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Author Topic: Heat Cycle’s  (Read 474 times)
Reuben
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« on: September 03, 2022, 02:05:22 pm »

Years ago, before the internet I was reading an article about heat cycles in female dogs…the article was an actual study performed in some college…it was saying that the heat cycle is triggered by the length of day, they used an artificial light that mimics sunlight and were able get the females to start their cycles…
I have seen when I kennel two females together, they will get along just fine until one or both start their heat cycles and then the war is on…they will need to be separated…I cannot say this is always true on account it is only a few observations that I have made but it’s something interesting to think about…
Right now I have two nice females but favor one over the other and both are really nice…the one I favor was  showing signs of coming in heat, and during feeding time I would let them loose together…well they got into a serious fight and when I saw what was happening the one I favored was losing the fight and was submitting to her sister…she was further along in her cycle but she came out of heat and her sister eventually started her cycle…even after the fight I continued to turn them out together and I could see that the dominate female was making sure to remind the other who was boss…after thinking about what happened I am making sure there is no rank among them because I am the alpha and the only alpha in the yard, no pecking order here…
My plans for breeding Storm went south…and this incident got me to thinking about the ways of the wolves…in most cases, it is one female that comes in heat and that female is the alpha female…so it is possible that if a subordinate female is starting to go into her cycle the alpha female nips it in the bud…this ensures survival of the fittest and also keeping their population in check…and the day will come when another younger and more fit subordinate female will rise to alpha status…again, this ensures survival of the fittest out in the wild where human intervention is not possible, or kept to a minimum…not saying all this is fact but it is personal theory…

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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
t-dog
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2022, 10:50:35 pm »

So my questions to you are these, does it make you reconsider which is the better female or which one you should be breeding? If Mother Nature is taking charge here should you second guess your choice?

I never gave the length of the day much thought or consideration with dogs. I do know that chickens require X amount of hours of light a day to lay. That’s why they put lights on them as well.


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jsh
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2022, 07:45:57 am »

I’ve got two staghound/AB females (sisters) that have been kenneled next to each other their entire lives and have bonded like I’ve never seen two dogs before. You can feed them out of the same bowl.  They turned 10 in June. They cycle twice a year, every year same exact time. Not saying the article isn’t true, just contributing facts from my experience.
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Reuben
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2022, 08:47:36 am »

JSH…the two females I have tend to guard their food bowls and another dog doesn’t have to be very close when they do…

When I write it is to bring up topics that we do not talk about very often and are based on personal experience’s and I develop my theories from those experiences…day in and day out I will say most gyps in estrus will react more like what I described…but then it could be more because of the type of dog I like…

T-dog…as you know dogs evolved from human intervention…both females are nice for hunting and  breeding…the one I prefer is not as heavy build and has a better coat, both have good conformation as far as bone structure goes…I did breed the female on account I am short on good dogs…I haven’t felt this good about a breeding in a good while…hoping I get a few good ones out of this cross…

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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
t-dog
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2022, 10:48:37 am »

I hope you get some good ones too. Being excited is what you should be. You have to breed to the type in order to get the type for sure.


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Austesus
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2022, 09:37:02 am »

Reuben, I’m curious how the altercation between the two cycling gyps has altered your opinion on which one to breed to? By that I mean what was the determining factor that made you second guess your decision? Did you not like the one that was your first pick being submissive?

As a kid I had a uncle (a turd that’s now disowned from the family) that always raised bulldogs and taught me the little bit that made me think I knew more about dogs than I really did. He was always big on wanting the most alpha/dominant puppy out of a litter. These dogs weren’t working dogs although they have made pretty decent catch dogs here and there, he just kept them as pets/yard dogs. What I found after messing with them for a few years was that the alpha dogs usually gave me the most problems. In recent years I have started to pay more attention to the slightly more submissive dogs. It seems like they will mind their own business and worry about hunting more instead of trying to dominate the other dogs around them, and are less likely to get in to fights. I have friends that go to both ends of that isle, picking either the baddest meanest puppy of the bunch, or the little runt in the corner. I find myself liking someone that’s sort of in the middle.

