EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Let me start by saying thank you to each of you, I've been pretty lonesome on this particular Trip out of town and all the good debates have kept me from going stircrazy!!
Also, opinions vary, so let's not get bent out of shape over this thread, as I've said before, my grand daddy told me "if everybody liked the same thing as me your grandma wouldn't never get nothing done"


So. Several recent posts have all sort of eventually meshed together in my head and made me realize that most of the arguments between different folks here lately have all boiled down to standards and wether or not you'll compromise your standards.

Im no dog man, and I'm really not even all that bright, but there's a few things I see as basics when it comes to hunting dogs an I'd like to deal with ONE AND ONLY ONE OF THEM.




Striking.


To me, and it's possible I'm wrong ( but I'm not  ;)) ANY dog that is said to be a hog dog finds it's own hog. I'm not talking up and coming pups, I'm talking grown dogs. They should be able to find a hog on their own. To me this is the basic of basics and y'all all know it is or you wouldn't be doing "mock hunts" with your pups

I see and hear and read of a ton of folks who are breeding their only strike dog to one of their "help" dogs. I also see alot of folks on the dog trade saying "I need a female ____ cur or____ hound or ____terrier" and the best I can figure is they have a dog who may or may not be a strike dog and they assume that bingo bango presto chango they can add some "breed" to it and they'll have "jam up" dogs?? I believe this BECUASE when I first started that's what I thought too.


I say all that to ask y'all, why on earth would you breed ANY dog that can't AT LEAST find it's own hog in hopes of making a litter of dogs that can?

 Or

Is it that you WANT a whole litter of help dogs? And if so, why do you want them?

Let me ask another question to spur some discussion since y'all are being awful quiet and I've still got a few hours before I get home.

If you had a hound who had never found and treed a coon, would you call it a coon dog?

If you had a heeler who wouldn't go pester a cow, would you tell people he was a cow dog?

If you had a lab who wouldnt go into cold water and fetch a
Duck, would you brag on your bird dog?

If you say, well obviously, no. Then why would you call a dog whos got no desire or ability to do the basic function that everyone wants, a hog dog? And why would you breed it?

I personally wouldn't breed any dog that I did not see as top notch. In my opinion all dogs should be able to find their own hog. In most cases when the situation pushes u to not be able to run ur best dog another will step up. I have seen what was bought as help dog turn into a strike dog. To me some dogs are just better and tend to start more often than others. I can say each one of my 4 dogs will start a hog. I know this because I tend to watch my garmin a lot when trying to get on a hog in order to see who starts it and in what order they line out.

I have seen instances where it took a while for the next dog to step up as primary and some slow hunts were the norm for a while.

I came from the deer dog world and u had ur main strike dog and a lead dog. It takes both if one didn't hold both spots. The others would strike also but it wasn't a race till that lead dog opens up.

i agree and my dogs suck totally and completely.only got a pup and a peaner that has some potential. I've bought alot of dogs and tried breeding a good dog to existing dog..... sucked also. sucky genetics is the stronger everytime i've tried.I'm buying genetics for now on and only breeding the best to the best out there that i know of that also has verifiable genetics. It's a waste of time and money to buy pups out of a buddys crossed up dogs without knowing the line and how they work. I could have payed eight grand for a strike dog and been way ahead.Only dogs i've owned that was really good was jagds and they were good because of their foundation breeding and natural abillity testing. my new lead dog hopeful is a bmc from donald breckenridge and he's 10 months old and only got in on three bays and opened bay with lead dog on two. hes only been hunting 6 times or so total and went and found hogs by himself thursday while the older dogs stayed underfoot and sucked and tempted me to cull them right there! he's always caught with the other dogs as well. I personally don't care if it takes me a couple years to save the money I'm not buying or breeding a deck stacked the wrong way again! even if the pups are free because i crossed mine and a buddys dog or if I buy one for fifty bucks because by the time i raise them and put all that time into them trying to change bad behavior brought on by genetic tendency I could have for the same money bought a dog that would have done all those things naturally from the start for less money and been catching hogs instead of training dogs not to do whats bred into them and having high blood pressure brought on by a butt sniffing mutt.If average dogs throw a  real good dog it's a freak but when they come along from years of purposeful genetic mixing it's expected. makes since to me . So i guess my point is, im not crossing two dogs again just because i need a cheap dog. I'de rather start with deaf dumb and blind foundation bred dog as breeding stock than two freaks with nothing behind them.  I hate driving long distances to hunt just to lead them to the hogs.jmo

without going into to a long explanation, what is your thoughts about breeding a strikedog (male) to a known producer of strikedogs (female)?

