My Dogs are Struggling…..

[Shotgun66]

Been huntin a little bit. It’s extremely hot and dry up here in North Texas. My “lead dog” got cut down on 5.31. Both my females came in heat directly after. Made 1 hunt per week with the 11 month old female bay dog and 11 YEAR old catch dog through June & early July. Been rough goin but the bay dog prospect keeps tryin. She finds her own and will bay if they stand. She’s a little hesitant on Sounders but solid on solo hogs. I like her. Her biggest fault is she will drop behind one and bark every breath on a break. She finally shut up and stopped one on a break yesterday. 20 yards out I cut Il Jet into the bay. She scratched straight & true through some terrible brush. It broke and Sandy swung out, shut up, and bayed him again 200 yards later. Ol Jet anchored him and we got him stuck. Dam cows about trampled us but we got it done.   We rolled off that and hunted for another hour but came up empty.


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[t-dog]

Heck that ain’t bad at all. By the time you start the other dogs back up, that young dog will start improving leaps and bounds I bet. She’ll have enough understanding about what’s going on that she can realize what the old dogs are doing and why.


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[Shotgun66]

Thanks T Dog. I believe that hunting in tough conditions (summer) and asking a dog to work alone make a dog better in the long run.
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I started the lead dog back up a couple hunts ago but I’m dropping them separate. They have been struggling to finish tracks in these dry conditions. The days I hunt it seems like there isn’t any wind to speak of. He’s taking tracks out 1/2 to 3/4 if a mile and working on them for 20 or 30 minutes. He’s just not finishing or gettin bayed like he normally does. I’m easing him back in and only dropping him for a couple short drops each hunt. The female is doing the same thing except she’s only taking the tracks a few hundred yards before she can’t move it anymore.
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I’m observing that they need wind and some moisture to be able to trail/track. Ive gotten pretty close to a couple groups of hogs and neither dog had any idea they were there. They just flat can’t smell them. We got some good rain last night and are supposed to get some more today. Hope it helps them get back right. Makes you wonder what your feedin when your out striking them!

[t-dog]

I totally agree with it making a dog better when you hunt them solo. It can make them better in a lot of ways when you put them down together as well. My example would be with let’s say a pack of bobcat hounds. Bobcats can be tough rascals to get and super slick. A lot of times a dog leading the race can make a loss for one reason or another. The other dogs though can be instrumental in getting it going again, either by pushing the lead dog through or picking it up themselves. Another thing I try to do is go to where the loss was made and sit. Let the dogs continue to work on it. There’s nothing more rewarding for that dog when they know they had a hard time but continued to push and it worked out for them. That older dog may show the younger one something really simple one time that results in her being able to finish a track more consistently. In the harder conditions it can get really frustrating and after enough frustration it can break a dogs confidence or cause them to get lazy. The other part of knowing a set of hogs are there and the dogs being clueless, don’t show them. Move around that group in a circle. The wind is a tricky thing sometimes. What it’s doing up at head level for you isn’t necessarily what the dogs are experiencing. The scent cone down there may be something different and when you put them in the right position they can smell them where they couldn’t from a different direction. One of the things that amazed me the most one time was a very similar situation. I’ve seen it happen since but at that time it was the first time I had witnessed it. We pulled up to a place and the wind was blowing out of the north. My buddies old dog threw his head up and went straight with the wind not into it. I told my buddies to watch. That rascal put up a group of sows and shoats about 400 yards due east of us. The way the wind was drafting though the brush created a scent cone that I would’ve never dreamed of especially as hard as it was blowing. Valleys or draws, right of ways cut for power lines, roads, fences,  etc., or just the natural way vegetation has grown can all have an effect on scenting. I’m sure you know all this but thought I’d put it out there in case someone less experienced read it, just food for thought lol. I’m glad the old dog is back too. I’m sure he is for sure.


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[Shotgun66]

Good feedback TDog. What you described is pretty much what I did with one exception. I put the finished dog up and gave the young dog a chance to do it alone. I might be asking a little much of her right now. She seems willing and able to take it.
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I appreciate the advice. I’ll never consider myself too experienced to learn.


