EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Am no dummy I know its gonna happen here and there but you can bet your sweet ass if my dogs dont pull hair jump in with the catch dog and help I aint gonna own them .  After today and tonite I just aint going there no more .  I should have left my dogs alone here four years ago instead of taken some of the ruffness out of them .   This is a cryin ass shame that  hogs run like this .  We chased hogs from 2.15 pm to after 8 pm today over six hours straight and didnt get a nar one of them sob's run then bay then break then bay then we almost get there and break and run break and run bay and break run and bay .   Loose dogs just aint for me I dont have the proptery to hunt them on with these kinds of hogs .  4000 acres use to be plenty big but so far this year everytime I have been on this place we have gotton off of it thats how bad the hogs run and we have gotton all that we ran off of it this year untill today . It was just unfreckin real man !

Am going back to staples I liked them better than all this BS .  I aint knocking anybodys dogs a man has what he likes but from now on for me its pull hair are get the hell out of here.

X2
Last couple runs had same thing happen...21mile chase was ridiculous! I was gonna breed some of the roughness out but Idk now....

I would not mess with it man if it was me I did the same thing here three four years ago and have live to regret it ,  it just dont work here were am at maybe great some place else but it does not work here I have had them loose baying dogs snatch the nuts kind makem face and then they take the hell off and never stop running .  I can tell ya one thing I want to see one of these super dogs that I hear about that can find stop and bay one of these big boys over here by themselves I know it might happen ever now and again hell I have them kind but it aint gonna happen very much over here I have had them dogs friends have had them dogs .  I have friends with some damn great dogs like that and they are going back to pullin hair because it just dont work that great around here u get one every once in a while and your run yourself to death chasing them and most the time end up with noting .   Every wonder why a long range loose baying dog has to have so much bottom I would imagine it is because he has to chase the hog till the hog falls over from Exhuation .  LOL   

These big boars are smart....they won't stop till they tire or you make em stop.
Then they will run to a group of sows and piglets to shake the dogs...
I also hunt with some super dogs that are loose and 1-5 miles later we get them back.
Is super hard to make them stop with one dog

Yeah man its just tuff all the way around .  Its either make them stop with enuff ruff dogs like you say are just run them till they fall out are you get your dogs back.  At least that is the way it is here were I hunt .  I tell ya tonite was just ridiculous they put a whooping on us  .

makees me feel better to hear this ! Not that I want anyone to deal with this but here that is all se deal with, all of our hogs are runners. All of em !
Like you sId we get one once in awhile but ya have to ask yurself when is enuff  enuff ?Cuple years ago I thought it was my dogs just werent hood enuff, I asked alot of people bout this, even on here I asked, some people told me about these super dogs too . Made a trip fo Ga last year to see if my dogs could stop hogs there and it was a totLly different game and totally different hog ! Dogs stopped hogs consistently the entire trip, like beein in heaven or sumpin ! Come back home same old story, run run run run runny run some more !
try to explain it to people aith alot more experience than me and they just dont understand ! So i go thru another year of chasin these things wwith minumal success start to doubt mu dogs again , go back to Ga and get about 16 hogs first day out !  Ive see hogs run ohtta a thicket in Ga ahead of dogs and stop at a river hump up and turn to fight, it dont work that wahy here, these hogs dont wait ! its grab em by their bed or ya not gona get em !!!!! People that havent been here do not understand !!  I sympathize and share in rustration bout the runners, if ya figure it out eas shRe wit me, I will pay THOUSANDs if some expert can sell me that super dog !!! f

I've hunted places where the straight catch type types have a hard time. The hogs hear the dogs coming and run.

A lot of times it's"dam if you do and dam if you don't"...when talking about rough or loose dogs...