X2 with the female being from proven lines but an unproven individual

This is where it comes into play that I said I'm not very bright and didn't claim to be a dogman, BUT, since BRK said she's a known producer of strikedogs, then she is proven. A proven producer.

As for me, I would personally be very reluctant to breed an unproven gyp even among the lines I like simply becuase i feel performance is the goal. But what do I know, I can think of one fella we all envy who I've heard does exactly that with his crossbred bitches and his dogs are among the most elite in the sport fr what I've seen heard and read. He's obviously doing something very right and I'm obviously not yet.

Here is another conundrum.... Finds their own hogs....? That phrase in itself needs to be defined here. Are you walking, driving or dropping your dogs within 100 or even 200 yards of said hogs? To me that is not a dog finding their own hogs. That's a dog being fed hogs and darn near any dog that will bay a hog can do this.

I got in this debate in another thread but I guess I see things different than a lot of hunters out there....

So to answer your question I will not breed a dog that cannot TRULY find THEIR own hogs...

Lots of people breed good blooded gyps that have mever been hunted and get good results

Talking about standerds, I expect even my pits to take a Hot track and find a hog. Anything less will get them culled. My Standerds for my Hounds and curs are even higher.

Gotten rid of 3 Within past 2 months that weren't up to par.

To me, breeding a dog that cannot find or strike it's own hog is like going backwards. You might luck up but for sure the chances of getting top dogs is nil. It is hard enough getting top dogs from top dog breeding. There are so many variables to make a top dog & if you have the right gentics, you need the exposure & hunting that is required to make a top dog. Good dogs dont get made on a chain or in a pen.
  Other then people running rcd's with there strike dogs I just dont know many peoplle who would hunt with help dogs other then young & upkeeping youngsters. I must be wrong because the dog trade if full of them but how often do you see top strike dogs for sale. If people would cull them, instead of breeding them you might see a difference.
  On anotherf note if T Bob does not mind why is it so hard for that super dog to reproduce itself. One of the most famous crosses in Plott history was the Butch x Jill cross(weems breeding) According to the man that trained Jill she was just a avernot age dog but when bred to Butch, she reproduced well above the average to great dogs. Both parents were linebred & related.
  I think the biggest problem is kennel blindness & the I would rather breed one of my dogs then go down the road & breed to old so & so top dog. I just cannot understand this concept.



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always breed genetics to genetics not dog to dog. just my last two cents on the subject.

No need to define that term....it's basic and there is nothing really there to debate.

Walk hunting, roading, hood hunting, casting....it doesn't matter "finds their own hogs" means the same in every instance.

I think your more referring to the range of a dog and that reflects on hunting style.

Disagree.... Say joe blow takes his dogs to the woods. He walks said dogs around a couple hours til they stumble on or jump a pig... Now, did the dog find the pig?? Heck no. Human took the dog to the pig.

Yes range is in play here but I have personally hunted with a few people that think said scenario was in fact a dog finding a hog. To me thats no different than walking your dog to a pen with a hog in it.

Just my opinion but I wouldn't breed a dog that's chillin at my feet all day until a pig runs out in front of him/her whether you want to call that "finds their own hog" or not.

I think it's a fun topic, so by all means, take it however far you want fellas.

But as far as chads "conundrum", I didn't get into specific prejudices, I only wanted the basic of
Basics to be established and hopefully understood and agreed upon by all who read this. You can breed to your own prejudices but there needs to be a base point.

  so chad what you are saying is YOU have no use for a short to medium range dog that checks back in periodicley  when in no sign  . and actually hunts with it's owner instead of blowing out and hunting for it's self .  I walk hunt my dogs and we will  [ stumble ] up on a hog every now and then . but this is what I prefer and demand in a dog , I will cull a get gone out of the country dog . I spend my time hog hunting not dog hunting  .  different strokes for different folks but I have of yet had to point to a hog and say there he boys go get him  lol   well there was that one time but that's another discussion   lol   hell what was the original topic  i'm getting olg and forgetfull i'll have to go to the top and re-read it  .

Let me clarify again. I have seen way too many times a man telling me his dog is sure enough a hog dog but yet this dog literally stays 20 feet from you until another dog barks or you stumble on a pig. Said hog is 50 or even 100 yards in the brush and even I can here the hog and the dog goes to it. Call that a dog finding a hog if you want to.

