EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

1451 has been signed into law by Gov. Perry, Not good news for any of us. Its a slippery slope we are on now. I encourage all here who were not active in calling and writing Austin this session to make it a priority next session. To all those who did make the effort, Thanks.

Join TDHA, join LSWDA, and a better idea is to join BOTH, and any other group that is working to speak for the hunting/working dog owners of Texas.

1451 is the first of many steps for HSUS. We need a bigger voice and a more organised effort next session. Make no mistake they want to run us out of business.

Thanks,
Paul T

TDHA will begin working immediately to see how we can have some influence and impact on the commission that will be writing all the new rules for dog breeders in the state of Texas.

Silverton,

Thanks for keeping us informed and hopefully we can stop this at some point in time.
I believe that our politicians see HSUS and PETA as more united than we as hunters, fisherman, and dog men and women are. And I believe that because of this, the politicians are more interested in what those groups want passed into law and as a result try to please them and not us. The politicians are more interested in staying elected than in our cause. Besides, I am willing to bet that the majority of politicians have never hunted or fished, much less ever hunted with dogs.

We need to unite just like you are saying that we need to do, and to also contribute funds as needed, and for us to become the force that is needed to overcome these radical groups. The politicians need to see that we are bigger and more organized than PETA, USUS, and other similar groups.
These groups have slowly lobbied to pass laws that seem small but over a period of time, when these laws that seem so trivial are combined together...become lethal to our sport and way of life...

We need to copycat them as to how they go about raising money and then using it to further our cause.

Sickening. Well, I think I will be campaigning against Perry if he should seek the presidential nomination.

Cheers
M

HB 1451 has been signed into law, the people we elected did this, because we don't have a strong enough force too stop things like this.
Join with TDHA, LSWDA, or some group that is standing up.  Your vote doesn't count if you don't cast it.

I'm here too help in any way too get the best deal for the dog owner and dog hunter, with what we have too work with.

Follow the $$$$. It's all about the Benjamins..

 well said amokabs. i posted a topic about raising enough money to buy his vote. that fell on deaf ears but not blind eyes. it looks like being activly engaged in writting and calling austin didnt do no good. all them letters wrote was used to replace the charmin in the restrooms to save money. we are we gonna relise that both our state and federal government are not run by the people for the people, except those who have deeper pocketbooks? the government is ran by big buisseness not by the people who elected the politicians in office. our votes dont count anyhow, the corporations who back the political figures buy the seats in office. most are blind to this effect. hopefully most will wake up and see the light before its to late to take a stand.

I totally agree.

I read the language that exempts hunting dogs and livestock dogs, but so far I have talked to no one that fully understands it.

I know it will just be a matter of time before they try to tighten up even more, but the way the law is now, how do we stand? Anyone know?

It probably made it worse that Gov Perry is gonna make a run for President. How much you think HSUS and PETA will be donating to his campaign???  It don't matter he just screwed all the "little" people in Texas, he aint gonna be in Texas much longer, as he sees it. He won't be getting my vote.

I know I wont vote for him. He has made statements in the past on several issues that show his arrogance and lack of really giving a chit about what the people want and ask for.

I have never cared for him ever since he stepped on to the Texas political scene.

  In his eyes the people of Texas did want this I am sure. Can anyone post the bill where it talks about working dogs? Also, who is going to enforce this bill? I am sure it will be used when it has to but is anyone going to be looking to enforce it?

Here is the wording for the exemption, and the relevant "Definitions" from the state code.

Sec. 802.005.  EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN PERSONS WHO BREED  
   SPECIAL PURPOSE DOGS.
          (a) This section applies only to a dog bred  
   with the intent that it be used primarily for:
                (1)  herding livestock, as defined by Section 1.003,  
   Agriculture Code, or other agricultural uses;
                (2)  hunting, including tracking, chasing, pointing,  
   flushing, or retrieving game; or
                (3)  competing in field trials, hunting tests, or  
   similar organized performance events.
 
          (b)  This chapter does not apply to a person to the extent the  
   person breeds dogs described by Subsection
                (a) for personal use. A person described by this subsection
    may conduct direct or indirect sales or exchanges in return for consideration
    of dogs described by Subsection (a).
 
          (c)  Notwithstanding Subsection (b), a person described by  
   Subsection (b) may be subject to the requirements of this chapter  
   based on the person's activities with respect to animals other than  
   dogs that are bred and used as described by this section.
          (d)  Dogs described by Subsection (a) may not be counted for  
   purposes of determining the number of adult intact female animals  
   possessed by a person as described by Section 802.002(8).

Sec. 1.003.  DEFINITIONS.  In this code:(3)  "Livestock" means cattle, horses, mules, asses, sheep, goats, llamas, alpacas, exotic livestock, including elk and elk hybrids, and hogs, unless otherwise defined.