Hadnt had my coffee when i made that last post, (typo heavy)!
I have had 15 and 20 mile races in this hillcountry and it will flat wupp a dog ! Ive carried em out more than once because they cant hardly walk. These long runs were always with open dogs,but they were the only dogs that Ive hD that would stick for thAt long.Those races are no fun but I would do that if it produced hogs.My silent dogs will only stick with a race thAt long if their with another dog that will. So I am always thinking if it would be better to just run em like this with some good hounds or keep doin it with these silent no bottom dogs. I definitley get on more hogs with the colder nosed hounds because we dont have alot of tracks to run to begin with, but when I have run those type dogs I cant say Ive caught those hogs.Several times they did bay or catch it after miles and miles but when they did they were so far out I coulnt get there in time. They can only hold one for so long. Because of this I switched back to hotter nosed dogs, definitely less bottom and I still question that.Wish I could find a cold nosed silent dog that was straight catch !

 >:D

What type of dogs you working? Maybe a dog with more stock working ability would work better. I think alot of folks are breeding this quality out of dogs which is a bad thing in my mind. I dont believe its a rough or loose answer to the runner problem.

One place I run is as bad as y'all's places. We have jumped hogs at 7 am and picked up dogs at 3pm with no hog on multiple occasion. I have hunted on occasion in different places where u could jump a hog and a couple hundred yards later or less was a bay. Seen folks that had jam up dogs that everyone thought were the best ever come to my place to spend 8 or more hours chasing dogs with no pork at end. My dogs ain't no super dogs. Heck they ain't even decent dogs but they can stop one of these runners from time to time.

A man has to have a pack that works where he hunts. If the guy that hunts 20 miles away doesn't like it who cares. It's about putting pork at the end.

Yeah my buddy I was with he is die hard die hard die hard hog dog man.  He is the man that took me on my first hog hunt back in 89 are so .  I guarantee you people will not meet a man that has more expedience when it comes to hog hunting with dogs.  A lot of folks don't like him because he will get straight up in your ars and tell you like it is been accused of a lot of things he has not done and took some bad wraps .  But when it comes to knowing hog dogs look out .  He has only hunted on this place with me a few times now and he said last nite Good Gawd man !  These hogs not only run but will flat put a whooping on your and run like I have never seen.  He said himself a man needs some good hound for those kind it would make a difference but I just ain't a full hound hunter neither really is he so I guess I will just keep trying to figure it out.  Yes you are right a river ain't gonna slow noting down over here .  I watched here a couple years ago we struck on a big big boar hog he like to have run over my son put him up a tree and took off with dogs all on his ars .  Tom and me were standing outside the wood line  this hog came out of the wood line doing Mach III he looked like a Hyena big big tall upper body and head and his ars looked like it was two foot lower than his front end.  He was scooting brother dogs right behind him but could not catch him we watched and this sucker his this open coastal patch and was headed straight for the river about 400 yd away we took off on the wheelers to try and catch up.   I thought for sure he was gonna slow down because the river bank at this place is 75 to a 100 foot nearly straight down man o man he never even slowed a bit he had it in the big  hole and bro he was humming when he went off that embankment I don't know how in the world he could do that and live but when we got there he was done across the river and up the other side .  Needless to say we didn't get him .  I also agree with what you said this .  You better hit them on there beds because they will turn and fight and then leave out .  You better have some dogs with some big balls you come over here they find him they better put some teeth on him and not one of them all of them if it is a big boar hog because he is gonna turn and fight and if you cant hold him right there he will leave the country.  I don't know if this is the same boar hog that cut Brent's bulldog last week are not but we struck this hog nearly in the same place and last week when Brent turned that bulldog loose this hog  heard him coming faced up and was ready with a pix ax in his mouth I guess Brent's little bulldog got hit head on and the hog put a bad bad bad whipping on him but Brent's dog is young and he learned a big lesson am sure mine did not get there in time to help him .  This hog here ran the same almost same route this hog ran last nite .  Anyway hell thats the fun I guess but boy I was disgusted yesterday .  I wanna see some of these super dogs hell you can come bring him are her and hunt with me I will sit back and watch the show and even film it so we can all learn how these super dogs do it !  It ain't YOUR DOGS BRO  it will make you wonder but I think around here the culling process on this place here has hit a peak in the last couple years .