Halfbreed, I don't like a dog to leave the country either but I will just sit and wait and let them work in every direction before I go on down the road and drop again and repeat the process. Sure they come check in but not every 3 minutes after a 50 yard dash. I don't have the luxury of driving the places I have to hunt and I darn sure aint walking them for no reason so I count on the dogs covering the country.

So yes different strokes for different folks.. LOL

Let me say this too, I am far from an experienced dog man. Hell I'm still green. So I am not trying to come across as something I'm not. But I think I have the bar set higher than a lot of folks I have hunted with...

My guess is u run long range dogs. I do not. I road mine. I expect them to wind and if we cross a track I expect them to go with it. If I stop they should hunt the area out to around 300 yards. I know in some places a man can see that far but if it is pine thickets u can't. On farms I hunt this range will cover 90% of the fields.

  ok I see what you are saying now for a minute I thought you were talking about walk hunting and short range dogs . even a short range dog better cover some brush while I stand still and wait .  

I totally agree if you have to walk a dog threw the woods to find a hog in my opinion that's a cull I've had them and I'm guilty of this but not anymore I leave the hunting for the dogs .

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I wouldn't call it long range. I hunt a lot by boat. I drop a dog or two and I want them to cover at least a 800 to 1000 yard radius before we load up and head on down the waterway. Does this always happen? No, but that is ideal for me because I'm lazy and aint walking unless their bayed... lol

Kevin, i know since i obide by the law the majority of the time, i hunt corp land on foot, that would be walk hunting for some. Only other other choices are on horse back or taking a chance n using a wheeler in a no access area. I used to walk hunt n wanted my dogs close to me, which im paying the price now bc a lota places iv hunted lately, its by wheeler. My old style is a kick in the junk on my new style.
If everytime the walk hunter goes out and both hunter n dogs find the hogs at the same time, then yes, bad for the dog/s, but if the dogs are out 50-200yds corcling and they find a hog or its track n run it n at the end, wam, hog/s. be it 50yds or 1000yds if the hunter dont hav to walk up the hogs n throw the dogs into the pack, then the dogs are finding their own hogs. Diff strokes for diff folks.

Winding from a boat aint no diff than road windin, except the vehicle n type of road used. U cant giv an example of 1 style of hunting, that that person deems best style for his application and try n compare to a completely diff style n then say the other style of huntin dogs are culls. Only in ur eyes for ur paticular style of hunting, would the dog be a cull. Dadgum, its compairing orages to grapefruits, similar in family, but completely diff fruits.

I think we hunt allot a like Chad!  We actually need to do it again! 

Oh, and we WALKED to the bay when you hunted with me!  ;)  3 bays if i rememeber right!  ;)

I wasn't saying winding from the boat. Heck the majority of the time we have a south wind and that puts it at our back but I still want them to go hunt no matter which way the winds blowing. Now granted a north wind always makes it easier on them..

Actually it was 4 bays we had to walk to..counting the one from the morning before... But whos counting ;D

I will say it like this...

a king is looking for a young maiden to have sons that will be mighty warriors and leaders, and the daughters to be intelligent, elegant, and beautiful...

He looks at all the leaders that are mighty warriors and he see's only one young lady that is available from all these men...and...she is not beautiful and not so elegent...but...she has brothers, uncles and grandparents that are mighty men, and the women from this line are mostly beautiful, elegant and intelligent...

The king decides to look at the poor working class and he finds a beautiful young lady that is available and he investigates her back ground and the father is unknown and the mothers side of the family has at least 50 percent of the family to be drunks and most failed out of school as children...and...the rest work for the king as janitors or field hands...

so which one of the maidens will the king pick to have children with???

I will say it like this...

a king is looking for a young maiden to have sons that will be mighty warriors and leaders, and the daughters to be intelligent, elegant, and beautiful...

He looks at all the leaders that are mighty warriors and he see's only one young lady that is available from all these men...and...she is not beautiful and not so elegent...but...she has brothers, uncles and grandparents that are mighty men, and the women from this line are mostly beautiful, elegant and intelligent...

The king decides to look at the poor working class and he finds a beautiful young lady that is available and he investigates her back ground and the father is unknown and the mothers side of the family has at least 50 percent of the family to be drunks and most failed out of school as children...and...the rest work for the king as janitors or field hands...

so which one of the maidens will the king pick to have children with???
[/quote] totally agree!

this is my thoughts about it...blood, it's what makes your chances better...

as far as range on a dog not everyone has large tracts to hunt and not everyone has small tracts. you have the dogs you do because of the places you have or at least should. now if you're hunting BIG country with short range dogs then maybe you need to look at improvements, whatever you decide to do. NO one can tell another their dogs don't work because they're close or far, you're not hunting their style obviously.

I agree with most of what you are saying...

this is what I have seen...well bred dogs don't need to hunt every day but the more the better like anything else...sorry dogs can be hunted every day and they are still gonna be sorry dogs...

short story...

a friend of mine brought a 6 month old pup along on a hunt and we caught a big boar in a slough and the pup was with the pack...then while we were dealing with the boar we heard a baying in the cattails and slough about 150 yards away...it was that pup on a coon...one of the guys hunting with us thought that was one sorry a$$ trashy pup...me...I was excited because I saw the potential in that pup...when I look at a pup or young dog I look at the potential and I evaluate the handler and how much the pup has been in the woods...when I look at a grown dog I want so see a good hogdog but I look more towards breeding potential...

after 5 generations on the dam side and 3 generations on the sires side...talking about best to the best of linebred and inbred dogs I gave a 10 week old pup to one of my brothers for a blood trailing dog...I gave him a pup that had a good winding and trailing nose...two years later he wants to get rid of him because he never did anything with him...I took him and put him in the bay pen and took to baying like a pro pen dog...took him to the woods and he was hunting as good as the other dogs...second time out he took a hog by himself for a couple miles and swam the brazos...Someone caught thdog on the other side and called me to go get him...but he was a hunting dog...when breeding it is best to look for nature ability and inclination...if you have to hunt a dog 2 or 3 times a week to make a hunting dog out of it then we can expect the same from the pups...

If we feel the need to breed in a little hound to the curs do it at the beginning and no more...if you feel the need for new blood find a dog that is similar to your dogs and breed that dog once to your best...if it clicks then use the offspring of that cross to bring in the new blood which is only 25%...any more and it won't be your line because it will have more of that other line...

if that outcross does not produce then get rid of all the pups and look elsewhere...

check all my post if you like...right or wrong I never waver from what I write...I always repeat myself because that is exactly how I done it and it works for me...

three things when breeding hunting dogs...

1...we have to know what a good dog is so we can set our goals and pick our dogs...that includes hunting style, conformation, intelligence, and range, finding and stopping hogs as well as bottom...

2...pick the breeders for natural ability for breeding and we must inbreed a little and linebreed a lot...bring in new blood with no more the 25% of it...

3...and just as important...pick the pups with natural ability to reproduce and carry on...

it takes a lot of money, time, and hard work to breed a good pack of dogs that hunt and have it in them to pass on geneticly what we want when needed...and I know the older folks can say the same thing...I did it once and won't do it again...but I will slowly move in that direction...

some breeders breed 3 generations in 20 years...

I turned 5 generations on the dam side in about 7 years to purify the gene pool then slowed it down...

HOG DOG-OLOGY...lots of chapters in that book...  :)

I think that's the best wat I have ever heard that put lmao

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Wooo weee I don't even know were to start .

I guess if I had to start over and was just starting out and let say I had a fine gyp that was bred well and also a damn great hog dog .  I would be looking to find the best hog hunting dog that I could to breed her to .  IN other words you breed athletes to athletes !  If you do not have a family of dogs then you need to breed the best to the best that you can find .  There is no since in worrying about blood at this point you just need to breed the best to the best that you can find .  Then you get your pups keep the best and do more best of the best breedings until you have yourself a few dogs from a few different crosses then you can start to combine your blood by breed half bro to half sister and so on .  This is how great lines get started !

Now ,  breeding to a dog that has not proven herself as a hog dog but has produced great hog dogs when bred to certain dogs and she her self is from a proven line and is great bred from a long line of great dogs.  There has been many many many breedings done like this and the bulldogs were a lot of them were I learned about this .

Some females it worked great for many many years and some females that were bred like this their offspring blew a gasket about half way threw them many many years and cull dogs started showing up more often than great dogs .  This is the chance you take .  You say what chance is that this bitch is a great producer of dogs and comes from great lines of dogs and producers of dogs ,  Well I say o did she now ,  well we are forgetting one main ingredient here , they say whats that ,  I say her ?  They go to scratching there heads what do you mean ,  I say what the hell do you mean what I mean !!!!!!!!!!!  What are you forgetting here ?  LOL You are forgetting this great bred bitch has never best tested she has never proven a damn thing in the woods are what ever her job is and now 15 years later she is dead and this great line is now starting to produce more junk than good dogs well what could that be ?  Could it be that bitch that was never tested was a cull !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Highly likely !  There is your problem and you just completely fell on your face not thinking about it !  

I would never ever breed to a bitch that I didn't know what she was .  I want to know what is in her gas tank man I want to know she is a good hog dog ,  I don't give a flying chit how she is bred she can be out of GR CH NITE CH GR CH God of all hog dogs ,  I do not care that is great but WHAT IS SHE HERSELF !   You damn well better know if you are basing your whole family line of dogs on her and her offspring if not 10 15 year from now you may find yourself scrapping your whole yard !

Now ,  folks I have seen this with my own eyes this is no hear say this is facts !

Blood is great , family's of dogs is great , line breeding and in breeding is great but Am here to tell you never take a damn thing for granite ,  see it with your on eyes and know what you are looking at !

Am not basing my whole yard on a bitch that has not hit a lick !

And I sho as hell aint breeding to a male that aint hit a lick but great great bred.  He can have a golden goober and silver nads all I can say is melt them down and sell  !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You want good dogs you breed good dogs .  Dont let all this bloodline chit fool you and all these big names  ,  you breed the good and great dogs to the good and great dogs first and then later on you can look at putting together their bloodlines and be confendent you are in the right direction !

Sorry but .

I got a question for yall ,  sorry T Bob hope you dont mind.

Tell me what is the difference in breeding a great bred untested gyp vs breeding a great bred untested male ?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I hear this chit all the time Aw I aint worried about the gyp ,  Really now ?

Why not ?  She throws half the gene pool just like the male !

Whats the difference ,  come on folks there is no difference if you breed a untested gyp you might as well breed a untested male !

Just a bunch of BS man !

    I am confused. Didnt you just breed that dog from fla to a few females of yours. And didnt you even say something about taking a chance  on him even though you havent hunted him enough,but he has the bloodline(name) to back it up?

I stated without going into details but....I own the gyp I own her son I own her grandson and have tracked the breeding of this gyp...she has never hit the woods but is consistent in her offspring and their abilities. her son is a strikedog her grandson is a strikedog...several other dogs out of her that others own are strikedogs, she has a very low cull rate, this line is of old blood from LA. this isn't a random dog from let's say Florida I just got to breed to something in hopes of turning out dogs. homework, research, and knowing....

Yes sir but I seen enuff out of that dog in a short three month period of time to know he is a hell of a dog bar none and there is plenty here that can tell you the same that has hunted with him since .  I seen dogs with three years exeprince not do and catch on as fast as he did .  There was  no training involved he took out with the main lead dogs the very first time and every time after that was at every bay and has stopped every hog that he has been on since day one if he was there it was stopped and caught including several boars around 250 lbs with no baby tusks ,  Not only did he stop them he caught them and all the running has stopped !   I got his bloodline verfied and talked to several people that knew them dogs including to Mr Partin and ask what those dogs were how they were and trying to find out everything I could about his line of dogs and this dog fit the mild to a T .  Also he backs his bloodline up most people want the bloodline to back the dog up LOL there is a differecne and when a dog like him can back up what his bloodline says he will do and not his bloodline have to back him up and make excuses for  ,  I will breed to this kind of dog every day .

There is plenty of great bred gyps that have been bred  that never were proven and produced great dogs for years on end never ending never showing many signs of culls and the bloodlines went on to history .  But on the flip side there has been many of unproven great bred gyps that many a men bred and the bloodline fell on its face years into the breeding program.  No one can say it will and no one can say it wont only time knows that.

I just dont do it myself because I know several ole bulldog men that done this and seen them go threw hell years later .

Also the first breeding was accedental with my Whitey gyp who is very hard to tell if she is in heat are not and on his first hunt with me they tied up in the woods yeah to say the least I like to have chit .   But as time went on and we all seen what kind of dog this dog was and a month are two went by and big hogs were falling prey to him and the running had all but stopped the dog was verfied and after a lot of research my other two gyps come in and yes sir the pipe was laid on purpose .

I never question a mans decision or efforts there to, if you want to breed to anything that's their (whoever) decision and they have to live with it. With that said I meant no more than to explain I know this gyp and I know the chance I'm taking breeding her but you breed the best you have at the time and if you've lost a proven dog, her granddaughter then you have to back-up and start over. I'm sure you know your stuff and I wasn't questioning your choice until mine was. I have noticed that folks are quick to jump on each other without knowing the whole story and I've noticed the stars seem to mean (in general) an experienced dogman...off subject..been hunting dogs from childhood and still learning.

My time with the dogs almost 30 yrs I bred are on the books and in history .  These cur dogs are just a hobby !  I myself dont need them stars . 

so you fight dogs  ??? ??? popo

Nope dont own a bulldog .

I wish I had a dog that could stop every hog I put him on!!!

x2...  :)

Texashogdogs...back when I had my dogs how I wanted...and... let's say all my females I kept died and all I had was a runt female pup left and let's say she was a cull...number 1 I would not hunt her because now she is the most valuable dog I have in my yard and I sure wouldn't go by me a bitch from another line of dogs because even though that runt won't be proven I know her background...nothing but the best for 4-6 generations...I did say I turned the females very quickly to purify my bloodline...but they were all excellent dogs in my eyes...I looked for and selected for natural ability as much as possible...I never waited for a dog to show me something at 2 or 3 years of age...and I never put a dog in the woods 5 days a week in the woods to see if that switch would trip...because doing all that to get a hog dog just means that that is what we are breeding for...didn't want it and won't ever breed that way...I always bred for natural early starters and the majority of the pups will be doing great at 10 months and some at 6 months months will be rolling out...

I don't live in the country but I have had 10 dogs in my back yard and I will never do that again...but everything I had was proven and that included 3 or 4 six month old pups that were well on there way to making what I wanted...

How'd u get that he fights dogs from that?

I was sent a few messages

Oh, ok. From the post u made about riding around in a boat, tossing a couple dogs out and wait till they get back bc ur lazy n dont like walking unless bayed, i assumed u were winding from a boat. I did that a good bit on the corp lake, idle along the shore or pole, depending on wind speed n draft of my boat n let the dogs work the bank till they pop smoke n go. Now, ur description of ur style of hunting of beach the boat, dump dogs out n sit in the boat or on a log on the bank is complete oppisite of the example of how a walk hunters dogs find pigs. In ur own words, u ride around in a boat n dont walk unless bayed (orange) but i used to beach the boat, dump dogs out, walk a couple miles and kept my dogs close (since i didnt hav a trackin system) and walk n watch them till they hit a track (grapefruit). Ur comparison example doesnt jive with ur method of hunting. Yes it hunting, but it aint same style of hunting.

And how was your line of questioning pertinent to this discussion? I'm not quite clear on how that if a man kept and bred gamedogs in the past has anything to do with this topic...

Thats ok Scott

Let me say this .

I was sent a few messages

You know it never fails !  

I was once told by a old time famous dog breeder that would now at this time and day proably be over a hundred years old.  He said Jim you ever want to find out who the real deal people are just start speaking the truth !

He says because it will weed threw a lot of BS real fast.  The first ones that are gonna squeal is the Pretenders they are the ones that are going to get their feelings hurt first and real real fast , they are gonna talk chit they are gonna act like there is no other way to breed dogs other than their own and the first thing you got to ask them is what have you done were are your dogs that have made great dogs .  Whos got them were they at .

The second ones you are going to have is your real deal people that are wanting to learn with open minds they will soak up every bit of info they can get and place it in the back of their heads never forgetting it as time goes on.  They are the ones willing to learn and try things and apply what they have been told threw years of listening and not speaking but working and handling dogs.  These people are the future of the dogs and who you have got to look for !

Then there is the older men dog breeders of years that have been there and done that .  They never get upset pissed off are blow things out of porportion because they already know excatly what you are talking about .  They dont slam they dont get mad they dont make comments that are uncalled for they keep it real and go on about there business.  For the most part they will help the willing with their knowledge but will dispise a smart ass know it all .

Back in the day we didnt have these big PC's in them times you never said something to a person that you would not say in person to him are her because if you did you were proably going to loose some teeth and more.

But you see this is the www were puter jockeys and keyboard hero's win the screen wars , breed dogs and are the best thing since sliced bread .  Never having to prove a thing.

Just for your infomation buddy .  I knew Marice Carver, Jerry Clemmons , Floyd Boudreax, Don Mayfeild, Leo Kindard, Gary Hammonds , Bobby Hall, JD Elliott, Mr Chrenshaw, Limey Kennels , Mr Lablanc , Mr Bulldog, knew them personally stayed with a lot of them and also Mr Greenwood and talked to Mr Stratton a time are two and a whole whole lot more  and they were all ledgends of their times each sealed in the history books .  The one regret I have is I didnt get to meet Mr Earl Tudor he did a month are two before I was going to vist him .   I myself have not owned a real bulldog in years and years .  

Thats some pretty good references as far as dog breeding goes ,

I said so far,  if I didnt say it I should have because we all know its just a matter of time before he gets his ass handed to him be hurt are killed,  its coming sure as rain !  I dont claim super dog I claim a dog that met my standards to breed on this yard and he done it n a short period of time .

Very impressive and very well, said.  Wish i could have met half of those guys! 

Boy there's some egoes on here, this all started from me adding to the discussion a simple question and after attacked for a breeding decision asked another simple question. I thought I was speaking to adults regarding dogs not name dropping to prove I'm important to someone somewhere. As for getting upset, not in the least. I only get upset when it's worth it, as you age you definitely learn people and positions they take. Simple questions require simple answers...it was a question to the forumn not a quote of what to do. As for the messages, like the mafia you learn alot about a situation from low spoken whisper that wasn't  spoken out loud for the whole room to hear. this is like junior high school when boys start getting hair and poke their chest out...wow go figure

you might be a little green but you are catching hogs with your dogs...nice...  :) if I were new this site would be my hog doggers bible...

I mainly like to talk breeding and dog handling...

to rap up what I said...I did say that I would rather breed to an unproven dog out of a long line of good to great dogs...rather than breeding to a star of unknown or of a lesser than average lineage...

but what I didn't say is this...just because I bred that way does not mean I will build a breeding program around that dog...breed it once and move it on...the next generation might be used for breeding but probably not...but for sure the following will be because it is all about cleaning the gene pool...got to put a little distance between the unproven dog before breeding extensively...but when you want the best we have to be hardnosed about how we breed...that's about all I have to say about that...

Then, since we are adults care to give a simple answer to the simple questions I asked you? To refresh your memory here they are again.

 in the mafia, folks got whacked for askn the wrong questions and buttin in. asking some1 if the fight dogs on an open forum with all the bunny humpers lookin aint smart and is like flagging down a cop and sayin, "hey my friend just robbed a gas station and he is still there" how bout send the person a pm askin that kinda question, especially since it is ILLEGAL to fight dogs and if it aint, it SHOULD BE

The mafia cleans up their own backyard, thanks for butting in
And yes I would tell a peace officer, isn't that what responsible adult would do regardless of association.

Did you are did you not ask this .

Quote from: BRK on April 07, 2013, 10:22:14 pm
without going into to a long explanation, what is your thoughts about breeding a strikedog (male) to a known producer of strikedogs (female)?

Then this was added .

X2 with the female being from proven lines but an unproven individual

You say you got attacked how in the hex did you get attacked .  What was said was my opinion on the deal with the experiences I had and other friends that have bred dogs for years on end .  You ask the question what was wrong with the answer I gave threw many years of experiences and other friends that had the same experting?  Like I said only time will tell you if its good are not .  It was not aimed as a attack on you but a mere opinion on the experiences I had and other Buddy's with this type of thing.

There was no attack just a simply attempt to tell you what has happened threw the years of breeding dogs .  Is it the right way are is it the wrong way only time will tell you .  I myself I want to see a dog perform are at least do something before I breed it and am sure there are many on here that feel the same.  Sure there are exceptions to  the rule like if it is the only dog left of the line are maybe only a few dogs left of the line why sure I believe most of us would take the chance .  But that was not the question at hand .  Anyway man you got all blowed up over noting but a answer to your question from the experiences done .  If you didn't like it hell all you had to do was ignore it are just say I think you are wrong thats all it would have took not go and try to make someone look like a ass that was answering your question from real life experiences . 

I don't care which way you go thats your deal and only time will answer your question what I said is what we have seen and experienced .

Why even ask if you are not ready to hear other sides of the story  ?

Good deal I'm done opinion taken and noted...I think the entire discussion got out of control...

Im not button no more than did, askn a man if he is doin illegal activities. If he is, its nun of ur business, as long as its not directly affecting u or impacting on ur way of life. Yes, resoncible adults will inform a po if illegal activities are goin on, but i would also mind my own damn business on an open forum too. only a snitch would go pryin into some1's hearsay activities. Its all hearsay untill the horse speaks, but make sure ur listening to correct end of the horse or all u'll hear is chit talkin.

This is the kinda crap here gets all out of hand over noting and a great topic to,  This is what makes myself at times not want to even try and help a sole any more ! Hell who listens these days anyways,  for that matter who even cares,   is about the way Am bout ready to look at it .   

Some bad apples spoil the bushel mr jimmy. There r those with open ears n minds n there r those with close minds n half open ears. Im quilty of bein closed minded at times, but iv learned a lot can b learned with an open mind n ears. It just takes some a lil longer than others to figure it out. Dont let the rain spoil ur picnic.

TexasHogDogs...keep on posting...you need to share your knowledge and more are learning than what you realize...

  suck it up buttercup  lol  .  I had an old teacher tell me that if he just reached one person in his life he would consider his career a success .  but geez some times you just want to beat it into their heads  lol .  he was a damn good teacher and I could not have done it without pulling my hair out .  seems the older you get the more thin runs a mans patience .  I now know how my grand-pappy must have felt when I would all-ways ask him  , but why granpaw   lol

LOL I hear ya halfbreed!  You had a wise teacher man .  It just makes me want to pull my damn hair out sometimes.  Ya I know people have different ways and that am not right about a lot of things hell no am not but damn man when you seen these things and most of all lived them and know what you saw and done and know tons of other people that done the things its just a kinda of a burning desire to help someone understand what you are talking about that wants to breed and have better dogs .  I will say one thing I did lie on one of the post up there when I said these hog dogs are a hobby now thats a lie they are not,  to me dogs are a way of life been a part of me since I was a young kid and my dad whipping my ass because I was bringing home all the strays ,  a burning desire and a thurst i cannot quench to get better and better and better thats just the way it has always been .  If I had the room I would have a 100 on my yard and it would be  hell to pay for someone to find one better sure they are out there better always is and thats what keeps us going and when ya get satisfide is when it is over .  Thats just the way it is when dog breeding is in your blood no matter what the breed hell i been doing it since I was 19.

x2...I have that burning desire to breed better hog dogs...I will do it half scale and not worry about turn over rate...just keep what I like and move slowly in the right direction...like you...I practically lived and breathed dogs as a kid...  8)

I hear ya Rueben ,  I didnt get to tell you but I was right with you when you said taken that chance when most of the line of proven dogs was gone and you would rather have a dog out of a great bred unproven bitch vs just a great dog with a BS bloodline .  My opinion you were right on with what you said but I got lost in all the other BS that was going on .

Y'all take pride in breeding high quality hog dogs. Well, I take pride in breeding high quality strippers!! Just saying!! Would you consider breeding an unproven stripper? I think I've had to much to drink. I'm going to bed.

 ???  :)

My kinda guy right here.  Lance I'm coming to get three or four of em and take em off your hands, I don't want you to get overloaded!

u have a lot of pep that listen and take in all you old timers info.I'm one and I been hog hunting a long time and those of us that do listen app. The knowledge and besides if anyone has been hog hunting long enough when he or she starts reading they know who is full of crap and who knows what there talkin about .thanks guys

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Big cutters.  so all that crap I talk about dogs if finally sinking in.lol  Even tho I have always had curs & plotts, I love it when I can convert a cur dog man to hounds. ;D  That being said, I have had & seen some cur dogs I would love to own.

Lmfao

Cajun you had a pretty good cur dog named Dawg back in the day.

Cajun sometimes I may ask to many questions about all the dog breeding BC I don't know where to start Lol .all the info and help u give me is greatly appreciated.thank you

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I'm about 100% pos he did

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Only reason I could think is if you are into bay pen dogs. Then the striking isn't needed so your just breeding suicidal help dogs.

I didn't think bay pen dogs were suicidal. Either way pretty much bay busters or culls.

You can do just as good and most of the time better with a well bred Cur dog  ;)

Tbob...throughout out the years I have hunted with a few folks that thought they had a good strike dog when in fact it was a good help dog...

so to keep from writing 3 pages on what a good hog dog is I just cut to the chase and just say it like this...take the hog dog hunting by himself and if he can find, trail and bring a hog to bay then you have a hog dog worthy of his feed...that is about as simple as I can say it...but as you know there are lots of different styles of hog dogs but I am talking about dogs that are casted out or roaded...

x2  Good post.

Jimmy if that dog is as good as you say I hope he can smell one of these five female I got when they come in!
Cameron to Belton ain't that far!

And while I got you read my lacy post !