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[t-dog]

Heck none of us know it all. We quit getting better when we think we know it all. I like getting on this forum to talk to everyone on here but my main reason for being here is to learn. There is a wealth of knowledge on here and I love when the folks that have it share it. If it isn’t shared then who’s really to blame for young hunters and beginners having poor ethics or ruining good dogs when it was preventable. Yes we’ve all learned some lessons the hard way but not all of our lessons. The ones that won’t take advice, well they usually fizzle out because never have anything worth hunting. I like the way you think and handle your dogs.

[Goose87]

Sounds to me like your dogs are just running hot quick, once a dogs body temp starts rising their smelling abilities start becoming weaker, (hunt by hunt basis, it's not permanent), I don't know your feeding schedule but I would start feeding them every other day, let's say you feed them, MWFSn, double their ration on Monday, regular ration on Wednesday and half ration a minimum 12 hrs before they're hunted, a dogs guts and digestive tract full of sh!t does nothing to create body heat, climbing body heat will make the best of them look like they're standing on their tails, keep some water with electrolytes in them free choice in the of box and if you really want to do as much as you can for them freeze a big pot of water, one for each side of box, as your leaving just put the pots inside the box, the dogs will lick them as they feel the need and that will help them out a good bit as well, as they melt you can use them as your water bowls,

[Shotgun66]

T Dog I agree 100% that there is a lot of good knowledge to be gained on this site. Hunters just have to remain open minded and be willing to try different tactics from time to time. My mentors taught me a lot about how to read & train a dog and see the world from their point of view. Hold them to a high standard but don’t forget they are living, breathing, flawed mammals who will struggle from time to time. Take good care of them and they’ll be there for you when you need em they would tell me. I really appreciate them taking the time to teach me those things.
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Goose you make a great point about the dogs heating up quickly. In fact, I think that’s the biggest factor with my lead dog right now. He’s just not in good enough shape yet after being out for 2 months. It’s a lot to ask for him to bounce right back in this miserable heat. I’ve had him out 3 times and he’s looking better for longer on his first drop. He’s struggling on the second or third drop as it heats up and he gets tired.
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I think the little gyp is simply not experienced enough yet to pull off tough tracks/finds. It’s more of an attention span thing with her.
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I feed every morning at 6:30 AM. I typically hunt my dogs on a 24 hour fast. I feed roughly half of what I feed during the cooler months right now. If I know I’m gonna hunt the next day, I feed half of normal rations. I add water to their feed as well. 3 of my dogs are on 22/12 victor yellow bag. My lead dog is on 24/20 value pak. He’s a naturally lean dog and a bit of a hard keeper. He will completely fall off if I feed him anything less than the 24/20. I’m sure the hotter feed contributes to him heating up particularly while he’s out of shape. I can tell how he’s doing with the heat if he’s constantly struggling to get empty. When he’s fit, he will empty once at the beginning and be fine after that. When he’s out of shape and it’s hot, he will try to empty frequently throughout the hunt and his stool gets runny/loose.
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Great ideas on the staggered feed schedule electrolytes and ice buckets. I’ll give those a try.


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[Shotgun66]

I also condition my dogs 3 days a week on non hunting days. I road them and swim them from 7:30 PM to 8:30 PM. I have a place with good roads and a series of ponds/tanks roughly 3/4 mile apart. I’ll long trot, bullet, & breeze them in a session. Let them swim and cool off and go to the next tank. It helps them out but i haven’t found anything to simulate getting on hogs in the woods. The adrenaline & excitement heats them up quick!


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[Goose87]

Sounds to me like your dogs are just running hot quick, once a dogs body temp starts rising their smelling abilities start becoming weaker, (hunt by hunt basis, it's not permanent), I don't know your feeding schedule but I would start feeding them every other day, let's say you feed them, MWFSn, double their ration on Monday, regular ration on Wednesday and half ration a minimum 12 hrs before they're hunted on Fridays, a dogs guts and digestive tract full of sh!t does nothing but to create body heat, climbing body heat will make the best of them look like they're standing on their tails, keep some water with electrolytes in them free choice in the box and if you really want to do as much as you can for them freeze a big pot of water, one for each side of box, as your leaving just put the pots inside the box, the dogs will lick them as they feel the need and that will help them out a good bit as well, as they melt you can use them as your water bowls,