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONSSec. 161.001.  DEFINITIONS.  chapter:(1)  "Exotic livestock" means grass-eating or plant-eating, single-hooved or cloven-hooved mammals that are not indigenous to this state and are known as ungulates, including animals from the swine, horse, tapir, rhinoceros, elephant, deer, and antelope families.

  

(1)  herding livestock, as defined by Section 1.003, 
   Agriculture Code, or other agricultural uses;

Hogs are included in the term "Livestock" in the referanced Code.

"Other Agricultural Uses" to me would cover depridation control of feral hogs.

 (2)  hunting, including tracking, chasing, pointing, 
   flushing, or retrieving game; or

It appears to me that recreational hog hunting would be covered by this section, although there is no mention of "catching" with the dog. Bay dogs would be covered here I believe.

Remember, the appointed "Commission" can and will re-write the rule with more precise definitions. This could be good for us or very bad, I am betting on bad. Thus the reason for "us" to try and have an impact with the Commission.

 again, yaw are sying he aint gettn yaws vote. he dont need ur/our votes. if certain groups, ie: bildaburg, imf, or the tri-lateral commision want him in the presidential seat, he will get there no atter what. who do you think signed over the toll road tags too? perry. do yaw know who he sold it over to? a company in mexico, just so they can get the u.s./mexico trade roads open. have been aware they are buying up lands along all major routes from mexico leading through tx, like I35 and hwy 59 in east tx, that is for this north american union they are trying to implement. do the research and you can see for your self. perry sold out txdot to mexico and canada inorder to get the route through tx. yaw may call me crazy but i bet if we wouldv took 500k+ to perry, he may have said he wants more, named a figure, we met it, the bill wouldv been vetoed. he dont care about our votes, the groups mentioned above needed him in office to get them roads started, and may still need him in the oval office. do your research and then tell me im crazy.

The way I understand how PETA and HSUS works is that they believe they can get their way by taking away a little here and a little there and after a while they will have shut us down. The ultimate goal for them is to stop all types of hunting and fishing...and later I am sure that they will try and make vegetarians out of the general public.

All types of sports that involve animals will stop and this includes RODEO'S.

Right now any time we lose a priviledge, it is a small victory for them but a step in the right direction in optaining their ultimate goal.

At some point in time we will all unite and reverse what we have lost. UNITED WE STAND...DIVIDED WE FALL...

Spot on Reuben

  here is a link with a lil digging on my slow net. http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/nafta_superhighway_debate_inflames_tx_gov_race.htm , another 1 http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497 ,i will post more to read, and hopefully it aint to late. http://www.propagandamatrix.com/watsonrptbilderberg1.html , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants , wow look who is a member, GovernorsRick Perry (2007),[30] Governor of Texas 2000-current
Mark Sanford (2008),[31] Governor of South Carolina

For what its worth, the Trans Texas corridor was to be built in a joint venture with a Spanish owned company, not Mexican, and Zachry Construction. I worked for Zachry when it was done and I was PO'd then.

So Paul, the commission will write the rules and that will be what we have to live by? Will they be in place Sept 1 you think?

I like nothing about this bill. But just saying, I could live with the 11 intact females part, but the 20 pups is pure BS. In my mind that means I had better not go over 19.

While i do have 2 litters of Britts due in the next 3 weeks, that is not my norm. I hope for a litter a year. My BMCs wont be very regular, but when you have to stay abreast of crap like this when it's not needed just chaps my backside!

Like I said before this is the way they get what they want. Baby steps. A little at a time and after a while, most folks dont even notice til it's too late.

Bobby "all" hunting dogs "should" be exempt from this law. Now we all know how this will play out. The commission, when seated,will make the rules and "should" follow the law as written, but the law leaves them with a ton of decisions to make on their own. I think it will take a while to put the commission together and for them to write the rule book, a year is my guess.

As written, the puppy number is 20 or more "sold", that are not hunting dogs.

We as a group need to work on the commission to beef up the definition of hunting and working dogs, that would help. But I would expect for HSUS to let the hunters and ranchers slide for a little while and then remove the exemptions on us and get the numbers down to where they want them "three intact females", to qualify as a commercial breeder. Three females is their goal.

Sad part of all of this is , there is a real need for some of this with some of the breeders out there.

For years during the late 70's and early 80's my Grandmother , raised German Shepherds and showed them , then switched to small dogs, LLasos, poodles, Wire haired Fox terriers and the like. I am guessing she had over 20 gyps at some time and sold a lot of pups.

But she took excellent care of her dogs, converting a garage apartment into a nursery and whelping house, and big outdoor runs , all cleaned every day. and if she didnt like you, you didnt get one of her pups.

If the rotten sobs that run the puppy mills this is supposed to take care of would all tend to business the way she did, they would have had a leg to stand on to start with.

Sad times these. Short of a full blown revolution, I dont see them getting better.

What I see is that hunting and fishing is getting more expensive and less people are hunting and fishing because of this.

