Hyper or High Energy Dogs

[TheRednose]

I just recently read a different thread in which I found some things interesting. There were some opinions that caught my eye so I thought it would be fun to discuss. So keep in mind I'm not saying anyone's preferences are wrong or trying to change any minds. I am just giving an alternate point of view based on some interesting examples.

I see people talking about "Hyper" or what I like to call high energy dogs. There's different levels of hyper, starting with just a little more high energy hyper to the extreme end of the spectrum of an actual mental disorder making them neurotic. Once they get to that extreme end obviously no one wants that. But most high end performance breeds push it close as it is a fine line because usually in these performance breeds high drive manifests as high energy. Keep in mind we are talking about performance breeds. Also hyper doesn't mean unstable or lacking of nerve, they can lack nerve or confidence but lazy dogs can too, that is a whole different trait.

In most cases it is just extreme drive, the highest achievers in life usually have a "problem" with this at some level. In the human world some of our greatest achievers were thought and some even diagnosed to be hyper such as Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, Richard Branson etc. Same in the race horse world THE most famous and successful sire line of ALL TIME was known for being wound super tight with a fiery disposition.

Now to the K9 world look at the field trial EP's I can't speak on all of them but I used to live next to a training kennel filled with them being trained for the national comps and they were wired so tight it was insane, yet they could work in the heat at full speed all day. Then I think back to when I was young and I was around imported Mals that competed in the different ring sports and other protection work, lets just say especially back then they weren't selecting for a laid back dog. In fact they highest drive energy pups were coveted the most for multiple reasons one is they were the easiest to train. Yep that's what I said easiest to train... That is for a professional trainer, they would have been a train wreck for a normal person. Once you really understand how high energy or better put high prey drive works you realize it is the best tool there is to train a K9.

But I do understand why most people (including myself somewhat) like the laid back dog as they are much easier and in most cases more pleasurable to own. Super high drive dogs can flat out drive you crazy. But in settings especially at the highest levels where money, competition, and or status is involved you will see these crazy animals lol.

I saw someone mention they do not like hyper dogs and they like a dog to look them in the eye. I can definitely understand why people would like that but they are not mutually exclusive. I like a dog that has high drive and looks me in the eye, I think they learn quickest. Two smartest dogs I ever owned were and did both.

Also another good point I saw mentioned was they eat more and that they think they have less stamina. Well both of those points make sense and I definitely agree with the food part but I will have to disagree with the stamina part as the most hyper dogs as a set (breed wise) in general in the K9 world are the dogs with the most stamina bar none. Field trial bird dogs, pen bred three day derby running dogs, and in the gamedog world a couple of the lines that I saw with the most stamina were all wound tight almost to the point of neurotic. Keep in mind once you start working them, most focus in on the work and all of that energy they have is now working for them.

Just a different outlook for people to think about.

[t-dog]

My observation with a lot of dogs that are kennel kept and really high strung, is that they are usually pretty intelligent animals. If they were out where they could keep their mind stimulated, they wouldn’t be AS hyper. I use to keep my dogs rotated every few days. To me it helped keep them grounded and from going stir crazy. Stir crazy and pen stale are real and it happens to a lot of dogs. Getting knew scenery and née dogs to tell hunting stories ( even if they are lies about how big or how many) through the wire to helps in my opinion. The best dog I ever owned had all day every day stamina, and was a business minded. You couldn’t ask for more hunt, drive, or want to. At home though, he was one laid back quiet rascal. He never made a sound unless you were headed to the hog pen. Every time you looked at him you could tell he was thinking. He was one that looked you in the eye. I have a couple now that are high strung. One of them is like a Mexican Jumping bean, he’s just busting at the seems to load up and go hunt. The other one isn’t quite as bad but still wound up. My lead dog though is the quiet laid back type and she never says a word or bounces off the walls. Feeding time comes and she goes in her kennel and is waiting on me to get there and never puts her head in the bowl until I close the gate. When I come back and turn them out, she just eases out and gets some petting and goes on before the others come over and are jumping and flailing around on her to get their petting. The other two I have to tell them the same thing every day. Go get in your pen because they are doubled up in a kennel wanting to be first. Settle down your gonna get fed or get down and quit hitting that gate and I’ll let you out. So my pick is the laid back type that had a work ethic. High strung can definitely get it done just not my preference.