Dang thumb hit send, it blows me away the life long houndsmen I've known along time that really know how to work dogs that don't keep water in the box for their dogs, especially this time of year, but you better believe come Monday at work they will be sucking down bottles every chance they get, I told my buddy Francis one day as he is about to fall out from heat as we were laying bricks, "oh no big boy if you throw up I'll club you with a lighter knot, you a hog hunter you supposed to be tough", "ain't that what you said to me the other day when I gave YOUR dogs some water", Francis Spiers is a devout church going individual, and I've known him over 20 yrs and can count on one hand how many curse words have come from his mouth in that time frame, but that day I brought the devil out in him and was kinda impressed with the feller be he used the word "fu*k" as a noun, verb, and adjective all in the same sentence, anyways back to the dogs, what are you feeding, and how much protein, we're all guilty of this and think we're helping our dogs when in reality were hindering them, protein is used to build and repair muscle and connective tissue, very little is utilized as energy, in the summer months you see big performance difference if you swap to a lower protein or cut your normal kibble with a lower grade, less protein, protein also makes the body produce heat as its digesting, and is also hard on dogs endocrine systems when the body isn't needing and using all the excess, now in the cooler months where a dogs is spending his energy hunting, he's usually going harder and longer and also has to constantly shiver if not moving to stay warm, only you know your dogs, go outside and look at them, if you can roll a ball across their back they're too fat, if you can see a little hip bone and on hunt days after the hunt even a little vertebrae sticking up they're good, their K9 athletes and should be in same physical condition as marathon runners, little thin, lean muscle mass and not to bulky....


Here's a few things I do just to get a giggle outa watching my buddies scratch their heads while pontificating to themselves what they're doing differ t than myself bc mine don't check up for the heat if I do my part, I'll share it on here just bc of what Tdog said about sharing the knowledge we've gained and I have consumed so much over the years from this site, taking little tid bits of folks methods and applying what fits my pack and adjusting other things, now whether any of y'all try any of this or not is on y'all and just for the record I'm not suggesting or endorsing these methods bc I don't know your owns dogs like you do so that parts on you..

1) mix baking soda in some water at the rate of 3 grams per 2.2lbs of body weight, hold the dogs water morning of last feeding and at regular feeding give this mixture as only water source, also mix the water over their feed, just use your normal feeding cup and fill it up and pour over the feed, this is known as buffering the blood, lactic ACID is what causes cramps and muscle shut down, so in order to hold off LA build up longer than normal make the animals body more alkaline, this is used in humans but has worked for my dogs

2) fasting, I know it's hard for some to do but, especially this time of year, if your dogs are in good flesh then hold their feed for about 3 days, once every other week or depending on the individual, that gives their guts time to clean out, the health benefits outweigh the performance benefits, and even then 3 days may not be long enough, I picked to big game bred kemmers the other day that are outa shape, I wanted to get them completely cleaned out before I started working them, take it how you want and call it what you want, unless you know performance animals then it's hard to fathom, but I didn't feed them a lick until they quit passing stool, I let them run around every evening to help clean out, this just goes to show you how much food can stay in their digestive tract for periods of time, it was 5 DAYS, and these dudes were still passing stool and hadn't had a morsel of kibble, just water and air and yet we're still full gutted, look at wolves and totes, they don't eat a big meal every day but when they do they gorge on it until it's gone and lay around all fat and plump, to fat and slow to catch another big meal until they've ran that meal off and have slimmed down and leaned up enough to be fast and agile enough to take down another large prey.....

3)CORN OIL, I repeat CORN oil, it has to be corn oil, mix a TBS or two of corn oil over your dogs feed everyday and it will help enhance their olfactory functions, I know there's a few of y'all that can't wait to call BS on this, I mean how in the world is that supposed to help, google it, research it, I'm not going to make it easy but I can promise this info is out there, I can't remember right off the top of my head what it's purpose is but it works, it takes about month to start taking effect, it's not going to make a hot nosed help dog become your pack leader but will give them a little bit of an extra edge...

