EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Reuben, after I posted my reply on the previous thread I decided it would be better to make a new one to keep the other thread on topic.

I know there’s people that do less and people that do more. As previously stated I’m pretty much starting over now, and have two pups from good blood to work with. After recent events I’m even more thankful to have these two from Justin, because everything is riding on them now.

If you were to start pups with very little help from a grown dog, what would be your process start to finish, from the time they’re a pup until they’re a very heavy started dog consistently finding pigs, and what’s the reasoning behind each step. I’ve already got a plan somewhat laid out in my head and have talked with Justin since the pups came from his yard. But I love reading all the advice from others to pick and choose stuff to implement from everybody. This is focused more on the hunting aspect; showing them pigs, doing mock hunts, tests, etc... I’m not too much worried about the discipline type training for this thread. Personally I rather worry about the fine tune stuff after the dog proves itself.

At this point, I have not messed with the puppies other than petting them a little bit when I feed them, watching and observing them, and giving them a little bit of exposure. Unlike the other young dogs I raised, I am purposely distancing myself from these two in hopes that they will have no desire to hang around me once we start hunting. As far as teaching them commands other than to come, I will worry about that down the road. I don’t want to take the time to teach them sit, stay, lay down, tone training, etc. until they prove they make the cut to stay.


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I remember you picking up the pups from Justin... I know it’s been a while back but don’t know how old they are...since you don’t have grown and trained hog dogs you will have to do a few mock hunts here and there with the pups...also they will have more confidence training and hunting together as pups...don’t burn them out on baying or catching...kind of like the kid who over indulged on ice cream he might not be as enthusiastic on his next gallon...so keep the pups wanting more...

Around the house I call the pups to me and pet them up but then I go about my business and the pups do their own thing...that is how I want it in the woods as well...

When the pups are old enough to hunt I would take them to the woods preferably where there is fresh hog sign and cast them...ignore pups and don’t call them to you unless it is time to go home...also, I would stage a couple times before heading to the woods to keep hog fresh in their minds...

The thing you really need to look out for is in making sure the pups will respect a good sized hog...if they are catching out on staged hunts (shoats)...this can be a recipe for a bad wreck in the woods on a big boar...they go straight in and catch out and they can be cut down before they know what happened...so hopefully you won’t make this mistake or they learn some respect on a big sow...

I am pretty sure Justin can tell you at what age these pups will start good in the woods and how they will hunt and what type of bottom they will have...that will be good info to have so you will have an idea as to what to expect...

Another thing...stay off the shock collar until the pups know the woods are a good thing and they have ran hogs a few times in the woods as a minimum...a friend of mine broke his pup from running deer the first few times in the woods and the pup was afraid to go back in the woods...we just need to be smarter than the dog...

I always hunt into the wind and crosswind and keep the probabilities of hog locations to be upwind from me...I also keep an eye on the dogs and if I think they are getting a whiff of hog scent now and then I will look the situation over and if I think the hogs are deep upwind I will move in that direction in hopes of helping the pups In picking up the scent and them going with it...good handling will bring out the best in your hunting dogs...

Hope this helps...

Thanks Reuben, with Dum Dum and Thorn dying, I’ve been feeling really down about where to go from here. But I’m hoping these pups can get me going again. I reached out to Justin and got his advice before posting anything here since he knows these dogs better than anyone. I also had the pleasure of hunting behind his dogs when I went down to get the pups.

As of right now I’m planning on setting up some mock hunts, and then hunting some easier properties before going to the major leagues. I think it will do them better to have successful hunts in the beginning instead of taking them to my main property where I know they will probably get smoked. It’s hard hunting.

Is that something you would agree with? Would you typically try to get them on easier hunts to start with?


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No doubt...easier is definitely better...they need to win as much as possible...this will only make them better hog dogs...

Y’all coming up with some good stuff. I do believe no such thing as enough training or handling. But I think in the end it don’t make that much difference to be honest. The biggest thing is you will know the dog better which ain’t a bad thing


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That's good info Reuben. Pretty much my thoughts too. I didn't mention it but you did. I don't let my pups get bored or tired before I lead them away and I always exaggerate the praise.

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I liked your post on the other thread T-dog, sounds like you and Reuben are very similar on the way you both train. And I won’t have them getting bored doing it, since I no longer have a pen to keep pigs, I will be killing the pig at the end of each mock hunt and cooking up some sausage lol. That way it should be very realistic for them (where I’m at we have to kill pigs, we absolutely can not catch and release or take alive).

On the mock hunts, are you tying the pig to a tree, putting it in a crate, or just letting it run loose once they’re finding them? And at what distance are you doing the mock hunts from the first hunt, to when they are basically hunting for real?


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Thanks T-dog...seems you and I are in agreement on most hog dog subjects...sometimes we say it in a different way from each other but the meanings are the same...