Think about it these hogs are DOUBLE CULLED ONCE BY US AND THEN AGAIN BY MOTHER NATURE no wonder only the strong live and breed ,

If it ain't the dogs, then how is going back to catchy dogs gonna make a difference??  ;)

I've got one beautiful place to hunt that has Very few hogs on it, I've cuaght about all the easily catchable ones already and I firmly believe there's only 3 hogs left, 2 boars and a big sow. This is judging by me having seen them, studying their tracks and camera footage. These last three are serious hardcore runners and smart old hogs. So far all the hogs I've cuaght out there, EVERY ONE of them have ran at least a bit.
The trick as I've seen it on these, has been speed.
Every hog over 100 pounds that I've cuaght out there has been bayed by "loose dogs" BUT you could hear them sucking wind and panting like dogs before you even got to the bay. One big sow with cutters I posted on here a while back actually was so winded, that its stomach and chest were shaking with every breath and she sounded like she was about to stroke out before I decided to stick her.


I believe the key to stopping runners lies in the legs, heart and brain rather than the jaws.

I know I don't need to tell you any of this (texashogdogs) but for the young folks who decide they wanna " breed their own "line"" of gritty hog mualers,  ;) they need to remember, IF THE DOG CAN'T CATCH UP TO THE HOG, IT AIN'T GONNA CATCH THE HOG.

Very true T-bob. If u can't push one hard enough to make it decide fleeing isn't working its not gonna turn and fight. A man can look at it like this. All beings have a fight or flight response. When faced with an adversary that could possibly kill u flight should be the first response. Fight would be reserved for no other choice. In the case of catching one on its bed the initial fight is solely to allow for the second option. My figuring in the one out scenario is one dog isn't enough of a threat so the stand and fight. In my case I have one catchy dog and 2 gritty dogs. On bigger pigs my catchy dog isn't always enough and my gritty dogs aren't enough help that ends in bump after bump until they get on the same page and pig gets tired.

T bob, if you were askin me what I was sayin was that if I dont use catchy dogs that sill flat catch the hog where he finds it I wont get that hog unless it 20 miles later. When these hogs roll out my dogs and no dogs Ive seen yet will be able to catch up to that hog unless its many many miles later . These hogs are not like yours Im guessing, Now T bob, I say this with the utmost respect for you and your experience with hogs and dogs. You and I spoke of this before and you seemed skeptical that these hogs will get out a mile past the dogs, but it is a fact ! Now I aint no youngun like you mentioned but I hunt these hogs every week year roundn and know what Im sayin, I have not seen a dog yet that can consistently stop hogs here, if thT dog is in the world somewhere I want someone to show it to me and teach me about it. This is not me saying your wrong, this is me sayin please prove it to me so I can get on the right track ! These hogs will flat leave yur dogs ! They can chew o. his ass , tear his nutts off and he will flat blow out and not stop for miles ! These hogs will not bay up ! Its caught or gone ! Now if ya wanna come teach me I will pay for all expenses and take good care of ya while yur here ! Scott