4) Now this is going to really get the blasphemic bunch ready to form a lynch mob, bc they've never heard of this witch craft, but when utilized correctly and at the right times ESSENTIAL OILS, will help them out greatly, especially peppermint oil, you have to be careful with them and get to know about them first, when applied to the inside of their ears, under their chin, down their back bone in a few places, this will help increase blood flow, is a bronchodilator and will open up their airways allowing more o2 absorption which leads to increased physical performance, and also help them cool down quicker, along with a list of other performance enhancing benefits, orange essential oil along with spearmint essential both helped increase performance and stamina, rosemary essential oil also helped increase performance, there are more EO's that help contribute as well, y'all will just have to study about them and how they work and see what fits your needs...

5) Pomegranate juice and seeds has a pile of documented muscle and performance enhancers that it's to many to list, I haven't tried this myself but will be here shortly when I start working some dogs for a competition...

There's plenty more little things you can do to increase overall production, what I listed above may seem complicated and aggravating but really aren't and are simple and are on the more simpler side that can be done at home in the evenings if you want to put forth the effort, all of these things can make an impact but will hardly do anything for an out of shape fat animal, if your dogs are panting from the kennel to the box then chances are they need more exercise, letting them jog next to bike or buggy goes along way but is often overdone and has negative effects and instantly gets labeled as nonsense, if you can run your dogs next to a bike or buggy, do it at their pace, never break out of a high brisk pace, of your dogs has to break his stride to keep pace your going to fast, what you want to do is you more or less want to see them at a very fast paced walk, not running or jogging, and as soon as they start panting with their mouth open, end it right there and slowly build them up to longer distance over time, this builds cardio and works the dogs slow twitch muscles, which are his endurance muscles, hope some of this may help someone somehow one day....

[t-dog]

Lol Goose, you’re a funny writer. There are lots of things you can do extra to help your animals. I remember feeding out my catch dog one summer. I was feeding his regular kibble but not a normal amount. Ground meat (greyhound meat), spinach, cottage cheese, and apple cider vinegar. With daily exercise and that diet, he was super lean and hard and performed well. He was a good dog anyway but I wanted to experiment. He would knock the bottom out of food dish too. He loved that diet. Apple cider vinegar is extremely good for animals and people alike. I try to keep it in my dog water. Lots of mineral benefits, it helps cut gut fat, it kills viruses and algae, and helps create a more alkaline system. Most of y’all know I’m also a super firm believer in probiotics. Most people don’t realize that dogs eat grass for two reasons. The main reason is for the probiotics that are on the grass. The same reason that wild animals do it and the same reason they eat the intestines and stomach contents of their kill. Lots of people say oh that dogs eating grass, their stomach must hurt. It might hurt but they are eating it for the probiotics, they help settle the gut. The second reason is roughage that they need. I can’t think of a land living animal that doesn’t eat grass from birds to lizards to hogs and dogs. The brain and the gut produce the same chemicals. If one gets off it robs from the other. If the get the gut balanced, they are more stable psychologically stable, their immune system is better, their hormones balance better, etc. I have seen with my own eyes the effects they can have give example after example. We all, I’m sure, have our own thoughts about what’s right or what works. If you think it works then keep on keeping on.


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[Goose87]

Lol Goose, you’re a funny writer. There are lots of things you can do extra to help your animals. I remember feeding out my catch dog one summer. I was feeding his regular kibble but not a normal amount. Ground meat (greyhound meat), spinach, cottage cheese, and apple cider vinegar. With daily exercise and that diet, he was super lean and hard and performed well. He was a good dog anyway but I wanted to experiment. He would knock the bottom out of food dish too. He loved that diet. Apple cider vinegar is extremely good for animals and people alike. I try to keep it in my dog water. Lots of mineral benefits, it helps cut gut fat, it kills viruses and algae, and helps create a more alkaline system. Most of y’all know I’m also a super firm believer in probiotics. Most people don’t realize that dogs eat grass for two reasons. The main reason is for the probiotics that are on the grass. The same reason that wild animals do it and the same reason they eat the intestines and stomach contents of their kill. Lots of people say oh that dogs eating grass, their stomach must hurt. It might hurt but they are eating it for the probiotics, they help settle the gut. The second reason is roughage that they need. I can’t think of a land living animal that doesn’t eat grass from birds to lizards to hogs and dogs. The brain and the gut produce the same chemicals. If one gets off it robs from the other. If the get the gut balanced, they are more stable psychologically stable, their immune system is better, their hormones balance better, etc. I have seen with my own eyes the effects they can have give example after example. We all, I’m sure, have our own thoughts about what’s right or what works. If you think it works then keep on keeping on.