Austesus...I’m having to go way back...lol

this is how we trained the pups to rig. We tied a pig in the woods between 50 and 75 yards in...I put up a small marker exactly where the wind coming from the pig crossed the path we were going to drive through later... I wanted to be 100 percent positive the pups were smelling pig if I needed to fire them up...we waited a little while and drove slowly around rigging the pups...then we drove by where scent was crossing the road and once I knew the pups could smell hog I fired them up if needed it...turned them loose and let them find and bay...if they circle close by then I would slowly move towards pig if needed...they usually don’t need help unless you stage the pig further in the woods...

The other mock hunts...of course deeper in the woods is always better so you can simulate a real hunt as much as possible...I would say a quarter mile is good but less is ok...you can tie the pig or tie a short rope to a rear foot with a weight on it and turn it loose...

Let your imagination be your guide...

I know it’s easy to say and do when you have the experience which is...do the right things at the right times and your dogs will be better for it...just keep that in mind and take full advantage of any opportunities that present themselves when hunting...well bred pups and dogs do not need much training...mostly they need guidance...

I'm get off the soap box after this one. One of the big mistakes I see, especially with less experienced hunters is they try to think like people to train their dogs and hunt their dogs. You have to think like dog in order to get through to them.

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Great advice, how do you do about with progressing to harder mock hunts? Do you do several the same way and then make it slightly more difficult? Or is each hunt harder than the last? Let’s say I set up a mock hunt but the pups struggle with it for whatever reason, and I have to help them more than I wanted to. The next time, should I repeat the same difficulty, make it easier, or make it more challenging?

T-Dog, stay up on the soap box lol! This forum is an awesome opportunity for guys that have only been hunting for a few years to get some great advice from the older guys on here. I like hearing what everyone has to say. Some I agree with and some I don’t. But everyone has at least one bit of advice that can help others and people that are wise will listen to what everyone has to say and pick and choose what they want to use and how they want to use it.


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It is hard to make it harder...you walk hunt your dogs so you decide how you want the pups to find the pig...

You can have quite a few staged hunts but I used 3 or 4 staged hunts for pups and young dogs...I just wanted them to get the idea that hogs are to be found in the woods when hunting...

I guess what I mean when referring to making it harder, I mean something like this...

First time I want it easy and fast so they don’t quit the track, give up, or have to have me guide them too much. So let’s say I do a straight line drag, 150 yards through the woods. They find it and do everything as I hoped.

So then the second time, let’s say I make it 250 yards, but put a few turns and twists in the track when I drag it. They do okay, lose the track a few times, but end up finding it and completing it successful.

So for the third maybe I would do 300yds, but make the track much longer by having a lot of turns in it and have it go up and down a few hills so they really have to stay on it.

Then maybe on a fourth I make it much more difficult by crossing a creek with the track.


In my head that’s kind of what comes to mind when I think of progressing it to be more difficult each time out. After deer season ends I want to be hunting a lot. So between now and then I would like to do increasingly difficult mock hunts to get the pups as prepared as possible for the real deal. Kind of like T-dog said in his post, I want the dogs to think they’re hog dogs and not realize that I’ve been doing all this. I feel that if I do just one or two easy ones and then take them to hunt without my lead dog, they’re going to get smoked and not understand why the track is a lot harder for them to work. I don’t want to teach them to quit a hard track.


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What you said is way better than what I said...it by far way better...I just know it will be some hard work...

On the other hand I look for pups that have it natural in them...some pups will take it and make it look easy without too much training...but the more scenarios the better for all pups...

Just like there are pups that take to it like a baby duck takes to water there are some that no matter how many tracks you feed them they will never click...

I completely understand that. Even though they come from great blood and I’ve seen the parents and Uncle hunt, I also know not every dog makes the cut. I told Justin that if they don’t prove themselves I’ll just harass him for some more lol


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I use one of two things. I have a small steel frame cage that I can put 30 or 40 pound shoat in or a piece of 4x4 square panel. I will take it out to the woods and set the cage out or wrap the panel around a couple of smaller trees. Say it's the first mock hunt for my pups. I will let them watch me drag the hog into the brush. Once he is untied and in the cage or panel, I go right back and immediately release the pups. That's about as simple as it gets. After they've bayed to my satisfaction I catch and exaggerate the praise and lead them out. I make each hunts difficultly according to how well they did on the previous one. You can make it harder in a lot of ways depending on what you have access to. I make it harder by laying longer tracks, or crossing water, or the amount of time that I allow the track to sit before I release them. I use the same area usually because it's what I have for convenience but I try to lay the track from a different direction each time. I usually finish it by  putting a pretty decent boar 100 to 150ish in the panel with feed and water and leave him for a couple days so that there is no track to push. Then I send them into the wind and wait. By this time they have hog on the brain when I release them. If for some reason they don't find it and start getting frustrated, I just ease in towards it little by little until they do.  Each hunt, except for the first couple, I snap the pups to trees and either hobble 2 legs or put a drag on one leg and release it for them to have a make shift race. This sounds like a lot of work because it is. I could make bigger steps and this family of dogs would be fine because they do have the natural instincts and brains. My thinking is this though. I know the minimum age they will be when I start taking them on live hunts. So that being said I have enough time to take the baby steps and have that much more confident of a pup when live hunt day rolls around. I split a litter of 4 once with a buddy. They were out of my family of dogs. Deal was I got a pup but I wanted 2. So he would give me the second pup if I took his 2 and started them along with mine. Both of those pups struck their own hog on their first hunts. The male actually winded off of the machine and he cut him loose and he went straight in and put up bay. They already thought they were hog dogs.