Other reasons for not hunting/fishing has to do with tougher laws and higher prices for hunting/fishing liscences.

Ranches have been divided and less property to hunt therefore less hunters.

Times are getting tighter and more people are not keeping dogs as pets. According to what I learned in the hunters course is that 80% of the public fall into a non hunting/fishing catagory. These folks are slowly being conditioned to side with the animal rights activist in that they could vote for what PETA and HSUS stand for. Politicians are starting to see this so they are starting to cater to these groups because they want to win elections.

I also see where some teachers are teaching our kids to be kind to animals which is great. I also believe that some of this early training is creating mixed signals in the kids minds so that they are growing up to side with these radical groups.

Bobby, what you are saying about puppy mills is right on... and PETA and HSUS know this so they are targeting the 80% of the public that can vote in either direction by running  sentimental commercials that are effective in swaying some of the 80% of the nonfishing/nonhunting public into siding with them.

I BELIEVE THE TIME HAS COME WHEN ALL ANIMAL CLUBS AND ANY ANIMAL ORGINIZATION, INCLUDING ALL TYPES OF SPORTING DOG, HUNTING AND FISHING ORGANIZATIONS AND THE NRA, NEED TO UNITE SO THAT WE CAN BE A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH...

WE NEED TO RUN COMMERCIALS JUST LIKE PETA AND HSUS ABOUT HOW WE CONTRIBUTE TO WILDLIFE AND WILDLIFE HABITAT AND ALL THE POSITIVE THINGS THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF OUR CONTIBUTIONS FROM HUNTING LISCENCES ETC ETC.

WE NEED TO GET IN THE PUBLIC EYE WITH POSITIVE COMMERCIALS AND ADVERTISEMENTS...

I reckon you can call this Reubens ramblings but this is how I see it on this issue.

Hopefully, by all of us talking about, it just might create a spark that will create a movement that can, and will be a group that all lawmakers will listen to, and to cater to said group.

Here's a question for Paul or anyone that may can answer.

I received several email notices form AKC during all of this. I dont really care for AKC because they are all about the money as well, trying to sell you everything in the world when all you want to do is register a litter of puppies or something. But, they are who I have to deal with on my Brittanys.

The question is, did AKC put any money into defeating this? They stand to loose a lot here as well, because we know a lot of people will quit breeding, or when it happens and you can only have 3 females, more people will not step in and start breeding. The dog groups need to get in touch with AKC and see how they might be able to work together.

Bobby, I understand AKC and UKS both were onthe opposition list from the beggining. I recieved a card in the mail from UKC warning about 1451 and what to do.

Thats why I find it so hard to believe as namy groups and people were on the opposition, calling, mailing, faxing HOW COULD IT STILL GO THROUGH?

Bobby I don't know if AKC hired any lobbyist or donated any money to groups with lobbyist, I would assume the answer is yes.

TDHA, as a member of "TOPS" and "RPOA" is helping to support lobbyist in Austin supporting our cause. TDHA just sent an extra $500 to RPOA to help pay for the lobbing this session. We will be ready to make significantly larger donations for the next session as well as working directly with the law makers in Austin.

We all, individually and as groups, need to do a better job of funding lobbyist that are targeting problem areas. We also need a more unified voice from all the dog groups.

The answer is money, organization, and a quality argument spoken with one very big, very loud voice.

This is one of the alerts I received from AKC. I think I got 3 total.

http://links.mkt2242.com/servlet/MailView?ms=MzQ3MjY1NwS2&r=MTc0NzgyOTM3MTgS1&j=MTA5NDE1OTA3S0&mt=1&rt=0

But he vetoed the no texting while driving bill

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/politics/061711-perry-vetoes-texting-while-driving-bill

Here is a little bit of info for those that don't know what happened.

The ONLY reason this got through the Senate and was signed by the Gov. is because of the hunting/working dog exemption.

Thats right.....if the hunting/ working dog exemption had not been added, 1451 would have been dead in the water in the Senate.

That is the word from my Senator's office, and was one of the reasons RPOA threw such a fit over the exemptions because they knew what was about to happen. The hunting/ working dog groups that worked with Whitmire on the hunting/wording dog exemption unwittingly assured the passage of 1451. I forget who the group was that did the work, I had not heard of them before, quail hunters I believe.

And make no mistake those exemptions will be watered down and then remove asap. then where are we.......We have got to look at the big picture at all times and not lose sight of the goal. That being to stop all of this type of legislation.

That was a good move on their part. It was like putting good bait in a trap...

To me it is like sacrificing a little to gain a lot...or lose a small battle but win the war...

in this case it is to lose a battle but setting up to win the war.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND NOT GET TUNNEL VISION...


 

I'd like to know what group it was. Bird hunters dont really have a united front to speak of. But Bird hunters also tend to be a little heaver in the pocket book and have connections in Austin. I am betting they thought it was a good deal and never discussed any of it with the rest that were fighting it.

Just more god ole boy Texas politics