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Author Topic: Cut vests / plates  (Read 628 times)
t-dog
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« on: October 17, 2022, 11:47:31 am »

This has been touched on a few times but it’s that boring season so thought it was worth touching on again. What is your opinion of cut vests or plates, whichever you run? By opinion I mean length, leg flaps, chin guards, layers, etc.

I had a vest built to what I thought I would like. So far I do. It’s hot here way more than it’s cold. That was one of my top two considerations, the other is mobility. I think the biggest amount of catchdog punishment is taken in the chest, neck, and front shoulder areas. For this reason I like the leg flaps. They have zero affect on the dogs mobility or adding heat. They also take a lot of punishment that the dog would otherwise have to take. Their worth has been shown by the damaging cuts on them on every vest I’ve had them on. I also like the three overlapping flaps as opposed to one large one.  I’m not a fan of the chin guard. IN MY OPINION, dogs that take a lot of cutting in the chin do so because of their style. It’s not a style that I personally care for so I don’t hunt dogs that have it. It may be fine by others and that’s ok by me, just not my preference. I also think it can affect mobility at times. A lot of times it just ends up being folded down as well. It’s useless when that happens. I personally don’t see a reason for the vest to wrap all the way around the dog. For this reason I had the straps lengthened and the vest cut down so that it doesn’t come all the way up over their back. I had the cut collar area shortened in length as well. I think this allows at least a little heat to escape. I also run my garmin collar on top of my dogs neck instead of underneath. I do this because I think it would hurt like heck to get those prongs jabbed in their throat by a hog when they get hit there. I had the collar strap closest to the shoulders removed and run my tracking collar there. The body of the collar stays there on top good because the cut collar is on either side to keep it from rolling to the side or underneath. The picture was drawn to show it good enough but there are only two back straps. The front one would be directly over the shoulders. I like that one pulled snug but not overly tight so that it pinches the shoulders and restricts the shoulders from
moving. If you drew a line straight down from the strap furtherest back, it would come down about 2-3” behind the back
of the leg hole. The underbelly of the vest goes back to about the end of the rib cage and tapers forward as it goes up to the back strap. I don’t run the back strap very tight so that there is plenty of room for the ribs to expand and for mobility. There is a D ring on the front shoulder strap if I need to leash the catch dogs. I hunt my catch dog off leash. They stay with me until I send them on command so I don’t use it a lot. I’ve been running it for just over a year and so far it’s been great. I’m not convinced that a whole bunch of layers are necessary. My thought process is this, I’ve had cut throughs on several vests. None of those cut throughs resulted in more than a very minor knick on the dog. I know it happens but it isn’t the norm. If you think about cuts the dogs get you know that the skin cut and the muscle cut usually don’t line up perfectly. This is the case because the skin rolls in the direction of the force applied. The vest is a thicker, tougher skin so to speak. It also rolls in the direction of the force but because it is  a separate body it separation which keeps the hog from getting into actual tissue. Again, there are always exceptions. I think the outer layers of cordura and a couple layers of Kevlar are enough, especially with cross stitching. I
like a lot of cross stitching because I think it limits fraying where the vest gets cut and I think it keeps the vest from snagging so easy and causes it to roll more. Maybe not but that’s what my simple mind has convinced me of. Here are a couple drawings to show what I did roughly.

What are your opinions?




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TheRednose
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2022, 02:41:24 pm »

I agree with most of your thoughts.

I have always liked the straps that go over the top to be long so there was more of an opening up there for cooling.

Also I agree with your theory on how the skin rolls from the cutting but I do like an extra layer of Kevlar not so much for the cuts but for the direct stabs to the chest where the skin doesn't roll due to the angle. The first vest I ever bought had a chest plate in it just for that, but my new one does not so I added the extra layer of kevlar. I think a lot vests went away from the chest plate for better flexion and less weight but I have always been curious of the Ausie style plates because the dogs look super mobile in them. I also got one that had less layers of cordura and more kevlar for weight and mobility.

I still like putting their collar on the normal way but to each their own. The taper from the back to the underbelly the way you drew it is nice too and some of the new ones I have seen are coming that way. All in all I think you have some good and well thought out ideas.
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jsh
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2022, 05:31:53 am »

I agree with you on the extra layers - not always necessary. I also agree that most of the hits occur in the chest and shoulder area, BUT the worst injuries I’ve encountered were underneath the body, armpit and sides behind the shoulders. Although those are the more uncommon spots, they usually produce the most trauma and even at times lethal. For that reason, I run my vests with as much coverage as I can toward the back.