I agree with you on YOU being the alpha. I will let young pups (12 weeks and younger) scrap it out with very little intervention because I think that’s necessary for their social behavior and establishing a pecking order to prevent more serious fights as they age. Once they get older, I don’t tolerate any scraps at all and I will give out the pain to both parties equally. I was told years ago that if you only correct the problem starter, then you embolden the weaker dog and make them think they should be winning the fights. I’ve not had a real dog fight on my yard in years, and I think it’s because of the way I break them. I will get very very hard on one for fighting because they only get 1-2 chances before I cull them and be done with it.


Sorry to sort of derail your topic, I was just curious on your thoughts with the breeding decision and behavior correction. As always, good discussions are fun!


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Reuben
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2022, 12:04:17 pm »

Austin…your posts are always interesting and I enjoy reading them…

I don’t mind a little skirmish among pups but not all out war to discover pecking order…instead I focus on casual corrections at feeding time and when other opportunities arise…I’ll feed 5 week to 8 week puppies a raw hog head first thing before feeding and I won’t allow any fighting and praise when they focus on the task at hand…

Pups…I will never pick a dominant pup that wants to show he is the boss and then constantly reminds the other pups that he or she is the boss…and like you said they tend to carry that trait in the field and in the breeding pen…I have seen pups that stood back away from aggression and appeared to be meek yet were almost like bulldogs on a hog and the more dominant dogs displaying more caution…I’ve seen that more than a few times…

On the two females…both are aggressive on a hog and both hunt really well…but the one I like is far better in appearance, a better coat and put together like I like them…she can jump pretty high and is quicker than her sibling…she can crawl out of a 6 ft. High kennel and then jump out…took a while to finally get her contained…

I bred her sister on account I am running low on good dogs and I know both will produce well…
The one I’m breeding is put together well but is smaller yet fairly thick and compact…

When Storm comes in heat I will breed her and will keep 3 or 4 pups from that litter…
I would like to get a few as good as that Ladner dog you talk about…once upon a time I had quite a few of those type of hunting dogs…

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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
Reuben
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2022, 12:14:19 pm »

I do like a pup and dog that is self assured and dominant but in a way that does not start trouble or is looking for an excuse to start a fight…it is a dog that minds it’s own business but can kick but when needed…I can not fault a dog that will defend itself or even tries to severely attack once riled up from being attacked…I expect that response from a good dog…
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
Reuben
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2022, 12:20:01 pm »

Austin…on what you said about when two dogs or pups are having a squabble…if you correct one the other will take it as you are helping to gang up…the correction needs to be for both…
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
Austesus
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2022, 09:40:32 am »

I think we are on the same page Reueben, you described a lot of what I like in a pup as well. I haven’t been hunting too much lately, don’t really have much interest until my pups are really going.

My male pup (now around 14 months old) didn’t have success with the semen collection. His sperm count was too low and they couldn’t get much quantity on account of not having a female in heat at the clinic. I have him on some supplements to help now. I decided a few months ago to breed that male to my dog Punk, his half sister. Unfortunately with him being the last living male I’m not putting him in the woods until I can either get his semen frozen or get that breeding accomplished. I have one time just to see how he did but I’m not playing with the fire with him. The pups won’t go to anyone outside of my hunting circle so I’m not concerned about passing out any culls. We have all had the talk that if they aren’t good enough for their yards then they will be culled, no passing around. I would rather come back and cull all of the pups than wish I had them but have that male get killed and then the line be done. At this point I’m just eagerly waiting on punk to come back in heat.

I also have two Parker gyps that I got directly from Mr. Larry that I’m looking forward to starting towards the end of winter/beginning of spring. Other than them being a little timid/shy I really like them around the yard. They are extremely athletic. If my male Leroy ends up making a good dog and produces well on that other litter then I plan to cross him over both Parker gyps (obviously if they prove themselves) and then take those two litters back together so that I’m just using him as an outcross for the Parkers.


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