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TDog I forgot about the ACV but it has to have the "mother", I do the same with my dogs, heck this time of yr I sweat horribly and to help my body replenish quicker I put a splash of ACV in my glasses of water several times day, and YES YES YES, guys if there's one thing that you can do that's got the greatest overall health impact, it's PROBIOTICS, I buy a powder form made by ramard at TSC, it pro, and pre biotics along with enzymes, I got an old spice shaker and poured the powder in it and can just sprinkle a little over their food with ease, it takes about 3 months to really be able to see a big difference in your dogs but eventually you'll notice a difference about them, just overall demeanor, physical shape, performance, health, like Tdog has said there's so many health benefits when it comes to maintaining healthy gut flora that you'll begin taking some form of them, a healthy gut is the key to life, and a lot of folks are on community water that has chemicals mixed in to "kill the bacteria", well it can't differentiate the good and bad bacteria so it kills both, when consumed, PPB are nearly a must when you have community water, watch their stool, it says it all about what's going on with your dogs health, the details can get sh!tty so I leave it at that....

[Goose87]

I also condition my dogs 3 days a week on non hunting days. I road them and swim them from 7:30 PM to 8:30 PM. I have a place with good roads and a series of ponds/tanks roughly 3/4 mile apart. I’ll long trot, bullet, & breeze them in a session. Let them swim and cool off and go to the next tank. It helps them out but i haven’t found anything to simulate getting on hogs in the woods. The adrenaline & excitement heats them up quick!


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Like a good roping horse that's has some blue Hancock in him, you gotta wear him down before he can work good lol, the adrenaline and excitement will play off over time and more tracks they are fed and they figure the game out, swimming is the absolute best exercise for a dog but only draw back is it doesn't condition a dog to heat, which in your case isn't an issue bc they are getting the physical work, and it's mixed up exercises, if you can restrain them to the SXS, try just the slow steady high pace walk, most of my dogs I work usually get up to 7-9 mph before they break outta the walk into a stride or light Gallup, once they do that they're going to fast, a dogs fast twitch muscles are responsible for his quick sudden movements, and his slow twitch muscles are what he uses in long distance, by working them at a slower pace your burning calories and fat, and getting their heart rate up but maintaining that high paced walk your able to work them longer and it's more consistent and is what builds their cardio and stamina... 


None of that puts the on hogs quicker just benefits the endurance once jumped, in one side of my cur base the dogs didn't really start putting it together until they were about 3, and slowing down and working on a track, bc they were bred around a big motor dog on one side, my old smutt dog is like that still, he will have himself so worked up before I'm out the drive way that's he's panting heavy, and would cover a garmin screen quick like a rat on acid, until he got a little more maturity and realized his job, he still gets worked up and over heated quick, back to what I said about the Essential oils earlier, there's some out there, lavender being one that calms, there's quite a few out there that are know to help with calming down and focus and stuff such as that, another you can do that will help them cool down quicker is I mixing wintergreen rubbing alcohol and the blue cool down spray you can get from the dollar general in a spray bottle and spray their undersides when you pick them up, they won't like it but it brings their core temp down quickly and safely by opening the pores and allowing heat to escape through evaporation...

You've seem to be pretty on top of things as it is, I don't believ the feed is to hot, not 24%, if your not doing it yet, start asap tm adding the pro biotics in their feedings....

[Goose87]

And your right about that heat, these critters are made of flesh, bone ,and blood just the same as us, they aren't machines, it's asking a lot out of dog especially one not conditioned to heat yet, a lot of dogs have been killed over the years bc they didn't know they were pushing their limits all they knew was go get it and their handlers being more focused on the hog instead of reading their dogs condition when you can see them, I'll snatch one up real quick even if he's burning a good boar up if i see a potential issue....