep in the woods. I have packed out my share of wrecked, exhausted, & overheated dogs. At 46, I can still do it but it dam sure ain’t as fun as it used to be!

4) I’m a tight wad and absolutely loathe vet bills! I know it’s part of it but I don’t like having to be a vet tech on a hunt. It shuts everything down and takes the fun out of it for me.

5) I lost a really nice gritty dog that I had raised and trained from a pup in November of 2018. He was 4 years old, in his prime and really turning the crank. Smart dog with an excellent handle. He had the kind of grit you described your dogs as having. He pressured hogs and wanted to catch but did NOT bust bays. He tried the wrong boar and I lost him. I put blood, sweat, and tears into that dog. I decided that day that I was not going to run anymore gritty/catchy bay dogs.


I have recently started hunting off horseback. I could probably catch more hogs if I ran a pair of catchy dogs. I wouldn’t get as much satisfaction from it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[l.h.cracker]

Shotgun what kind or line of dogs you running?

[Shotgun66]

I run a David Thoms bred Red BMC bay dog. Rousty. He will be 5 years old in May. Loose bay, medium range hunt, miles of bottom, prefers to wind but will trail. 100% silent until he is facing the hog or group. If they break, he swings out and goes to the front of them. Stays bayed with until I get there or call him off. He relays on groups. Normally bays mature hogs. I would describe him as a finesse style stock dog that hunts & finds. His biggest fault is that he is a little quirky when hunted in new territory or with strange dogs.
-
I run a 3/4 bulldog 1/4 staghound catch dog. Sassy just turned 4 in October. I use her as a lead in and off the leash as an RCD in open country. She has a good balance of brains, desire, & ability. Her biggest fault is adrenaline management when leading her into bays from a long way out. She can get overly excited and hurt her stamina for the rest of a hunt.
-
I don’t hunt them on the ground together. I normally run the bay dog solo & lead her in or just run her solo off the lead. Both dogs can rig hogs. She will find her own in fresh sign as well. He will help her catch on big hogs.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shotgun66]

This was Jake. The gritty dog I liked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[l.h.cracker]

Really nice dogs I really like your Red dog Rousty he sounds like a gooden.

[Cajun]

Cracker, I love a gritty smart dog but the smart part does not always go with Plotts. I don’t bear hunt near as much as I used to and I don’t need that much grit for hog hunting. I really starting rethinking this a few years ago when I lost 3 young dogs in Feb. to hogs. 2 died at the Vet and one never made it there. I try to watch how I pair them up and try not to turn two catchy Plotts out together. The problem is when you are hunting with friends and you get too many dogs on the ground. Another factor is I love to hear a good race and that means 3 or 4 Plotts down. Also like Shotgun said, when they catch a good one out a ways from you they get butchered up by the time you get there. I would much rather the bulldog do the catching. First pic. My Clyde and Jack caught this 225# hog and held him for about 15 minutes till we got there. 2nd pic. my Dancer female and Flash caught this boar and I could tell he was dragging them around so I turned Bosco (Plott) loose and he was anchored. There are more but we had more dogs down. I have a female that I have to hunt by herself are she will catch anything.


The pic. With the two mean looking dudes with shades on, that hog on the upper right was caught with 3 Plotts. Also like Shotgun said, I hate paying Vet bills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NLAhunter]

I like a dog that has enough grit to get one stopped then get back and bay need to be smart enough to know what they need to do to keep the hog there if they need to bay real loose cause the hog just sitting there and not moving or nothing that's what I want them to do if the hogs moving around and trying to break they need to tighten up and be ready to put the ivory to em if they have to to keep him there till I get there with bulldog I really like em to bay a 5 lb pig just like a 500 lb boar hog I have hunted rough catchy and straight catch I like em to bay till I get there with bulldog if I was in it for hog eradication I would hunt on my horse with pack of rough catchy dogs and bulldog following me but that ain't how I like to catch em I like to bay em and catch em if some get away they just get away I still got a older male he has lightened up some in his older age he will get real rough if he has to has has got wrecked a bunch though the years but I have caught lot hogs with him I put bay vest on him and hunt him we got older gyp here that will not lay tooth on hog no matter size real real loose baying gyp I have caught a train car load of big boar hogs with just her and bulldog it's 1000 different ways to do it probably none no better than other ways that's just way I like to catch em