I sure nuff agree with the speed thing and the legs and the wind in a dog for sure for sure . I think about it all the time n every breeding I make  but what am saying is if you cannot get on top of these hogs here and I mean quick get a holt and hang on all that speed , wind , and legs is gonna do you no good.  These hogs will stand and fight and I do mean fight and then take off with here nuts dragging the ground and dogs chasing them to no ends .  So what am saying is when one of these dogs first strike the hog he man stand there for a min and if you aint got dogs that get on him then and there he is gonna bring the fight to you whip your ass if you aint got the dogs to handle him and that means catch he will leave nuts are not nuts and then never stop agian but to get his wind and whip the dogs ass again if they cannot  handle him take off and this is just a merry go round thing untill the dogs give out are the hog gives up .  I agree speed is the deal , wind is the deal , legs is the deal but tell me why having you caught them old hogs ?  Am sure you got great dogs and I say that with respect .  Its the same way here but we got a ton of them like the old ones you are talking about .  Here it comes down on these bad hogs is deliver the knock out blow right then and there are run them for 6 to 12 hours .  My Horn dog was so give out last night he could not even hold himself up in the backend .  Rickys two dogs were cut to hell and back and both exhausted and my old gyp look like she was death warmed over from all the running .  I did not have my reg crew there Three of my good gyps  are out due to being in heat are havin pups and I didnt take the Partin Fla cur due to I have got to get a good vest ordered for him or it might have been a little different out come atleast we might have got one .  Its the knockout blow withend the first few mins of the strike and bay that counts around here if not Ali is gonna put the rope a dope on your ass and take you out in the long run.  I may be wrong .  Fight are Flight is right these are gonna fight the first two three mins then they are going to take flight and thats were the problem lies !  Just me man . All the best to everyone . 

Gonna breed some into my rough curs and see how it works out...I have a pup that's 1/2 Rathke 1/2 clue stock wish he was a little older and had two more like him....I really like him..

I agree 100percent ! Catch it at the jump or its all over with. You just described every place in Ohio.
Very frustrating to say the least, the worst part about this for me is that there are no easier hogs around, big or small they run like deer.Ive had em blowout from 150 - 200 yds on the run just because they smelled me.
Like tryin to sneek up within reach of a bedded deer.I am looking for the straight catch type dog I started with.

I with you on the stock dogs.    Stock dogs should have the stamina and speed to work all day & be smart enough to hold the hogs with the rite amount of pressure.  I have raised two litters that have a lot if the old stock dog in them with 1/4 hound to increase stamina.  The first pups are nine months now & showing the traits I was looking for.  If the second litter that are now 3 months will possess these same abilities I may be on to something.  It may or maynot work.  If it doesn't I will have wasted 2plus years and a lot of money, but I will know I tried to get what I believe may work.  If it doesn't work I don't no what to try next.   I have no desire to run straight catch dogs.   If I cannot walk to a bay and get to watch the dogs work, only catch hogs.   I will probably hang my hat and quit hunting hogs.   Yesterday I got to watch my dogs stop a 100 lb sow in an open field.  They bayed her, they were circling her baying like stock dogs should do in my opinion.  Every time she tried to break a dog would grab her a$$ and make her spin.  It was a cool sight.   But the next two were a different story in the briar thickets.   The hogs can bust out the backside of the briars and the dogs loose a lot of ground on them, and the race was on.  Then it's around 1 mi before they get caught up and able to stop them again.   It is very frustrating.

you can have some good to great dogs and catch the pork in open woods and make it look easy...and this time of the year the woods open up and with the cooler weather the dogs do even better...but you take the same pack of dogs to those woods that are thick with all kinds of briars and vegetation and you might catch one every now and then...when the dogs start trailing they will fall behind and the hog gains ground and then he will stop and listen and rest...then when he hears the dogs getting close he will run again...and this hog is always looking for the thickest cover to run in...hog hunting is a tough and challenging sport...A few folks are lucky to have the good spots to run hogs in...but not many...

I believe this is right...stock dog sense with hunting dog sense...the dog needs to have that genetic inclination to do all it can to stop a runner and turn it back to the herd...and then back up and bay because it wants the hogs to stay put (GENETICS)...but the stock dog needs more than what I just mentioned...it needs the bottom, nose, and hunt of a good hunting dog...the problem with some of the hunting dogs is that they want to fight and try to kill the game which will then push the hog when the briars are thick...just can't get enough dogs there to catch the hog...and a good stock dog pack of 4 or 5 dogs should still be content holding the hogs in one spot... but will hammer down as needed...the perfect combination of stock dog and hunting dog traits is probably the best option...