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T-dog, that’s pretty much my goal. Due to my lead dog getting killed I’m limited what I can do with my grown dogs. His sister would pick up lead, but I’m now putting her up to save the blood. All that leaves me with is his sisters daughter Punk, and my Ladner Scooter. Scooter is only started. He’s close to 4 years old but I didn’t take him much because all my dogs except him will catch. He’s not a very rough dog and I was limited on collars so he didn’t get to go much. But he went enough that I feel he should be better than he is, so I focused on other dogs instead. The dog Punk is about 2, she’s been great so far. She has not found her own pig but she used to stick with Dum Dum and has not backed down from catching yet. She is only about 35-40lbs and does more damage to a hog than most dogs I’ve seen. So pretty much a solid RCD.

Where this comes in to play is the land that I hunt. I have several places but the main spot is 180k acres on the river, I hunt it for farmers. Tons of pigs but no vehicle access (not even four wheeler in most spots) and the pigs move like crazy. So I’m forced to walk hunt and I might have to walk 5 miles before I even find fresh sign, it’s a total guessing game as to where they are. Once you kill one, all the others will leave, they might move 10 miles down river. And they are god awful runners. I’ve seen some very good dogs come out there and get smoked, either by the distance/time the pigs will run, or because they will zig zag back and forth across the river. Some very nasty briar beds and swamps that are hard on dogs too. If I took them here I think I would be setting them up for failure. They would more than likely catch nothing and start to quit or trash because they’re bored.

I have a few easy spots to go but it’s either WMA that’s only a few days out the year, or it’s properties that are invite only as opposed to being able to go any time I want to. This is why I’m wanting to get them so good at these mock hunts. I hope that I can basically have them “hunting for real” by the end of it, and then take them to an easy property where they should definitely be able to run and stop some pigs. And then after all that I will try to take them to my other property. I fully expect the harder pigs to shake them, but I hope that after a few hunts there they will be able to figure out how to stop those educated hogs.

What is your opinion of using a grown dog with pups for the mock hunts? I planned on using scooter for the first one, to make sure they know what they’re supposed to be doing. But is there a reason it would be better to only take the two pups and just drop the pair of them with no help?


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I don't use old dogs for the simple fact that I want them to be independent and thinking they have to do it because nobody else is gonna. They are young and most young dogs are gonna follow an older dog. That's nature in most every species. They aren't suppose to find ahead of an older dog. If they do you likely don't have a real good older dog. It might happen here and there but I mean consistently find ahead of them. I want them to hit the ground thinking let's go find ole porky not thinking ok let's see where old red is going. Don't ever think you gotta beg a dog to do it. If you do they are culls. If you have to get on your hands and knees to show them how to smell a track they are culls. That's what guys like Reuben, bigo, and the old man are talking about with the natural instincts. The  training is as much for my benefit as it is theirs. If I know they aren't going to make the grade, then they aren't occupying a spot on a hunt that another dog could be in that does have the potential. You have to be honest with yourself and not let pedigree or sentimental attachment blind you. If it's too hard to get them going and you don't see improvement or want to, then find something else. That old dog can't make them want to be lead dogs. That's why I leave no doubt on the first mock hunt about what's out in the woods by letting them see me drag the hog into the woods. If they aren't curious enough to go see what it was you were dragging or where it went no matter how much or how little hog exposure they have, then I'd bet you have a pretty bad problem already. This is one of those one those instincts that has to be there. I let my pups run and play in the water and run in the woods just to explore and learn to navigate and find their way back. I usually just set in a lawn chair until.they they get bored then its back to the yard or kennel depending on how old they are. If you have to keep calling them to you as you move closer towards the hog to get them there because they only want to get out of the woods and back to their comfort zone,  then you have a problem. I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at.

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Thanks T-dog, that makes a lot of sense. As I do some mock hunts I’ll give updates on here to tell how they’re doing. Hopefully this thread can tell some other people as well


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Well fellas, just got a call from my buddy that lives about 45 minutes from me and said he has two small pigs in the trap, about 15lbs. Gonna try to line schedules up to have my hunting buddy go get them tomorrow while I grab the pups after work and then we are gonna meet up where we are doing the mock hunt. Gonna try out your idea T-dog and drag them in the woods where the pups can see them. I think we will plant the first one about 150yds in the woods, with his back leg tied to a tree. And then put the second one about 150yds past that to let them relay on to him.