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[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

My observation with a lot of dogs that are kennel kept and really high strung, is that they are usually pretty intelligent animals. If they were out where they could keep their mind stimulated, they wouldn’t be AS hyper. I use to keep my dogs rotated every few days. To me it helped keep them grounded and from going stir crazy. Stir crazy and pen stale are real and it happens to a lot of dogs. Getting knew scenery and née dogs to tell hunting stories ( even if they are lies about how big or how many) through the wire to helps in my opinion. The best dog I ever owned had all day every day stamina, and was a business minded. You couldn’t ask for more hunt, drive, or want to. At home though, he was one laid back quiet rascal. He never made a sound unless you were headed to the hog pen. Every time you looked at him you could tell he was thinking. He was one that looked you in the eye. I have a couple now that are high strung. One of them is like a Mexican Jumping bean, he’s just busting at the seems to load up and go hunt. The other one isn’t quite as bad but still wound up. My lead dog though is the quiet laid back type and she never says a word or bounces off the walls. Feeding time comes and she goes in her kennel and is waiting on me to get there and never puts her head in the bowl until I close the gate. When I come back and turn them out, she just eases out and gets some petting and goes on before the others come over and are jumping and flailing around on her to get their petting. The other two I have to tell them the same thing every day. Go get in your pen because they are doubled up in a kennel wanting to be first. Settle down your gonna get fed or get down and quit hitting that gate and I’ll let you out. So my pick is the laid back type that had a work ethic. High strung can definitely get it done just not my preference.


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Yeah man.  It don’t take one bouncin off the walls to be able to hunt all day. Lol.  The ones that are thinking is one step ahead on the track from what I have seen.  Not over running it and have to come back.  Kind of like 2 step forward and 1 step back dance.  Them ones that can push it steady and solid will put a bay at the end of it quicker to me.  My uncle had bought two half bird dogs half walker about 5 yrs ago.   My lord them dogs like to drove him and me crazy.  They made me nervous just looking at em.  Lol.  I think they passed up 20 hogs to find one. 


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[t-dog]

I experienced the same thing with the same type of  cross highwater. He was high strung to the point that if his eyes were open he looked like a rocket was shoved up
his butt. He too over ran a lot of hogs. He was fast and could go all day but he could make you wanta go play in the road. I think if he had slowed down some he would’ve been a top dog.


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[Reuben]

The absolute best dog I ever had was laid back until it was time to go to work…what made him even greater was his brain power…I had another that about didn’t have a heartbeat it seemed…he stayed in his dog house and I sometimes had to coax him out…he was a good looking well made black brindle…you drop the tail gate and he will go to work…at 7 or 8 months I had to carry him out of the woods…he overheated killing a pig…an old hog dogger once said to me…if there aren’t any hogs around he will poop one out for you…it was a big compliment coming from him…

I won’t keep an over hyper dog…I’ve had some that were hyper but manageable…I would say these dogs have a double dose of testosterone…they tend to be well muscled even without much exercise…they tend to be alpha type dogs with extreme stamina for all day hunting…I have one like that know…just good all around hunting dogs…

I’m always on the look out for the great ones…they seem to be laid back more often than not…
They have an aura or air about them…an above it all attitude…these are the smart ones that usually will be our best…these are the ones that excite us when we drop the tailgate…

[Shotgun66]

Appreciate the post Rednose. Great topic for discussion. I have come to realize that there is no single dog that has ever been, or will ever be, created that will satisfy all breeders, hunters, handlers, dog fanciers. It’s part of what I enjoy about the game.
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If the audience thinks a hyper dog can’t make a nice dog, they are mistaken. They will require some patience along with an experienced hand to guide them but they can make great dogs. I align with your theory that they can be some of the best if you have the intestinal fortitude to deal with them. Circumstances are a factor as well. It’s a lot easier to deal with a number 2 stomping, kennel barking, digging, wire chewing maniac if you have the resources for it.
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I’m at a point where I enjoy the challenging prospects…..but when I’ve had enough of em, I’ll drop em like a bad habit.
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It’s all about what each individual can and/or will tolerate.


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[The Old Man]

I just tak'em as they come and if they are extra high strung I just keep shockin and knockin until they decide to be civil if I ask them to, if that required discipline happens to "ruin" one they were a cull anyway. Both breeds I keep here run more to the high strung side, one set of them I have had around 40 yrs and selected them to breed off performance only the others I have had 10/12 years and selected them the same way though there is not lots of change in their personality since I've had them, so I guess maybe I lean more towards the high strung dogs. A very low percentage of them are naturally quiet "by nature" around the house but it can be and is achieved  with the aforementioned shockin and knockin, after they learn all that noise isn't acceptable lots of them stay in their house or lay around in a civil fashion. They all handle great in the woods and in the box after a very short time. Collaring them up to go hunting I pull the lid and most of them stick their head out and stand to be collared, if their head is not out I can call them by name and they stick it out, on a strike they will all be blowing up and having a fit but they don't storm the door when I unlatch it "unless I swing it open and step back" and if I want a particular one I call them by name and let them out etc. Recently I have began making  them follow me out of the woods without a leash, turn them out when I get home and they follow me to their spots, just general common handling habits. If you do want to or need to lead them they aren't pulling on you or running circles around you.

[Cajun]

  Back when I trained Labs, I loved a hyper dog. I wanted them to retrieve the bird going all out and coming back all out. Non of that trotting bs bringing back the bird. They would be wanting to make a retrieve so bad they would be quivering and shaking all over waiting on a command.
   When I started with Plotts, the Weems line were much more hyper then the swampland dogs and I have interbred them thru the years. I have had just as many good ones from the hyper line as I have had from the quieter ones. Like the Old Man says the hyper ones take more handling and obedience. That being said, even the quiet ones can cause a ruckus if you dont put a handle on them.

[t-dog]

I think Rednose hit it on the head with the word neurotic. High strung is one thing but when it gets to the point of being neurotic, most people, including myself, don’t want to put up with those tendencies. We do this for pleasure and those types take the fun out of it. I had a catch dog like that a couple years ago. He was kinda backwards. He was a great pet, but come time to go to the woods, HE WAS A NIGHTMARE!!! No amount of shocking or knocking or combination of the two made the slightest difference. I saw him catapulted because he went airborne from 20+ feet away from a hog that he had a clear shot on. He went so high that he hit a big yaupon and it slung him and caused the hog to break. It got worse instead of better the more I hunted him. I think that dogs like The Old Man describes while they are high strung, they obviously aren’t to a point that they are irrational and are still thinkers. They aren’t high strung to the point that they don’t if they are coming or going.


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[TheRednose]

To be honest I am like the old man and take them as they come but one of the points I was making was at the highest levels of competition were there are big stakes on the line when animals are ONLY bred for performance you tend to see higher percentages of these high energy animals. Are those things directly related or purely coincidence? Since I don't really believe much in coincidence so I think on a broader sense they are.

This last couple of years I've been around some comp coonhounds and I've noticed it some with them, they are not all high strung but I have seen quite a high percentage that are. I have had a quite a few people tell me when I unsnap that lead they better be gone, or I better see dust etc. My thought is you have to breed to the extreme to get the average up where you want it, Tdog tells me that all the time and I believe he is fully right and that may be a contributing factor to this. There is no right or wrong answer just a man's preference and what they will put up in order to get what they want.

Finally I used to talk to one of my old houndsman mentors after most of my hunts on the phone and I remember telling him about one of the two high strung dogs I mentioned earlier because he would frustrate me and try to cast out deep when he knew we were ready to go home and he laughed and said "Michael that is a good problem, you can take it out of them but you can't put it in".

[Reuben]

Yep…you can’t put in what isn’t there to put in…

Way back before the city inherited the forgotten beach and created rules and regulations…
the kids were in school, and my wife worked and because I worked twelve hour shifts I had more time to hunt and also to take the dogs out to watch them run, hunt and swim along the beach…no hogs behind the beach dunes back then…we have quite a few now and the rattlesnakes are as thick now as they were back then…

I had two half brothers about the same size and weight and both were well made…my stud dog Buck was well muscled…but the 1/2 brother Smoke was hard muscled and a little on the hyper and he always had an appetite…I described smoke as having an extra shot of testosterone because he was hard muscled and always looked to be in shape even in his older age…

I tested their speed and stamina as I did all my dogs at the beach…I noticed their speed was about the same…but the stamina was not…Buck would start fading and Smoke would dig deep and maintained his speed…once I saw this I slowly eased my speed and let them pass me up and then I stopped…in their minds they knew they could beat the truck once they passed me they just brought me to a stop…that was their mindset so we played the game…I stopped and let them catch their breath…the race was on when I gunned the engine twice…that’s how I trained them to road in front of me…and I learned more about my dogs doing these things…

One day I went quite a ways out of town to hunt and while I was visiting before coming back those two broke out in a fight in the dog box…by time I found out Smoke had the upper hand…he had that extra something that gave him the edge…I actually named him Thunderheart but called him smoke…

[NLAhunter]

I believe that to that you have to breed to the extreme on something to get better average or dogs like that me and guy was talking about dogs and I was telling him what I was thinking of breeding next told him I wanted to take gyp to this certain lines good family of dogs that has a lots lots of go and hunt and run one all day if that's what it takes to get one bayed he said the dogs you are feeding have lot of hunt in em I said yea they got some hunt but I don't want to breed to anything that I think might take some hunt out of what I got I am always looking for better than what I got and I by far ain't got the best there is but I am trying to breed towards better of what I want and like with every cross I can always put some brakes on one with to much go but can't never make one go that ain't got it In em

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[t-dog]

100% you can’t get something out of them that isn’t in them.

I think a lot of specialty bred families of animals ( comp dogs, race horses, etc.) have a tendency to be high strung because less emphasis is put on the disposition of those animals. It starts off minimal in the sense that a higher strung dog performed well and is bred to another that performed well but maybe wasn’t as high strung. Some of the pups inherit one parents personality other inherit the other parents personality. One parent or the other is exceptional and the hottest thing going. So the pups having that parents name on their papers are a hot commodity. The high strung ones may not be all that high strung just a little more so than the mellow ones. Over time that gene keeps getting bred because it hasn’t become a problem yet. And over a longer period of time it gets progressively worse but because the breeder is use to it, they don’t notice the progression so much. Eventually you start getting the neurotic types that are intolerable and like the old man says, those are the ones that get culled. I dated a barrel racer that had a little family of horses that were solid. They were fast, easy to train, easy keepers, and easy to get along with. They were also very versatile as far as using them on barrels, or rope horses, and pasture horses as they had a lot of cow to them. Her favorite horse though didn’t carry any of that blood. The way he ran, he was much easier for her to ride and that was what she liked so much about him. I wouldn’t have given a nickel for that ugly rascal but she bought the feed. We always argued about who was fastest out of him and her other main horse. Her favorite was always nervous. He had that ole race horse lip twitch. It took twice as much to keep weight on him as it did the others. He made me nervous as all get out in her approach down the alley way. I figured he would hurt her bad one day but thankfully didn’t. My pick was high strung when he came down the alley too, but not to the point that of me worrying about her getting in a wreck. So one day we were riding the two, her on her pick and me on mine. We got to talking trash and all of a sudden she takes off. I was like heck naw! When I tell you we ran past them, I mean to say they thought there were hurricane winds blowing. It was like they stopped and waited on us we went past them so fast. I made my point to her. She was a little scared of letting the horse I liked go completely. His take off was really powerful and I honestly think his speed intimidated her. Both were good horses at their job, but the one I personally thought best was a much more well rounded animal.  As said, no right or wrong, just preference. I have both, I like the laid back best and I can’t do crack head.