My perfect dog is the same as yall speak of were I can go to the bay and watch the show .  It just dont seem to work that way no more .  I dont really know what the anwser is to all of this .  I love fast, quick, loads of lungs , big bottom in all ranges Hell I love a real hog dog no matter what he is .  All I know is things have changed and some ajustment and adjusting have to be made.  We are all looking for the same thing lets just hope we can all find a happy medium if not a anwser.  LOL

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I believe the key to stopping runners lies in the legs, heart and brain rather than the jaws.

I know I don't need to tell you any of this (texashogdogs) but for the young folks who decide they wanna " breed their own "line"" of gritty hog mualers,  ;) they need to remember, IF THE DOG CAN'T CATCH UP TO THE HOG, IT AIN'T GONNA CATCH THE HOG.


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That is the truth , the last 2 weekends my dog has got on big hogs in thick briars I mean miles of thickets an swampy stuff that I think is why the hogs will run they know they can slow dog down by staying in the thick stuff an they take a break while dog is coming to them then they run a little bit more its hard for a dog to move fast is alot of briars

Now if you had a fast straight catch dog that could work as long as he didnt get drug off in the briars

The problem with running catch dogs is that they don't bay...just catch which is great...but a mile deep in the briars and palmettos and you have cut up dogs and dogs dying from heat exhaustion...the garmin helps but it won't get you there quick enough...

Reat, I was in GA a few weeks ago and had bout 6 dogs on a hog , they were in real thick brush on top of a hill, 2 of us busted buf up there but they went silent. A minute later fight breaks out at bottom of same hill so we run back down, their caught in a deep ditch ! one man jumps in, kills hog and we start tyin off dogs, I realize my joe dog is not here so I step out to listen and hear him bayin way way off. Run as hRd as I can 1000 yds or so and Joe has a big boar stopped on the edge of a swamp, he's circleing the hog and has had him there for 5-10 min. My buddy Nik had been there the whole time watching, he didnt have a gun or bulldog so he just watched. Fortunately one of the bulldogs followed me and as soon as I got there the 2 dogs caught the hog. Nik said every time the hog tried to run my birddog was biting him and keepin him there.It would not have gone down that way here at home, that hog woulda been 2 miles out and still pickin up speed !

Not trying to be a nay sayer but I have seen both sides...and believe me...I have been frustrated over this one...it has a lot to do with terrain...

Rueben, everything I hunt is super thick, maybe I should try something more open ?

When the hog are hogs finally got to were they were going last nite a long long long ways away when me and my daughter got there.  I had never been on that place and let me tell you what you could not stick a straight pin are a needle threw it .  That has to be the tuffest place I have ever seen around here bar none never been there before.  Horn was treed at about 950 yds and there is just no way in hell we could have got threw it and to him the hog are hogs would have heard us coming and been gone again .  The big mystery how to stoppem before they get to this place.   Who's gonna solve it ?

rueben just mentioned terrain, where I hunt its all timbered hills that are normally open, with very thick clearcuts all over that are extremely thick ! crawl thru thick, because I hunt daytime I am usually around these clearcuts. I have never caught a hog in anything open here. Maybe if my dogs would hunt at night I could find some hogs in open timber but if they dont catch it right there it would surely make it into the thick stuff !

I bred and hunted some great dogs in my eyes...but the biggest obstacle bar none was consistently catching hogs...there was no doubt that my dogs were going to find a hog or stick with a track...but catching hogs had a lot to do with terrain...and educated hogs...this time of year is best for catching hogs in open country when the weeds are dead and down...