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[t-dog]

I have hunted several styles too. I would say my preference is most similar to Cracker’s. Our hogs are super wild track stars then there’s the other variable of there being so many hogs. I prefer quiet tracking dogs even though I LOVE the sound of a hound. It excites the heck out of me when I get a pup that has a bawl type mouth at the bay. If you find a hog(s) here you better get him shut down or you better have your traveling shoes on. They will also brush you off on other hogs. They don’t usually have to go too far and you can get brushed off on a fresh hog(s). Smarts are probably top of the list after want to for me. We have lots of pasture land but lots of woods too. It can take a while to get to them sometimes so I don’t really want them to catch unless it’s something small that they can take out pretty quick. I’ve also seen more hot dogs that were catchy than any other style. I LOVE to watch my dogs work, from start to finish it fascinates me. I want the type that if they can get to a hog without putting themselves in a bad spot, to chew the back end out from under the hog. Pinching and nipping back there only pushes a hog but grab and hold until it squats or faces up. I also got tired of not being able to go hunting whenever I wanted because my dogs were all injured. The problem I found too with the rough cur types was commitment. When they started getting roughed up pretty bad they would quit and leave their buddies hanging. There wasn’t a lot of smart to them. They were like gangbangers, they were bada$$e$ once they thought the numbers were on their side and couldn’t deal with it when it got hot in the kitchen. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of them were die hards but a lot weren’t. I have also hunted dogs that were too loose. They would be so far back that the bulldog had to find it when you sent it in to catch. For my ideal dog I want super fast tracking dogs, that bite hard to the rear, and are smart/ hog wise dogs. I like them to catch in the back end when my bulldog is on the head. It seems to help a lot and the bulldog doesn’t seem to take as much punishment. I don’t have any trouble getting ahold of the hind legs except for having to dig them
out from under the hog because they are sitting on them. My dogs are usually gone as soon as I put hands on the hog so I don’t have to worry about getting bit by accident either. It’s a real fine line of too much and not enough bite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hoghunter71409]

I run two dogs at a time...anymore than two and they seem to get to rough.

I would like for my dogs when hunted in a pair, to catch anything under 75 lbs.  Sometimes that works well and sometimes it doesn't.  Most of the places I hunt are extremely thick and it may take a while to walk in with catchdog or drive around.  In those cases, I wish they would just bay anything at any weight.

I dont want my dogs trying to catch big boars and barrs...that's why I feed a bulldog.

I've been hunting long enough to say, I do this for fun and to put meat in my freezer.

I always want to catch a hog but, I would much rather go home with all my dogs healthy and intact.   If I have to give up a little grit to be able to return to the woods the next day with my entire pack, I'm fine with that.

I'm not here to impress anyone so, if my dogs are not as gritty as someone else's, that's fine with me.

IMO, dogs that apply less pressure tend to keep a hog bayed better than dogs that are always grabbing.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[BA-IV]

I hate running shoats around in the woods all day but when it comes to a big hog, EITHER be all in and catch or bay it, anything else is gonna bust the bay and they already run hard enough as it is. No reason to push em to run more in my opinion.

But you hunt with what you got and I’ve got a nice young male that is way to rough for his own good. He’s been gutted and cut down so bad I didn’t think he’d make it, but he has and learned a LITTLE bit but I can guarantee he’s gonna bust a few bays and most probably die getting rough with the wrong hog.

[NLAhunter]

I to think it is a very fine line there for me with to much grit and or not enough and I think ba is right to if they want to get up there and bite on a bayed hog they need to just go on and catch itnot not not just nip at it till he runs or just get back and bay him I have hunted a few rough dogs that were pretty smart one ol yella dog if hunted by himself would get back and bay until he seen you or something else got there and then he was fixing to latch on a ear and you needed a break stick to get him off caught lot hogs with him and seen him bad jacked up he had scars from tip of his nose to his tail he lived a long time caught lot of hogs

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[l.h.cracker]