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That’s awesome...keep us posted...

Since the title is training pups...

There are a few things I have learned over the years...

I try never to give a command if I can not enforce it...I will ignore it if possible until the next opportunity...but with the red Ryder I can reach out and touch them and they will adhere to my command...I do not let my emotions go past the correction...the pups or dogs will learn you are ok with them and they will learn it is the correction you are after and they will understand that because that is how mama dog operates with her pups, they are familiar with that concept...this type of correction style will teach the pups to respect you yet they will not fear you just as they do with their mama...they have a healthy respect for her and when she speaks they listen and give her space...same with us...

Older dogs...seems a succession of threes with the red Ryder works best at certain times...and a succession of three “a-a-a’s” works best for verbal corrections...
The “a’s” sounds like the “a” when pronouncing “AT”...I went into detail on account this how I handle verbal corrections and that sound gets their attention...

Pups don’t get the Ryder and older dogs sometimes get it from a good distance...many will disagree but this way works for me...

Back to pups...I usually use the puppies hunger to my advantage during training sessions or just as opportunities while feeding and other times...

First example...

I used to feed puppies first before turning them out this way the kennels stayed clean longer...my logic was the pups will poop in the yard while playing...well the pups never wanted in the kennel after eating because it is more fun in the yard...so I called and they ran away from me and I had to catch each one...then after a while they got big enough and they learned they could outrun me...all negative things...I was getting frustrated and it seemed all was going south...also, they were starting to not trust me because of all the negativity...

Second example...

It occurred to me that I was going to live with a little more poop in the kennel between kennel washings...but I had to do something different...so started turning the puppies loose before feeding so they play and work up an even greater appetite...clean/wash kennels while puppies are playing and then feed pups...I called pups, rattled food bowl and they came running and they were jumping up and down on my legs begging for food...I petted them up, fed them and closed the gate behind me...that was easy...so then I thought... I can exaggerate my calling...call the same as I would call them out of the woods and clap my hands...that is training for the future...and as they come running I say kennel and give the hand signal...that is I unbelievable easy...the pups are getting familiar as to how I call the dogs out of the woods...they are also learning to come when called and learning to kennel with a hand signal as well...that is easy too easy...using their hunger and momentum to my advantage and it is all positive...promoting trust and minimizing situations that could possibly promote fear...

Proper Consistency...


Sometimes we are sending mixed messages to the pups...we need to make sure we are consistent with our puppy training...

Scenario 1...

We want the pups to not be nuisance barking so we constantly get on to them...but then we get up in the morning and the pups are barking when they see you...and you walk up and pet them and talk to them as they bark...so every time you step out the back door they will bark as you try quiet them down...
You step out and you go to them so they quiet down...so now they think they have trained you to come when they bark...and when you drive up from work they know the sound of your truck and they will go to barking and you hurry to the back to quiet them down...that is more negative reinforcement...

Scenario 2...

You step out the back door and pups bark...I ignore them and walk to my garage and go about my business...if they are barking and I need to go to them I wait until they quit barking for a few minutes before I step out and go to them...I don’t want them to associate them barking to get me over to them... I on purpose set up a scenario once in their kennel so they can bark and I give the command to stop and spray water on them until they stop barking and repeat until they stop before I turn in...

Once they are older the red Ryder will assist and sometimes Garmin bark collars...but doing it this way really helps I just wish I knew a better way...where I live I can’t have barking issues...

Great info Reuben. I also learned to teach my woods call a little easier with Justin’s pups. My other dogs I taught to come when I gave the command “come” or “here”, with the new pups I started them from day one by calling “yo yo yo” the same way I call them from hunting. I inflict my voice almost like a yodel, not really sure how to describe it but it carries far in the woods and works well. I started teaching the pups by calling it out when I was going to feed them. Now they run over excited anytime I do it.

The barking is one thing that I have a hard time with. My dogs are in kennels so I can not use a red Ryder, anytime I’m around the kennels they raise cane. I used to holler at them and they would somewhat listen but with no real way to enforce anything with them inside the kennels, I’ve gotten to where I just pay them no attention.


