EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

How old do y'all start y'all's pups? I started my first ones at six months but can you start them
Earlier and if you do does it give them a head start or make them better dogs?

bay on a caged hog for a month. then put them in a pen with the hog.

   hog hide drags when they are old enough to move around good . start slow and short drags at around 2.5 to 3 months old  . between 3 and six months a good long drag with a shoat in a cage . by the time they are 8 to 9 months old they already know the ropes and are well on their way to becoming hog dogs . when they are agile enough to be able to get away from a hog when needed a few trips to the bay pen .

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When youngest was a pup, say about 5-6 months we put her in a pen and she hid from the hog so I just started running her in the woods with the other dogs. Now she gets out and hunts (hasn't found any yet) and flies to the bay and helps catch. She's about 1 now.

All that advice is good stuff and I don't reckon it can hurt anything really, but the way I choose to do it is to just let puppies be puppies till they get enough physical and mental maturity to handle what I'm fixing to ask of them, then Ive been leaving them put up in the truck or ATV/utv until a bay, once the big dogs have one bayed, you feed the pups into it and let them be part of the excitement. Mostly at first they'll bay then wanna dick around after that, if they just screw around, dont get mad, just put them back up, eventually after a bay you'll see a difference in their demeanor and they will appear fully confident and hopefully (for my prejudice anyway) they'll roll out once the hogs cuaght and go to hunting for tracks to run. This is when I personally know a pup has become a dog and is ready to get the freedom of hunting from the outset.

It ain't the only way, but it's my favorite way.

Nicely put T-Bob

Thanks.

I would also like to ask, NOT in a smartass way, but from an attitude of confusion And maybe a little naivety, what would one hope to accomplish by letting pups bark at a hog in a roll cage?

I seen coon hunters do it forever, and I'm seein more and more folks doing that on Facebook, and like I said, I'm not being a smart ass, but I don't see why if your gonna let a dog bark at a hog in a pen, why wouldn't you want them to get a peice?

My thoughts on that....more control. I don't use a cage...just a bay pen....but with very small shoats. I make it impossible for the pup to get wrecked the first few times I put them on a pig. It will set them back bad if they get wrecked.

T-Bob, I just think it really gets the pups hog crazy at an early age when you start them at like 12-16 weeks. If nothing else it just gives me something to do that I enjoy and a little interaction/bonding time with the pups. One thing I do know, for a FACT, it doesn't hurt the pups. I've always done it this way and never had any issues, lol.

But..you know...to each his own. Whatever works.

 I hate messing with hogs around the house. I refuse to keep shoats at the house, just a pain in the butt to me. I like to do like T-Bob said above. Right or wrong, I dont know. I have done some liver drags and such for very young dogs though around the yard. But for the most part I just feed them and let them run around the yard with the big dogs until I feel they are old enough to go on a hunt, then I just wait for a bay. For the first few times I like to make sure it is not a real big hog.
  In the past I have use a pen a little but I am not fond of using them at all.

Too me .......I don't want to have to work too hard to make a dog,I would rather have to hold one back from it's self than have to "Make one" !!! if I have to work too hard to make a dog a dog I would rather start over. I like sorta like T bob and Savoy said myself as well.

ONE mock hunt. Drag a tied hog through the woods about 100 yds then let him up and tie his bk leg to a tree so he's staked out. Let them find him and bay him then turn him loose and let them chase him and bay him. Then to the woods with the big dogs.

  lol well I am an old coon hunter  lol   and when I started this hog hunting thang I didn't know nary a hog dogger . but I knew the only difference was the game being hunted  .  I use the caged pig at the end as a reward and excitement for following a trail to it's end . I am talking about 2.5 to 3 month old pups trailing a track thru  all sorts of obstacles . and no need to risk getting young dogs or young pigs hurt . I can use the same shoat time and time again mainly  . then when the pups get proficient at the game I will let them find it and tie the pups back and release the pig into the wide open yonder and wait 30 minutes or so then let the pups go . I love laying drags and watching witch pups line it out and find it after I put a big skip in the track . and I have had pups as young as 3.5 months old bay up wild pigs that I didn't know were their while on a training exercise . just a lot of fun for me and an old family tradition . me and my little brother laid more trails for my granpaw than I care to remember just teaches a young dog the ropes a lot sooner than the wait and run with other dogs method .  by the time you turn them out with the big dogs they already know what's to be expected  .