I agree with everything said so far.I don't wanna run a soft hog for miles and hrs and I don't want to be saving dogs lives everytrip any more either.For me that perfect balance comes from stock sense and knowing how to control the situation.When to lay teeth ,when to back up and when to catch out.I also believe that a big part of that stock sense is always knowing the handlers position and acting accordingly if I'm a mile away don't try to hold a 50# hog by the ear for 30 minutes back up but don't let him move I can't stand dogs that overheat and quit by trying to catch out and not knowing I'm not coming for quit awhile.Like I said earlier I have one gyp that manages to get cut on every hog my Rye gyp and for that reason she's in early retirement.Hambone has only been cut by one hog and it was his first he found solo, Cypress same thing she has had a few teeth knocked out but that's about it My old Holly dog only got one good cut that I can remember too and Copper hasn't had a scratch yet but I'm sure it's coming.Im sure if I never used a bulldog the story would be different but if they're backed up baying there's a reason and I send help.

[t-dog]

I told part of this story in another thread recently but I’m gonna use the other part of it for an example in this one. My nephew lost his pit/lab catch dog a couple months ago to a baaad 180# tush hog. The hog made the other guys catch dog quit. When we originally got to the bay, the dogs were baying from 15 or 20 feet off the hog. I was literally 10-15 yards away and the curtains of briars were so thick that I couldn’t see but parts of the hog. I couldn’t give a size estimate but I could smell you boar. We sent both catch dogs one stopped right as he started in because he couldn’t see the hog. My nephews went in and he was looking and finally spotted him. He was all tangled in briars when he engaged the hog and that’s when he took his cutting where the vest stops under the neck. Then the hog broke and came within a few feet of me and as soon as he hit the opening the bay dogs had turned him, that was probably less than a 80 feet out. The second bulldog hit then and the hog thrashed him. Not a cut but a butt whoopin for sure. He backed up to bay and the hog broke and ran about 15 or so feet and both of my gyps hammed him. He squatted and turned but they were back out of the way already. That gave my nephews dog time to get there. As soon as he engaged the hog my gyps hammed him again and he was caught. The other bulldog then eared up too. Them being smart enough not to get cut or be in harms way and not pressure the hog in the thick stuff kept them uncut. Knowing when to pull the trigger got the hog stopped when the opportunity came about and allowed the fading bulldog to make the catch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[l.h.cracker]

T-dog I had a ass end gyp for a few years she bayed loose but would literally Barr a Boarhog if he ran or when the other dogs caught.Several boars I caught with her I would just pull their nuts off cause they'd be dragging the dirt.She definitely stopped hogs and like you said they'd be sitting down when I got there I'd have to lift them by the tail to leg them.

[Austesus]

I like them to be extremely rough but not suicidal. I think a lot of it is based around your style of hunting though. My old Dum Dum dog only backed up a handful of times in his life, and those were big nasty boars and he was solo. The second another dog was there he was caught. He very rarely got cut and when he did it was never anything serious. He would grab the ear and then lay against the side of the hog so they couldn’t get to him with their head. He would hunt around 250-300yds away from me and if he was further than 300 he was without a doubt on a track or winding a hog. He worked really well for me because he was 100% silent so he would normally catch them by surprise and stay reasonably close to me. I heard him bark only a handful of times. A few times when he was a puppy and would do a lost bark if he was out by himself, then he would calm down and figure out how to track back. Other than lost barks, he only barked at a hog two times that I know of. One time he winded a whole sounder (first time he ever saw a sounder) and he started chopping for about 10 seconds and then hung a big boar from the group that I guessed to be around 225lbs. The second time was right before he died and he was getting a little smarter, he ran a track solo and stopped a boar that was about 180lbs with some shanks hanging out of his mouth. I heard Dum Dum let out one single bark and then heard nothing, we got there within 4-5 minutes with some other dogs and as soon as he saw he had help he nailed the boar. I looked him over and found one tiny nick on his shoulder where the boar must’ve hit him. It was in some real thick briars where he wasn’t able to move real well too.