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Also I sort of implemented part of what you do the other day with a hog head. I realized I had a whole 25lb pig in the freezer I forgot about. I pulled it out and chopped it up to give the dogs. I normally give them the whole pig, all cut up with an axe. That day I decided to just give them meat and none of the organs. In the past I never gave the head but instead of giving my female pup cut up meat, I gave her the head with some neck still on it. She didn’t mess with the actual head much but by the next day she did eat most of the neck off. My hope is that it will predispose her to be rough on the head of a hog. My dog Punk was fed a lot more pig ears then any of my other dogs and she’s by far the most destructive to a pig. Idk if it’s a coincidence or not but I have pictures from her first few pigs where she tore their entire face to pieces by the time I got there. If you hunt to release or to tie I suppose this would be a bad trait. But hunting to kill them for farmers, this is good to me. If all my dogs do that, that pig isn’t going anywhere and is less likely to hurt a dog if it’s being killed instead of just being held


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Austesus, I don't like to see a chewed up head. The reason being is this. What had to happen for that head to get chewed up? Naturally the dog had to bite the hog. If the dog holds that then it has control of the hog, but its constantly regripping, or moving from spot to spot the dog isn't controlling the head. If it's not controlling the head and still chewing the head up, then the hog is being given extra chances to do damage to that dog or any others that are helping thinking that the dog on the head is in control. Chewing, regripping, or moving around will also get ears pulled off or chewed off, and then a bad hog has the upper hand. The further away you are from the situation the more damage the dogs are taking because of this. If my dog catches then it better commit whole heartedly or get back. I want one bite mark on the ear and at the base. Of course they my have to get a deeper bite from time to time, the hog isn't going to pose and allow them to get comfortable but there is a difference in that and always regripping or chewing. A lot of dogs will chew on smaller hogs that can't put any pressure on the dog or that the dog doesn't feel threatened by. I've seen a lot of dogs cut and some ruined and killed by "caught" hogs. This style I'm speaking of and then inability to control a hog are the 2 leading reasons for it. It doesn't usually happen to a prospect or dud. It will be your #1 that it happens to. JMO

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T-dog, I think it’s because I typically run 5-6 dogs on the ground, and they all catch. So with all of them grabbing and pulling in different directions the pig is getting strung out. I have some that will get a solid hold on the ear, I think with them holding that dog literally tries to eat the pigs head. I know what you’re saying about re-gripping, I think it applies a lot more if you’re running less catch dogs too though


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I use a hog head with the meat of the neck on...
Before feeding pups their morning meal throw the head in the middle of the yard and turn the pups loose and they will go to it and all will pile up and eat...I don’t let them over eat...I want them to want more when I pull them off...they will be between 5 and 6 weeks old...

The next time I tie a line to a hog head and then I drag it on the run so they give chase...again I let them feed on it for a little while...

The idea behind these exercises is to instill hog in their minds...

Breaking to gun fire...

I don’t totally break the pups to gunfire but it can be done very easily...

Get the pups used to your calling them to you at 9 or 10 weeks...

Step out the back door about a week before breaking them to gunfire and call the pups to you and give them all a piece of meat...

In a few days repeat calling them and give treat to each of them again...they will be jumping up and down wanting more treats...

The third time...call them as usual and as they run to you fire a cap pistol once...watch them close to ensure all Pups are ok with the bang...

Repeat next day and if ok with first shot fire again...maybe even three times...if pups are ok give them their treats...

Repeat the next day and but now also fire in their mist and pet them up really good...the gunpowder is strong amongst them and a quick petting for the ones that shied a little...but most of the pups don’t have gunfire on their minds...they have getting a treat on their minds...

This is not total gun breaking but it is a good start...if I shoot over the dogs they won’t quit hunting and they won’t run to the truck...

If I really wanted to totally gun break them I would repeat in 3 or 4 weeks...just watch the pups and adjust according to their reactions...

Lh cracker, which part? It seems to work well for me. It could be a coincidence with the ears, but that dog is by far more destructive to a pig than my others. I have pictures to show it but I won’t upload those ones for public view.

Or if you’re talking about T-dogs point of not holding one solid grip, I haven’t had issues with it with the amount of dogs I was running. They clicked well together. Now I’ll be the first to say it’s pretty rare for me to catch big teeth, but I have caught some and I’ve never had a dog cut down bad. But, as we all know it only takes one time for something to happen.


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So I did the mock hunt with a few buddies yesterday morning. Not as well as I wanted it to go but I think it was a good start. First pig was 115yds from the truck, second was about 150yds past that. The pups were smelling out the track but wouldn’t go far and would come back like they weren’t quite sure what I wanted them to do. I had to walk them in pretty close and they hated the first one for a few minutes. Definitely still seemed uneasy after the other experience with a pig had scared them. Well they got tighter and tighter and caught out. Go that pig put up, came back to the dogs and walked them back towards the other pig for 30ft so they wouldn’t immediately run back to where we carried the other pig off.

Same thing, they weren’t tracking as well as I hoped but caught out immediately. I grabbed my male Hopper and leashed him. That left my female and my buddies female on the pig, they backed up and were baying. Hopper is definitely the one controlling the catch aspect. After letting them bay for a minute we grabbed them and turned the pig loose and let them run him down. Then did the same with the first pig.

It ended much better than it started. After a few more times I think they’ll be doing much better. They definitely wanted the pigs after they caught the first time, they just have to figure out how to use their noses to line it out.


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Sounds like they did very well...

If they aren’t taking the track when starting the pits on your next mock hunt walk slowly and retrace your steps from the beginning...go slow and encourage the...this should help

Sounds like they did very well...

If they aren’t taking the track when starting the pups on your next mock hunt walk slowly and retrace your steps from the beginning...go slow and encourage them...this should help

Good stuff. They ain’t running up to the pig because they don’t know that’s what to do yet. I guarantee they smell it. If your in ? On what to do do nothing other then let them out where you set the hog don’t walk them to the hog you think your helping but your not. Get a bottle of hog piss pour on a rag and drag that to the hog. Just let them out by the drag at what ever distance turn them loose and just sit and wait no matter hog long it takes. It truly will make a difference.

Thanks guys. They definitely smelled it, since the pigs were small, me and buddy both held a pig by the backlegs and dragged them, so there was a good track for them. They had their noses all in it but they just seemed like they weren’t sure what I wanted from them. They would go about 20-40 yards and then come back and kept doing it over and over again. So we would slowly walk forward 10-15 feet and wait. We did this repetitively until we were about 30 yards from the first pig and then they found it. Once they started baying I was encouraging them and coaxing them. They were definitely looking at it like a threat after the one other time they saw a pig in a pen a while back and it ran them over. Once they got close they started really chopping in his face and then my male hammered him.

At this point I was really excited and thought they’d run straight to the second pig. This time they definitely did seem like they were trying to hunt a little harder, but again I had to slowly walk them pretty close to it. Hopper caught right off the bat, then my buddy’s female pup he got from my litter a while back caught with him. Hopper definitely was the one initiating the catch so I leashed him to a tree and let the two females work the pig. My female didn’t seem to have much interest. I’m hoping she’s just a little slow to start. I don’t have other dogs to put time in right now so I will give her plenty of opportunity before I give up on her. My male is looking good. Next we turned that pig loose and they ran him down quick. Did that again and gave him too much time and they lost him.

We went back to the first pig and turned it loose and they gave him a good chase for about 80 yards then stopped him. I really think the switch flipped for my male. I’m hoping the next mock hunt I won’t have to guide them as much. By the end he for sure wanted pig, he caught very hard with a deep bite, exactly what I’m wanting.


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Briefly skimmed through the post and one thing I didn’t see and maybe could’ve over looked, teach them how to use their nose first and what exactly that thing with two holes on the end of their snout is there for, from about 8-10 weeks on until it becomes a problem I walk my pups just about each night and shine rabbits, once I spot one I just ease on over that way not saying a word or giving any sort of body language once I get to where I saw the rabbit or saw where it entered the woods I just hang out and observe, first week or so may not seem productive but once pup starts putting it all together and letting their nose become their eyes things seem much easier when the real time comes, whether it be on a hunt or in a mock hunt, by now the pup already has the basic concepts of how follow a scent trail, and is not being bombarded with all sorts of new things all at once, I never do any mock hunts per say, I’m fortunate enough to let my pups run loose and will bay them in a pen some but once they take a liking to running game they go on a chain or kennel and big boy school starts, I’ve not done it consistently but enough to see good enough results that it’s becoming routine with each set of pups, I wrap a deer leg if available in hot wire and sporadically place it around the yard and let them green break themselves, take the pups to feeders where the hogs have been but not real recent and let them introduce themselves to hog scent in their own time and accord, I use to think by raising pups in and around the house and building and friendship and bonding with them I was ruining them, that’s NONSENSE, I just wasn’t dealing with good stock to begin with, yes it can be over done and hinder performance but that’s usually a handler error by always calling the pups back as soon as they get a little distance which conditions the pups to never leave very far past that recall boundary, if the genetics are there to begin with then Mother Nature will take over regardless, in the meantime you and the dog know each other better and have built a trust, which later on down the road will pay dividends...

Great advice Goose. As far as using the nose I was talking about that after me and my buddy finished with the mock hunt and as I started thinking about it I realized that a lot of the guys with early starting pups probably let them run loose. I don’t say that to make any excuses for what they did or didn’t do, but if a pup runs loose it only makes sense that he has taught himself to use his nose around the house. All of mine stay in kennels unless they’re hunting.

I also like the idea of wrapping deer legs in hot wire. I’ve personally seen dogs that were shocked too much to trash break them and now they will not hunt with a collar that has prongs. They will sit right at your feet unless you swap the collar out. I’m not sure how much of it is the dog and how much is the person but I do think some dogs can’t mentally handle being shocked to the extent some people do it. One of the guys that I no longer hunt with was like that, he would shock his dogs for any and everything with no real thought behind it. The only time I’ve really used it is for tone training. My Dum Dum dog was the only one that I really tone trained but he knew that after a series of 3 beeps he got shocked if he wasn’t heading back towards me. This was really helpful around water. Sometimes he would cross water and not want to cross back so I used the tone one time and as soon I did he dived right in to avoid the shock lol.

On the part about bringing the pups in and around the house... with the two I have now I changed my approach and decided to try to not mess with them outside of feeding (all my other dogs have been house broken and raised inside). It has worked in the sense that they don’t seem to spend as much time focusing on me, but I quickly realized there’s a fine line with this when I went to put collars on them the first time and they thought I was trying to murder them since I hadn’t handled them like that before.


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Austesus it's a big deal to let them explore for a lot of reasons. If they have it they have it but that one thing sure can make it easier. I like to pull out a chair or drop the tailgate and sit. I stay there and I let them go do their thing and come back  and do it all again. Every now and then one will get lost and bark lost. I'll give him a call if another pup hasn't gone and intercepted him after a couple barks. Then when it gets back to me I just sit and let it continue on. I try to pay attention to how long they leave out for. Sometimes my pups will get out too far. If they leave for 20 minutes and I can't hear any activity I will call them. I'll pet them a little then back to ignoring them. You can't put go in them but you can feel their range in. My buddy had the same blood as I do. His dogs weren't anywhere near as rangy as mine and it was all because of the way he hunted. He walk hunted. His walk was as fast as a lot of people's jog lol. This along with he was always calling them back into him shortened their range because they were as concerned about what he gonna do as hunting. He rarely just stopped and let them hunt. If he turned them out at his house and just let them run while he worked around the house, he more times than not had to make the mile and a half trip down to the creek and kill what they had bayed.

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T-Dog,
I think I’ll start doing that some more outside of doing mock hunts. I can’t do it at my house because of the close roads and I don’t want them going in to neighbors yards (I only have 3.5 acres)... but my buddy that is helping me out by providing the pigs for the mock hunts has a lease about 45-50 minutes from me. I’m the only person he lets hog hunt in there, other than that he just has two members that pay him annually to still hunt for deer. I could go there and drive in one of the roads and just hangout on the tail gate for a while to let them wander off. My only concern is if they actually do stumble on a pig, he doesn’t have any big teeth that we’ve seen there but there are two sounders on the property and I wouldn’t want the pups to get in the sounder inexperienced and get ran over by a few sows. I may do it and take my slightly older dog Punk. That way if they do, she will at least be there to help catch the pig. I suppose it would help her with learning to range out as well. She will go to 300-400 yards but as far as I know she’s never struck a pig, just stuck with lead dog as a RCD. When she goes out I honestly don’t know if she’s hunting or just screwing around


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What style of dogs does Justin raise? I can't remember if they are rough or looser type. I'm not sure under your circumstances that I wouldn't bait some hogs and start hunting. That's a long drive one way for leisurely stroles. They are 8 or 10 months old if I remember correctly? The old man's method would probably serve you as well here as anyone's. The only thing is you can't judge them as harshly as he might for the simple fact that his pups get to roam and explore up until working age. Yours haven't had that luxury so they aren't going to be as woods savvy. They are going to make some losses and probably get lost a time or 2. This is where you as a handler can help. If it was me, I would go to that spot where the loss was made and stand while they try to work it out. Having a dog there that already knows what's going on should help them overcome it. If they have brains and want to, they will likely be fine. And never think there isn't a tush hog lurking around. I say bait the hogs because you want your dogs to think it's time for business every time they get loaded. Once my pups get started doing mock hunts the woods trips to just run and explore are over. Its business everytime they are loaded from then on. Plus your older dog will gain a little confidence on a couple easier quick strikes. I wouldn't do this a lot because you can make them lazy. I know people that hunt feeders. They pull up and the dogs hunt a 150-200 yard circle around it and if they come back they load them.and go to the next one. I've came behind them.and found hogs so many times. It isn't that they don't have decent dogs, but the dogs are doing what they've been spoiled to. The hogs didn't hit the feeders for one reason or another so there was no hot sign.

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When I got my first pack of dogs, it was myself and a buddy. Neither of us had 2 pennies to rub together but we'd not eat ourselves to be able to buy dog food lol. We split the cost on our first pup, it was $10 each. We took every free bee or stray that we thought would look at a hog. We messed with the dogs EVERYDAY. By the time our $20 pup was a year old she was better than most 2yr olds out there. By the time she was 2 dogs in their prime had better be on their A game or she would be showing them how it was done. The main ingredient here is she had brains and want to. We afforded her the opportunity to make it and she capitalized on it.

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Justin’s dogs are rough, as far the small details he is obviously much more knowledgeable than I am with them, but his dogs are very intelligent which is one thing I like so much about them. There’s a good chance that they will find a pig on that lease I’m talking about. It’s my buddies deer lease so he has feeders that the pigs come to every night. The good thing is his biggest pig on camera is about 150lbs so nothing too big, I just don’t want a mean one to whip the pups before they’ve built some confidence. I agree about not always dropping  him on feeders also, I want them to get out and hunt for the track themselves.

I sent my a buddy a message about it a few hours ago and he said as soon as deer season ends (January 1st for us) that we can go out to the place to do it. His property is really the only place that I can go with roads, and it’s the only place with feeders. Easy pigs that don’t have any pressure outside of still hunting, so I was already planning to start the pups there before taking them to some of the harder places I hunt.

I’ve got a line on a new place that is about 600 acres with dirt roads all through it. All sand and pine trees from what I saw (had to tow my cousins truck to his buddies camper that’s on the land) but the owner of the land told my cousin there’s pigs and that I can hunt them whenever I want. I’m a little skeptical because I know that area and haven’t seen pigs that far from the river, but if it checks out I think it will be a good spot to start pups as well due to the roads and the lack of pressure.

So far, the male pup I got from Justin is looking like he will click. His mannerisms and behavior look good. He was a submissive dog and very laid back. His sister was the dominant one that ran the pen when I had them together, she didn’t seem too interested in the pigs, but I’m hoping she will click soon, she’s a beautiful pup, I want her to prove herself so I can breed some that look like her lol


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Not trying to sound like an a$$, but you want rough dogs and run rough dogs already but you’re afraid of them getting hurt?

It’s hard to provide you the advice you’re looking for under those circumstances.

Hunt them.  Just take them out and hunt them.  I sure wouldn’t pair them up with a rough dog on a pups first woods hunt, but that’s me.  They’ll find out on their own which end hurts unless they just have that much catch bred into them. 

Take them out of their kennel every day, let them run around your yard and experience the world.  Haul them in your truck all you can - even if it’s to the grocery store.

You can mock hunt till you’re blue in the face, but IMO a dog is made in the woods.

Yes I run rough dogs, but I’ve been set back and am basically starting over so I don’t want to set two pups up for failure by running them by themselves until they’re ready. They’re not mature enough for a true rank hog. I have two other dogs now, one is a young dog that has made a good RCD, the other one is put up to save the blood. That is why I am wanting to do so many mock hunts, to gradually increase pig size and build confidence and experience so that I don’t take them hunting right off the bat and have them get killed because they didn’t know any better.

Where I live I can’t let dogs run loose, I only have 3.5 acres and have problems with my neighbor so I can’t risk a dog going in their yard. My goal here is to let the two puppies “hunt” in an environment controlled by me until they are ready for the real deal. I have one property with some easier pigs and I don’t ever see teeth there, everywhere else has the potential for them to come up on an experienced dog killer. At a little under a year old, I don’t believe they’re ready for that yet. They need to learn how to control a hog without getting beat on before I allow them to run in to something that’s 300lbs or bigger with shanks.

I have always had 4-6 dogs on the ground that were straight catch, I’m switching my style up after losing my lead dog and my catch dog and I want to hunt these two pups by themselves, or with just the one other young dog. I no longer have a dog that I can use to really teach them. My lead dogs sister isn’t going to hunt anymore because I want her alive for breeding now that he’s gone.


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Sounds like you are on the right path, keep those dogs in the woods even if it is mock hunts then once they know what a hog is and can get one bayed on their own in a mock hunt start running them by themselves. This is a time where your ability as a hunter will come into play. Help them as much as you can by dropping them in sign and in places you know hogs will be, guide them in the direction you know they are moving etc. Be patient with them as it might take them a little longer to figure it out due to not having any dogs to show them. Find you a walk in catch dog unless you already have one, that way you have more control of when and where the catch is made so that you can be there. Then once they have some experience and you know what kind of dogs they are meaning where they are on the spectrum of straight catch to loose, then you may want to run RCD's with them or you may choose not to. I am sure you already know this anyways, just some thoughts. Good luck with your new pups!

Thanks rednose, I’m itching for deer season to be over. That will open up the spot that is going to be the best place I have to start them. Once I’m able to take them out to that lease I will be able to work them a lot more than I am now


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What works for me is little to no baypen work, jump out races a few times, then the woods. I try not to shock them off cows etc until they have been praised for baying a pig

havent been around here in a little while, I just read through this thread. Pretty much anything that I would say has already been added by others. Keep in mind that I have not messed with mine at all aside from letting them ride in the buggy and bringing them to the woods 3 times before deer season started just to let them explore and be puppies, I would not worry much about the female not really firing off yet. Unfortunently you do not have the ability to start yours like I do mine do to your recent losses so you have to go about it differently than I would by utilizing mock hunts. I would follow the suggestions that have already been made regarding mock hunts but utilizing bigger hogs....80-100lbs would do the trick in my opinion (similar to what we have spoken about) and then start pouring the coals to em in the woods. the more experience you give em the better off they will be in the long run and remember at the end of the day they are still just pups....alot of folks dont even start messing with em til they are well over a year of age. keep doing what you are doing and they will figure out the rest.

Absolutely Justin, I’m hoping that they will be heavy started before I come down again. Then I’ll bring them with me to hunt them with the rest of the family lol. Like we talked about, I’m going to try and increase pig size. A lot of that just depends on what my buddy gets in his trap but hopefully he’ll get some that are a good size. I’m curious to see how the male does with catching a bigger pig.


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