Same goes with tree dogs HB, if they aren't trying to tree on there own in the yard by 6-8 months old I have found IMO you end up having to make that dog a dog vs him making a dog on his own.

I like natural hunting dogs and a little training here and there helps the pup learn what game you want...it doesn't need to be much but like halfbreed said...you will know which pup is born with it...

   I don't think you get it  . you are not trying to   '''make'' a dog these exercise are only allowing a dog to do what they are naturally gong to do . just starting at a much younger age and in a controlled setting . if the dog ain't got it it ain't gonna get it no matter what you do or how young you start them . i have done both the waiting till their old enough to keep up and starting them as pups , some from the same litter . but the pups with early training were out hunting with the big dogs while the ones held back were still figuring it out . but in the end both made dogs . i  just get a lot of enjoyment with messing with pups from a young age and either way is fine if you wanna wait , call me impatient  lol when i was on the farm i never penned pups till i would get tired of hollering at them to leave the cows alone and to quit terrorizing the barn cats that is them training themselves in an uncontrolled setting  when they started getting gamey like that it is time to start having them focus on the intended target animal in a controlled setting , and it works well for me  heck i got nothing but time anymore  .

Actually...I get it alot more than you think, have had top comp. coon,Sq and rabbit dogs and do very much get it. Problem is I want the best with natural abillity and I DON'T have the extra time for all the little training exercises. I want the best, natural dog I can get that I don't have to baby or coax along. I want to hunt with them, not play.

So..if you raise a few pups from a litter...you don't do anything at all until they are old enough to hunt?

If the rule is...even out of jam up sire and dam, all pups won't make dogs....haven't you wasted a lot of time or at least feed money on the pups that don't make?

A few simple runs will let you select the pups that show that natural talent.

I believe that's what Roberts getting at...that's what I think anyway.

I will say I respectfully disagree Kevin, a few simple traing excersizes will show you which pups want to bark at hog in a box (or in a pen) I won't speak for Bryant, but im not after a dog who will bark at a hog real fast and loud. It's just different styles is all, but barking at a hog doesn't show me who's gonna hunt, just who wants to play the current game your askin them to play.

I personally figure, if baypens and training exercises made (or showed) good dogs, then all the youngns on here who are always asking to buy pigs and constantly foolilng with 8 week old puppies and hog drag, shoats and so on would have the top notch dogs around. more often than not, that's not the case.
Yeah, our way may "waste" some feed, but as far as I'm concerned, I'm only getting pups from people who's dogs are much much much better than mine, so if the pup doesn't grow out to be as good as their top dogs, it'll still have a great chance of being good to me.

(Along with that, that is the reason I actual real cull. If even I think they ain't up to snuff, I don't want anybody else to have them to breed up dogs who may end up better than mine, AND the types of guys who I get pups from expect me to live by the gentlemanly ways.)

Again, that's all said with all due respect, this subject seems to hurt peoples feelings real fast and easy.

Also I'm not saying I'm against using a bay pen at all, I just don't personally like it for me.

i agree t bob and bryant . seeing what a dog does at a real young age might be a indication of the dog at maturity ... and it might not , i,ve seen lots of 5 months old super stars fizzle into duds by 18 months . ive seen lots of dogs ruined by pushing them too hard too young when they start showing promise . i ve ruint a dog about every way possible.

i don,t wanna raise and feed nothin but the best blood i can get a holt of and i let them run loose as long as i can , when they start harrassing the neighbors stock i put them up . at 10-12 months i work them several times and if they aint shonuff hookin up they are eliminated from the feed sack and the gene pool  ;)

  nope I don't think you're sincere t-bob ,  you hurt my feelings and I ain't gonna talk to you no more   lmao  .  but just different strokes for different folks  . that's what keeps life interesting . but I am stuck in my ways when it comes to dogs . I just like finding the naturals sooner than ya'll  . and as for culling I wont tell anybody I've done any as long as nobody goes  by the old farm with a backhoe and try and find a spot to dig without hitting bone no one will be the wiser . lol

   jdt I've heard that a lot about young dogs fizzleing out when they got older  but have yet to have one of my own do it , been lucky I guess they have all ways just kept on going  . have had a few pick up a bad habit now and again but it was correctable .

 these discusions are good and hopefully some will gain something that will work for them , whatever they choose to try the wait and see or work and know   lol

I like the way you put all that! ;D as far as wait and see or work and know; I still say all these high school boys who are constantly putting their puppy's in the bay pens 3-4 times per week and getting plum stiff over how good their dogs bay in a pen must have packs full of true jam up jelly tight hog dogs.

if only they weren't having to buy there pen hogs...  :D :D :D


Just kidding around folks, don't get butthurt

x2...

after 5 generations on the dam side and 3 generations on the sires side...talking about best to the best of linebred and inbred dogs I gave a 10 week old pup to one of my brothers for a blood trailing dog...I gave him a pup that had a good winding and trailing nose...two years later he wants to get rid of him because he never did anything with him...I took him and put him in the bay pen and took to baying like a pro pen dog...took him to the woods and he was hunting as good as the other dogs...second time out he took a hog by himself for a couple miles and swam the brazos...Someone caught thdog on the other side and called me to go get him...but he was a hunting dog...when breeding it is best to look for nature ability and inclination...if you have to hunt a dog 2 or 3 times a week to make a hunting dog out of it then we can expect the same from the pups...

the above paragraph I copied from another thread where I posted it...so yes...a well bred dog does not need to be exposed as a pup for it to do the job once he is started...even at 2 years of age...but all the dogs in this dogs background that I mentioned had been tested and exposed to trailing and baying shoats a few times so that I would know who started when and how well they could work out tracks...I even tested them for how they took to water and who swam like a gator...meaning that all you see is a wake and no splash just the water moving and the dogs head moving smoothly forward...I also noted if a 3 1/2-4 or 5 month old pup bolted the first time in the woods and went and made a big loop...all this was documented because I wanted early starters for hunting and breeding...early starters but those that did it naturally...we can call it training, conditioning or exposing the pups...the meaning is the same to me...but then the pup has to be hunting pretty good at 10 months old and one will always rise to the top and that one gets to breed...I also ran them and found out who had the heart to keep running and finish first...I let them run behind the truck and after a mile of hard running I let the lead dog beat me so that made me stop because that was the game...pass me up and I gave in...all this testing was only a game but it served a purpose for me and the pups...

loading pups and unloading pups and making trips here and there is all for a good reason...

the bay pen is nice but it shouldn't be over done...kind of like ice cream...a kid that has all he can eat too often and after a while he won't want any more...give him a little ice cream every now and then and he can't get enough...same principle with the pups in a bay pen...

staged hunts are good too...don't need many but a few...same thing with teaching them to bark when rigging the pups...stage the hog upwind and make sure you know exactly where the wind is carrying the hog scent across the road...when you get to that point encourage the dogs to bark and once they do drop the tailgate and let them go bay a hog...when using the bay pen the pups must know to respect the hog or the pup could get killed the first time in the woods...

I don't do much of this anymore but still know how...  ;D :)

it doesn't take days or weeks of doing all this just a few times here and there and it is all that is needed...

Or like some others have said on here...turn the pup in to the bay or turn the pup out in heavy and fresh hog sign...

all kinds of ways to start the pups but my vote is to work them when you can...just don't over do it...

i pick the first pup that drives for hog scent an first to bark.. it seems that they will all ways make a dog . 

we take lots of pigs and work pups we dont tie them or cage them take them to a big open field or pecan orchard and let them roll might take my wifes stud  chihuahua to get them on the right track.lol

The mock drags worked for Dan and Ann. they even help mop the floor!! lol!! I say do whatever works for you I don't think you can go wrong investing time training your pups just hope they don't get wrecked to young then you might have a big set back!!

Yup, Im not saying much but im sure reading and learning. Having a bay pen at the house is a blessing and a curse. Mine's a half acre woods pen. The Young dogs actually have to find the hogs and learn to work the hogs around obstacles. Thats great, i can work the dogs and stage mock hunts whenever i need/want too.

The downer is, Everytime i turn the dogs loose to stretch their legs thats where they go. Wont run an play in the yard, Just a one track mind, get that hog lol.