He would also turn around and come back if he didn’t have a pig stopped by the time he hit 1.3 on the garmin, which always worked great for me because I usually walk hunt and didn’t want to go 5 miles through a swamp trying to get to caught dogs. He was just getting in to his prime when he got killed in a dog fight with my bulldog Thorn. They had fought several times and had torn each other up pretty bad a few times. I only turned them out together hunting and they were fine, at the house and in the box they stayed separated and that was working well. Fast forward and my wife decided she didn’t want the bulldog on the chain and put him in a big fenced in area I have. He got out in the middle of the night and went to Dum Dum’s kennel and they locked up through the hog panel fencing and Dum Dum couldn’t move with his head pulled through it. Felt like I had lost a child. I went back and watched the security camera footage to figure out what happened and it tore me up. That bulldog was the first dog I ever had and I loved that dog but I killed him on the spot and made a promise to myself that I would never let someone talk me in to taking a dog off a chain again and that I would never own a dog that was aggressive towards other dogs even if it was only with a single dog like this case. At the end of the day it was my fault for giving them the opportunity to screw up.

I always hunted 4-6 dogs on the ground and everything would catch, that’s how 99% of guys around here hunt. Lots of guys hunt with buddies and they’ll have 8+ dogs hunting together. I’m trying to get away from that now and if I’m not hunting with other people’s dogs I want to be able to turn out 2-3 dogs and not need a bulldog. I’ve got some puppies on the ground right now that will hopefully fit the bill. I want them to hunt inside of 300yds, be very good at winding/rigging but also be able to take a track. I want them to run head up and drift the track. Preferably completely silent, or only open up if they’re looking at the hog and right behind him. If they’re by themselves I want them to back up and bay anything that’s sitting still, and catch if it tries to break or if a second dog gets there, or if I am there and tell them to catch. If it’s got big teeth I want them to back up and bay, and I’ll just use my pistol instead of having them get killed trying to catch a 400lb boar. That’s all my perfect world wishes, we’ll see how they actually turn out. This is a first time cross and the first planned breeding that I’ve done. If they turn out like I want, the hard part will be figuring out what to do next to tighten the blood and make them reproduce themselves. The momma dog is 1/2 walker X 1/2 pit and as far as I know is just scatter bred with random dogs. But her littermate brother is also a very solid proven dog, and my buddy that I got her from has pups off of her from a few years ago that are proven. The daddy is 3/4 bmc X 1/4 bird dog that Justin bred. He was from an outcross breeding so he’s not super tight either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[make-em-squeel]

As a personal fan and owner of loose baying dogs, I dont want to be chasing little sows all night.  I like a dog gritty enough to stop running hogs as long as they dont get cut often. One of my now retired 14 yr old BMC's never got cut until she got to old but would catch anything trying to run that she could handle and would rip hams/nuts etc when it was a bad one. Most would consider her gritty but she never got cut so I still called her loose baying lol. The hound crosses Ive been around that would never put teeth on one and run hem forever are to loose imo but I dont like stitching cur dogs up every hunt either

[Slim9797]

I personally love me a loose dog with style, real stock minded dogs. Slash and bark, windmill style. Ones that know how and when to apply pressure and where to put it. These dogs work for me because I bay and shoot, hunt solo 90% of the time, and am of the opinion if you give a hog the option to bay, he might need a little encouragement, but I think they rather bay around me. What I’ve kept around the last 3 years will get as gritty as they need to, but aren’t going to get themselves in a bind unless you put them in the position to. My dogs are open behind a runner, the race is probably my favorite thing to hear these days. I respect a good dog, I love a stock dog.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slim9797]

For the guys who say they life rough dogs. A conversation point.


   I know a lot of guys who claim they like/feed/hunt rough/catchy dogs. I’d say 75% of these guys are running atleast 4 often times 5 or 6 dogs on the ground... my question then becomes,  is that truly what those dogs are?

  Me personally, put 2 dogs out together, what they do individually as a pair, in my opinion is a fair assessment of what that dog actually is. 4+ dogs I’ve seen a lot of dogs do some very uncharacteristic things.... example. Get me and 3 of my buddies running the bars, ain’t a whole lot of fights we’re going to back down from, even if we know were out matched.

[Judge peel]

Good stuff. Slim your right bout that most guys run 5 6 or 7 dogs thinking they have rough dogs and in fact they don’t. If you run two dogs and they don’t Bay then I would call them rough. If one catches by its self every time then it’s striaght catch those are my standards. A loose dog should have enough grit to turn a hog by any means. Then back up circle the hog or stand off on its head and hold the hog. Big hogs tend to walk on a circled bay. From my experience but if there are a few they will wad up and stay put. I run two or three dogs I don’t like bunch of dogs on the ground


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk