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Author Topic: Why is it so hard to find good bulldogs?  (Read 1307 times)
I am t-dogs mentor
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« on: March 17, 2022, 06:30:45 am »

I have my thoughts, what's yours?

I expect alot out of my bay dogs and cull hard.

Why are there so many bulldog kennels breeding un proven dogs? 

I understand there's always gonna be some dog peddlers, but there are alot of good people breeding and selling dogs that should be culled.

 If it's all about money and pride for them why not have proven dogs that you can be proud of and get more money for.


Breeding dogs is always a gamble. But Breeding unproven dogs is playing poker with your eyes closed.


A cull is a cull no matter how many excuses you give it.
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Austesus
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2022, 08:01:29 am »

I think it’s a combination of several factors. A lot of people are using packs of rough dogs and they think just because the dog is caught when they arrive that it’s a catch dog. That is without regard to where he caught, or any of the other traits related to a walk in, such as how he goes to a bay, or how consistent he is with an accurate catch. I see a ton of people bragging about a catch dog or an RCD that they have but every picture or video you see, the dog isn’t even on the ear. As a pack that can/does work, but in my opinion it disqualifies the dog from being a legitimate solo catch dog.

I think another part of it is the part time hog hunters, meaning those that look at it like a hobby that they do when they feel like it, not a lifestyle. That type of person might only hunt one time a month. So their catch dog might only get 12 hunts in a year. Well they have it catch a few pigs and all of a sudden it’s the most reliable, rock solid catch dog they’ve ever seen and they just have to get pups off of it. I think that’s BS. If the dog hasn’t been tested, hasn’t been on big rank boars, how do you know what you’re really feeding? That dog might take a whooping and then decide he’s a bay dog.

So to add to the RCD and part time hunter element, I think a lot of it is also people that genuinely don’t know what a good dog is. I don’t claim to have great dogs but I hope that I’m on the way to getting there, and I’ve hunted behind some good ones and I’ve talked with quite a few dog men that are much older and wiser than me, so I try to learn from everything I hear and see. I’ve seen a lot of people that decide they want to get in to hunting and they link up with some other part time hunters and none of them have really met or hunted with a true dog man to teach them some of these things that a lot of us on this forum would probably look at as common sense.

The final part of my rambling is culling. I see it all the time on the fb groups and even other hunters I know. A dog needs to be culled for whatever reason and instead of humanely removing it from the gene pool they either want to try and make a dollar off of it, or they don’t have the will to cull it and so they pass the problem on to someone else. Maybe some of that comes with hard learned experience, I know a lot of people that will tolerate the same dog fighting over and over again. I had a dog kill my best dog and now any unwarranted aggression gets dealt with immediately on my yard, and I’m not passing an aggressive dog on to so somebody else’s yard. But, people do it all the time, or they keep that dog around making excuses until they learn the hard way like I did.


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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2022, 09:57:26 am »

I think it’s a combination of several factors. A lot of people are using packs of rough dogs and they think just because the dog is caught when they arrive that it’s a catch dog. That is without regard to where he caught, or any of the other traits related to a walk in, such as how he goes to a bay, or how consistent he is with an accurate catch. I see a ton of people bragging about a catch dog or an RCD that they have but every picture or video you see, the dog isn’t even on the ear. As a pack that can/does work, but in my opinion it disqualifies the dog from being a legitimate solo catch dog.

I think another part of it is the part time hog hunters, meaning those that look at it like a hobby that they do when they feel like it, not a lifestyle. That type of person might only hunt one time a month. So their catch dog might only get 12 hunts in a year. Well they have it catch a few pigs and all of a sudden it’s the most reliable, rock solid catch dog they’ve ever seen and they just have to get pups off of it. I think that’s BS. If the dog hasn’t been tested, hasn’t been on big rank boars, how do you know what you’re really feeding? That dog might take a whooping and then decide he’s a bay dog.

So to add to the RCD and part time hunter element, I think a lot of it is also people that genuinely don’t know what a good dog is. I don’t claim to have great dogs but I hope that I’m on the way to getting there, and I’ve hunted behind some good ones and I’ve talked with quite a few dog men that are much older and wiser than me, so I try to learn from everything I hear and see. I’ve seen a lot of people that decide they want to get in to hunting and they link up with some other part time hunters and none of them have really met or hunted with a true dog man to teach them some of these things that a lot of us on this forum would probably look at as common sense.

The final part of my rambling is culling. I see it all the time on the fb groups and even other hunters I know. A dog needs to be culled for whatever reason and instead of humanely removing it from the gene pool they either want to try and make a dollar off of it, or they don’t have the will to cull it and so they pass the problem on to someone else. Maybe some of that comes with hard learned experience, I know a lot of people that will tolerate the same dog fighting over and over again. I had a dog kill my best dog and now any unwarranted aggression gets dealt with immediately on my yard, and I’m not passing an aggressive dog on to so somebody else’s yard. But, people do it all the time, or they keep that dog around making excuses until they learn the hard way like I did.


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Pride is the down fall of a lot of men these days..   And your last sentence reminded me of a guy I use to hunt with...  We had a good bay goin yrs ago when he brought two catch dogs that day..  Surely two cds is enuff so I left ours at the house..  LESSON Bought for me too...   He sent both of them to it and I knew the gyp would classify in my book as a catch dog but didnt know about the male he had just recently got.  My male dog and his male was baying a good boar hog in some crp grass and we were blessed to be able to get within sight upon release.  WEll,, the male dog was quick to catch alright,,, but it was my male dog while he was bayed instead of the hog that he was baying..    So now we had a dog fight and a hog fight..   Thank god my male dog had a cut collar on and I broke the cd off of my male without any physical damage to his throat.. 
Well,, needless to say I wasnt too happy with the situation and in some hard words I told my buddy to not bring this prize possession back and if it was me I would lesson the feed bill ,, immediately..  Well he didnt cause he wanted to give him another chance,,  that chance cost him the next month as that dime a dozen cd got off his lead at his house and killed his #1 strike dog in his yard..   Lesson learned for sure..
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2022, 10:24:49 am »

What’s easiest, selling pups for $500 and up or selling a dog that has been worked with regularly to have manners and has seen enough consistent hunts to know where his mark is and with no other dog on the hog can catch and secure it solo? It’s a no brainer! People have no standards and are extremely lazy. As said, many have no idea what a “good true catch dog” is because they themselves are other green or never seen one. A large percentage of people have no idea of a dog’s potential. Too many think that just because a dog will put teeth on a hog that he’s a catch dog. I myself have a list that qualifies a dog as a catch dog. My list and the next guys list are probably different and that’s ok. The problem comes if there is too much variance. What works for person won’t necessarily work for the next style. Many people have no respect for the dogs in my opinion. I’m gonna probably ruffle feathers here but it’s MY OPINION not the gospel. I’m not going to stand around doing a photo shoot of dog that’s caught on a big hog with no help. I’m not gonna send them to a hog unvested. If I think enough of the dog to take him to the woods then I think enough of him to do my part. Yeah the hog is caught and not going anywhere. There is still pressure on the dog. No matter what, that dog is giving weight to a bada$$. If you don’t think it a bada$$ then you catch it and hang onto it by the ear while I take pictures. I’ve heard it said a dog had to prove they are worthy of a vest before they get one. It only takes that one wrong shot for things to go bad. That dog may never get an opportunity to prove himself. Being green increases those odds. I can understand taking a green dog in and sending them unvested to a hog that can’t hurt them, that’s different. Every dog that puts teeth on a hog without baying is not a catch dog and doesn’t need to be bred just because they do. They need to meet a bunch more criteria. People don’t use good sense and a vast majority don’t understand the meaning of “game”. You show me a “dead game” animal and I’ll show you an animal that can be made to quit. EVERYTHING has a limit when put in the right circumstances, EVERYTHING! Catch dog game is all that is required for my catch dogs. That means they better give once of themselves until it is physically impossible. I return I’m gonna do my part by hunting them healthy. They are gonna fed well, wormed regular, good sleeping and kennel conditions, protective gear(vest/tracking collar), and I’m gonna get in there and assist instead of doing a photo shoot or waiting for someone else to get there to help ME or make it excuses as to it’s too thick or they’re in the water or some bs.  Anyway, enough rambling. Bottom line is good bulldogs/catch dogs are hard to find because of ignorance, lack of intestinal fortitude, and the all mighty dollar.


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Rough curs
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2022, 09:39:40 pm »

The dog trade page on this site says it all. I see some of the same guys selling half a dozen different bulldogs in a month. Where ith are they all coming  from and why are there so many.
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JB Garcia
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2022, 09:45:03 pm »

Probably just lots of poor training
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2022, 09:51:54 pm »

Lol, part of my post got chopped off, just having alittle fun guys. Id like to encourage yall and say its gonna get better but id be lieing.
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I am t-dogs mentor
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2022, 10:42:39 pm »

Probably just lots of poor training


Hahaha lol. Thanks for the laugh britt
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t-dog
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2022, 11:30:17 pm »