I do have some experience with plates - several different brands/types. I’ve studied hours of video from TRUE one dog out guys in Australia and what I have gathered are mainly two things. That is open country and those are big, tall dogs. Way bigger than anything I run. Seems like those dogs use their size and height to their advantage. They spread their front legs to create leverage while catching which really keeps that plate between them and the pig, but who knows - maybe they go through a bunch of dogs - they are not going to put that on video.

I’ve had people tell me it’s catch style and my dogs aren’t holding “clean” or the plate should work. Baloney. Show me a dog that can hold clean in briars or the water and I’ll kiss your a$$. I personally watched a big boar get underneath one of my females why she was caught on the ear and go to work in her armpit/chest area. The only thing there to protect her on that plate was a little 2” seatbelt strap. From that moment on I was done with the plate. If I was 100% dropping cds on crops or open fields I may consider them. Maybe it’s me and  I don’t have the right type of dogs for them, but that’s my opinion and experience. I run the Wild Boar guardian on my cds. I like them large and a tad loose. They have always performed well for me and I’ve watched my dogs run down plenty of pigs. I sacrifice the heat factor, but I’ll deal with that.

TDog that is a very nice and well planned vest. As long as a vest fits the dog and it’s style it’s a good vest. I’ve seen a lot of good hogs caught in the cheapest vest you could buy. To each his own and whatever works. All we can do is protect these animals the best we can.
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t-dog
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2022, 11:04:43 am »

jsh I agree with you. I think size and terrain are what make the plates feasible for the Aussie style dogs. It is absolutely different in the mangled briars, for any size dog. It isn’t always an option to get around to the side of the hog and out of the way or in a position where they can get leverage to control the head best. I like the three leg flaps for that armpit scenario you mentioned. I also use the same vest as you. It’s the vest I had altered to what I wanted. I chose to taper it back further underneath to try and prevent that area more. My thinking is that most of the blows are going to be taken in the lower portion of the body. The hog is going to be trying to get under the dog because that’s what gives them leverage. They are going to swing or hook upwards or side to side. For that reason the dogs don’t take AS much punishment up higher.

Rednose I use to run a two piece (cut collar/vest) as well. After I lost a real nice little catch dog because he took a perfect shot between the two, I quit. I also think it’s too much. I run my garmin under the vest instead outside of it. Having the cut collar built onto the vest makes that much easier and eliminates the chance of that lucky seem shot. I have watched my dogs flex in the two piece rig and TO ME, the one pice set up just allows more flexibility. As said though, no right or wrong just personal preference.


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TheRednose
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2022, 11:05:43 am »

I agree with you JSH that it seems the plates are most advantageous for the tall dogs especially the ones that are tall enough to ear up and then face up. I think for smaller catchdogs the US style vests work much better. But that is just my opinion.
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TheRednose
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2022, 11:14:59 am »


Rednose I use to run a two piece (cut collar/vest) as well. After I lost a real nice little catch dog because he took a perfect shot between the two, I quit. I also think it’s too much. I run my garmin under the vest instead outside of it. Having the cut collar built onto the vest makes that much easier and eliminates the chance of that lucky seem shot. I have watched my dogs flex in the two piece rig and TO ME, the one pice set up just allows more flexibility. As said though, no right or wrong just personal preference.


Yeah I'm not sure on the two piece setup as I have only ran one piece vests but one had an actual chest plate one does not. The one that doesn't he moves much better in and is far lighter though it has two layers of kevlar more. This is why I like it the best of what I have seen. I would like the taper you drew though.
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Shotgun66
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2022, 06:41:16 am »

I run Wild Boar USA Guardian & Devastator vests on my CDs. Both set ups offer adequate protection and mobility when fitted properly. Great value & durability. The Devastator is a touch lighter without the attached collar & chin flap so you typically run a cut collar/2 piece set up with it. JSH is right about running them a little big/loose to help with mobility and heat management. I keep 3”, 4”, and 5” cut collars on hand to pair with the devastator depending on the dog. I run Garmin tracking collars in front of the cut collar on the Devastator and turn it to the side on the guardian. Love the leg flaps. Don’t care for the chin flaps.
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Tried Hardcore, P&P, Southern Cross and had a plate set up that hung on a nail and never got used. Couldn’t bring myself to trust it. Always come back to the Wildboar vests.
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I agree with TDog about heat management being very important to us here in Texas. I started taking a different approach to managing heat after hunting with some cowboy buddies in OK. These guys didn’t vest their CDs until they got to the bay. They carried the vests on their horse, got off and vested the dog right before sending it. Removed the vest immediately after the hog was under control. They also had excellent recall on their CDs on a busted bay. They taught me a lesson and I went to work applying it immediately.
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NOTHING works all the time or in every situation but my CD damage has been significantly reduced by using two properly vested catch dogs with obedience type handle…….and I dam sure don’t miss getting jerked around by a cd on a lead!
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t-dog
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2022, 07:07:10 am »

Shotgun what you just described is exactly how I do it. Wait until there to vest and be able to call the dog back from a busted bay. If it isn’t caught in a 100-150 yards they need to come back. A catch dog that settles down quick and that you can get unvested can catch several hogs in the heat.


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Austesus
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2022, 11:06:44 am »


Not a great picture of it, but this is my favorite vest I have as far as strike dog vests. I don’t have a dedicated catch dog so I can’t comment on that side of things.

This is the Elite strike vest from Southern Cross, I had them enlarge the leg holes a little bit too. I like the leg holes to fit to where you can grab the dogs front paws and stand them up on their back legs (think like they’re stretched out in a full run) and have the vest not bind up their legs at all in the range of motion. This vest is my favorite style on the collar portion as well because of the collar box. It has 100% saved my collars on multiple occasions as evident by a couple of good cuts on the box and around the collar. Dogs don’t seem to get too hot in it either.

I would not use a chin flap because we hunt in swamps and around water so much, and have heard of quite a few incidents where dogs drowned or almost drowned because of water flooding in over the top of that flap and pulling them down. If there was one thing I would change about this vest it is the holes in the straps. The end up getting ragged out over time, and in my opinion need a metal grommet at the holes. At some point I will probably see if I can find someone to add metal grommets on to this vest at the holes, other than that it has held up great. The d ring on the chest is really nice for rigging too.

Great thread Thomas!


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t-dog
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2022, 04:26:25 pm »

Austesus, I’m not 100% sure from the photo and my old eyes, but is your collar box in the throat of the vest or on the neck?

I like to run my collar box on the top of the neck. One I think it would hurt like hell to get the prongs mashed into their throat by a big knarly hog. Second I think the box restricts some downward movement of the dog. There are times when they need to be able to tuck their chin and that isn’t possible with that box there, IMO. If the box is on top it doesn’t interfere with any movement. Third, way fewer blows are taken to the top of the neck vs the throat area so the collar body takes way less blows which is protecting it. Just my opinions though. I try to give my dogs every advantage possible and take care of my equipment too.


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The Old Man
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2022, 04:20:54 pm »

Your second drawing is nearly identical to the Hardcore ss short speed suit I have been using a couple years. I have gotten along with it real well on Ol'Grip. They are double kevlar which makes them light and flexible and it don't absorb enough water to matter.
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t-dog
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2022, 06:29:10 pm »

I remember you getting one of those old man. I remember you saying you liked it at the time but hadn’t had it long then I don’t think. I think that vest you have is the closest thing to what I had done. I started to try one myself but being that I’m not too awful far from wild Boar it was just as easy to go in and ask for exactly what I thought I wanted in person. I hate trying to do stuff like this via email, or text, and even over the phone. In my simple mind there’s just less confusion.


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Austesus
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2022, 06:33:43 am »

T-Dog, the box is on the throat where it would normally sit. They have a full covered box that is part of the vest Kevlar, so the collar box sits inside of it and then the straps feed through a slit and wrap around it he outside of the cut collar. So if the strap gets gets cut the collar can’t come off, and the box is entirely encased by the Kevlar. I see what you’re saying about it getting jammed in to their neck, I have not thought about that aspect before. From a mobility standpoint I have not seen any issues with it, doesn’t seem to hinder their movements at all.

I have not seen or thought about a box for the collar being on top, that would actually be ideal if they made this vest with that option and just had it on the back of the neck in a way that would not hinder their head movement. I’ve gotten a few good cuts that would have been directly on the collar had it not been covered, so far no issues. I could still see there being a problem if the impact was hard enough to break the solder on the GPS wire.

Here’s a better pic showing the collar box.



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t-dog
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2022, 09:34:38 am »

For sure it’s taken a couple of shots. My vest doesn’t have a Kevlar cover for the collar. The way this vest is built, the cut collar part of it has a wide enough space where it normally come all the way together, that the box sits there without rolling under. Since I quit putting it on the under side and started placing it on top, I haven’t had any collar damage. I have the collar inside the vest so that all that is exposed is the box and part of the antenna. It helps keep the hogs from grabbing and chewing on the antenna as well. I haven’t had any reception issues doing it this way either.


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