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[Rough curs]

Plain and simple....i.cant stand a hyper dog. Barkin , bouncing off the kennels for no reason.GONE. If i cant get a vest or collar on , GONE. Ive gave away good dogs because of this and i just recently got one back that i gave away for this reason but im glad i got him back. He has changed quite a bit in a year. My dogs are allowed to bark when i pull up the rest of g to load them of something in there yard thats IT!

[ModisettH]

From my experience every one that I have raised or seen that just couldn’t keep still in the pen or on the ground have been sorry.
I’ve had several that just couldn’t for the life of them relax.
Had one in particular that was in a large open pen around 40x40. He had a track all the way around it. Would do figure 8’s exc.
He was soooo active in the pen but every time you took him out of it he would sit at your feet. Wouldn’t cast wouldn’t hunt. Had no means to do it.
I’ve got one now that does terrible in a kennel. He’s on his chain & any given time you go to him he will run either a circle or a big half moon. He won’t hunt over 125 yards at max. Seems to me they have no drive to go once given the chance to use the energy they have.


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[TexasHogDogs]

I ve seen dogs in all packages. High energy wide open hard to keep and not worth a damn except screwing up then again seen it vise versa where these types were great dogs.  Same laid back type sleep all day never get aroused  until time to go to work and its on and will work themselves to death and again vise versa were these should have stayed sleeping .  But you know what ? I've seen men ruin great dogs and Ive seen men make great dogs out of average dogs.  I've seen one mans trash turn into great dogs and I've seen great dogs turn into trash when this happens it is usually the mans fault and not the animals.  So you see its what works for you they come in all types of packages.  Its the mans eye for a dog and then his ability to bring out the best in the animal.  In most cases this is the case !   When I speak of dogs I mean years of Hog dogs and way more years of Bulldogs.   I prefer the laid back dogs that know when its game time.  But then again I love a high energy great dog some can be a real challenge .

[Arkansashunter96]

 One of the first  dogs I had purchased was a airdale cur thatd hunt the number 2 out of 20 yards most aggravating thing ever trying to hear. I've had a few since then. Finally just decided to stop buying dogs. One year old that I own that seems to be a exception to the crazy busy dog on a chain is a english pointer I call lefty. Pain in the ass to give shots,vest, anything to touch him lol.. I had to finally put him in a kennel because the 15 foot chain was enough for him to stay busy all day long and looked pretty thin.. He has the hunt and I'm probably really holding him back be ause every time he's seen a hog he's caught it and I'm starting to find out bird dogs don't hold together like a cur or walker. When we're trying to get out of the woods and it's 3am he's starting to get really good about disappearing and being 500 yards out with me not paying attention. Also he's really independent so it's been hard getting him on hogs. Almost don't want to bring him around my hound buddies anymore lol just for the fact were walk hunting and it'll take me to long to back him or the other dogs up.  My two dogs ranger and slick when they come out of the barrel they stretch like a cat and will come wait they may act excited but they're pretty cool especially my bulldogs. My favorite cd willow is fat and her whole body just shakesand she squeels when she's excited. Oddly enough the pit cur I bred a few years ago is pretty intense in a kennel.shes always barking at what's out of it and jumping around pretty tight on a hog seems to got a nose.  when we walk hunt it's starting to seem like she's the dog that's with us. Idk if it's because of the breeding with the mom being willow which is who is no athlete or what because the dad is ranger. Or it may be because I gave her to a guy that didn't hunt her and I got her back at 2.5. I've seen her cast hunt just fine quiet a few times but I guess we will see because she's the only offspring of ranger I have right now. The young stag I have is kinda intense but I think it's because they're sighthounds the older ones kinda prance around but when it's time to vest up they're cool as a cucumber but let something get there attention they're gone. I guess it all boils down to too much or too less of anything it'll never be perfect. I cannot wait to be that good at fine tuning.

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