I think there’s also another aspect that contributes. Some folks are just about catching hogs and as long as that happens they don’t really care. That’s ok, to each their own. I know there are a lot of us though that enjoy watching good dog work. Dogs finding and locating, dogs baying, relaying, etc. are some of the good dog work aspects but there is a lot of good dog work that comes from the catch dog end as well. Everything from the way they handle to the bay to the things they do to make a good catch once they are sent to how they handle after the catch. A good catch dog can eliminate so much stress and headache in a hunt just like a poor one can create it or add to it. The other day my nephew legged and threw a hog that my Loki dog had caught. The bay dogs come past right on the heels of another one and he let go and helped run the other one down a few yards away and caught it. Yes this could be bad in the wrong situation but he had enough sense to know the first hog was under control as all the pressure the from that hog was gone with it being thrown. He’s got quite a few hogs under his belt now. I think his largest solo hog was 310 but has a couple more that right there within a few pounds of that. He still learning and getting better all the time. He’s got his range down pretty good. He knows if the bay breaks and he hasn’t caught within about 150 yards to come back to me and we’ll get it at the next bay. Not having to lead him to and from a bay makes it a world easier on a fella too. I’m not saying I’m a dog god or that he’s the greatest but trying to give examples of things that help qualify a dog as good in my book. He would be further along if I wasn’t concentrating so hard on young bay dogs this last year or so. It doesn’t take that long if a dog is smart and wants to please you.


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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 07:21:37 am »

I think you hit the nail on the head there T-dog folks don't care about the quality of the bulldog as much as they should.Another problem is people are just breed crazy like the guys that just get in the sport they go to breeding their first dogs to their buddies first dogs and spreading that crap around and 99% of the with very few exceptions the first dogs a fella owns who's starting out are probably junk because it's not even easy to find good dogs if you know a ton of men in the sport and have been doing it forever.Breeding Unproven Dogs based on looks or just plain ignorance.It takes time and  forethought to get the right breeding done for example the Ellie female who Muddy owns that we just bred to Dozer was bought as a 8wk old pup 2.5yrs ago to specifically breed to Dozer because of her lineage which are all high quality catchdogs of correct size and style we actually bought two at the same time from two different lines and only one made the grade.So this breeding has been planned out and worked on for a few yrs.Dozers line is down to littermates of his and that's it so it was very important to find the right family and more importantly the right dog who proved to be for the outcross. If folks would try a little harder to be responsible breeders of bulldogs there wouldn't be as much garbage floating around the world and the internet lol.
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2022, 08:02:58 am »

To me it’s because there not contested like they were 30 yrs ago. So it’s left to fellas like us. And like stated even most hunters don’t know what a good dog is. And they breed way to much


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Reuben
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2022, 11:15:10 am »

To me it’s because there not contested like they were 30 yrs ago. So it’s left to fellas like us. And like stated even most hunters don’t know what a good dog is. And they breed way to much


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I agree with this and what others have said…

Back in the 1980’s one could go to the dog pound and pick a pit bull and it would more than likely catch the first time out…
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2022, 10:01:34 am »

Finding someone that’s willing to raise one the right way and not be trying to get rid of the pup already at 8-10 weeks because it don’t catch is the hard part… I posted a litter a few weeks ago out of proven dogs. Which imo proven or not is a gamble. But didn’t get but a few people Interested. Several off here saying oh I want these hold them only to never show. Ended up with 5 left and pretty much giving them away.


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Reuben
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2022, 09:48:46 pm »

Another thing to consider…many hog hunters would rather keep a pack of strike dogs and keep enough for a breeding program and only keep one and at most two catch dogs…not enough for a decent breeding program…
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2022, 01:00:20 am »

You are entirely right Rueben, it takes more than one man working alone to keep a good line of catch dogs going. You need some others that you can trust to spread the genetics out enough that looking one dog doesn't put you out of business.
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Myles Man
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2022, 09:23:01 pm »

You guys are spot on for sure, for me —-It’s not so much as good bulldogs are hard to find, good people are hard to find - I’ve placed a lot of dogs out to work and can’t get much (if any)feedback on how the genetics are passing along from one generation to the next. I’ve got my select stock for sure, so I’m set, and with my 7th generation dropping (Lord Willin) mid July, I will for sure clarify expectations and specify how critical it is for updates on how the bloodline is progressing & performing.

http://apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=734089

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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2022, 07:23:21 pm »

Like said most people can't be trusted with em and lot people still think you can just go get a bulldog and it be a catch dog and lot of em don't care if it's got any since or anything if it will run to dogs baying and catch a hog wherever they hit it it's a catch dog you about to have to breed your own now to keep any decent bulldogs for sure I know this young male I have now I have been breeding towards for a while and he has sure enough been impressing me so far

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l.h.cracker
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2022, 04:25:08 pm »

Myles I have some feed back on a couple grown dogs yall sold to my buddy on here.
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2022, 07:41:00 am »

Oh snap, it’s a miracle ! It’d be nice to see them and hear how they are doing, good and bad traits are hit n miss sometimes, dang inbred dogs can be hard to figure out
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« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2022, 04:53:40 am »

Very expensive miss.
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