I tell ya the perfect deal for me is this .  Running my main strike dog that will find the hog and bay not so gritty but will locate the hog and all the other dogs that are on the ground are some really really some bad mofo's when they get there it is on and then when we hear it and we turn loose the catch dogs if not a little before the bad mofo's get there, results caught hog .  Then my main strike dog will roll off and get after some more hogs while we all take care of the downed hog .  But I also like the really really ruff mofo's to be strike kind of dogs also out hunting and not waiting on the main find dog staying busy  .   I do not like running all bulldogs.  I want my cur dogs to have this in them ruff bad mofo's maybe with a touch of bulldog in them fast quick agile lungs from hell and tuff as boot leather .

This is my perfect world of hog dogs here.

There is two ways to catch bad hogs, and we the hog hunters have created them as it is, with "packs of dogs" and "rough" dogs. Hogs are survivors, and a bunch of dogs or rough dogs force them to run in order to survive , so just use one or two dogs that will back up so the old bad hog thinks he can win or turn some lose that will catch and hold him where they find him, if they ever get to him in the first place.
If you have one truly good find dog that won't be constantly challenging a hog you will keep more bad running hogs bayed as long as they aren't just shoats. Someone earlier in this very post was telling about one of their dogs got way off to himself and had one of those runers bayed by himself for quite a while, that hog figured he could win against one dog. Just think about what you see and hear and then unless you just want them immediately caught where they are found quit turning a swarm of rough dogs loose in an attempt to "stop" hogs.

you are absolutely right...but I like running a pack of dogs...

but I also believe in evolution...the flop eared big ham hogs that stopped to fight got caught and the russian type that run at the drop of the hat have got away to breed another day...the better the dogs the faster the evolution...

skin and gut a hanging hog and take a look at the anatomy...you will see power, agility, and speed...and that skinned out hog has plenty of leg under him...

Yes sir Reuben , and not to mention when you use one dog if you can get him stopped and bayed and send the catch dog as soon as these new generation bad boars see a catch dog coming its either turn and run like the wind are he will face and meet the dog head on head up and  go underneath the dog head on and cut him on his way leaving outta there.

I understand what the old man is saying I sure do and I use to do it and know many that have done it but the hogs have changed atleast around here they have its not like it use to be at all . 

Try them rough ones first. You will catch all the easy ones and sometimes a runner that has a brain fart.

The rest requires running them until they have no air left in their lungs ....and then sticking the fire out of them to keep from having to repeat it again with that particular hog. Sometime even reinforcing the race by throwing out fresher dogs on into the race to keep the pressure on and cancel any plans the hog has made to catch any breaks. And dogs that will CLOSE instead of quit...........Probably half the reason the hog has learned to run in the first place is due to experiences with low bottomed dogs that wont put it on em.
Same as alot of the above posts.  They can't bay...or catch something that is already ahead of them without any intention of looking back.....unless their standing there when he does!

Jmo ;D

I heard that!! I've had to train my catch dog to do more then just run in and catch. Had him chase one with the bay dogs for a mile an I guess he turned to fight for just a second and my cd was right in his face when he turned. But that was at night, in the same place during the day the big ones never stopped to fight at all, I didn't get a chance to cut the cd loose at all. The hog went to another deer lease where dogs are not welcome so we had to call em off. Rough dogs are the way to go now! I back that up no doubt!

In my area we have so many hogs a hog can usually run 1mi in any direction and be in another group of hogs and break the dogs off onto another hog.  This makes it very difficult.  Bottom will eventually catch hogs but it doesn't stop the initial hog very often.

IMO. Just one or two dogs on the ground. I haven't had any crazy long races this year going that route. I use a Stag for catch and he hasn't missed a hog yet that was bayed. I'm sure they have tried to run when he was coming in but good luck with that..

Rough dogs will help some. But not eliminate the problem. Depending on the hogs and terrain? It's not uncommon for us to run one for 10 plus miles with nothing but wore out dogs when I get to them or cut off. My dogs can be really rough sometimes and my old dog even Suicidal. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it hurts. I think that some hogs don't like the pressure and run like Hell. We hunt really thick cover which makes it hell on a dog.