HB 2833 Update

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Sorry folks, it appears my questions have been taken the wrong way, I have been a big supported of 2833 from the start. I have asked questions because I have no behind the scene knowledge about what is going on with 2833 and was trying to find the best way to help this bill pass.

I am quite sure however that I have never supported a hsus bill, not sure what you are referring to M.

I will re-frame from any more question.

Thanks,
Paul T

[TColt]

I have talked to several tdha members who don't know what's going on with the bill because they have been out of the loop. It's hard to keep up and help out when everything hits a private board that I'm not a member of.

One thing I think needs to happen, two years from now in the next session, is every dog organization in the state needs to be in the loop of writing a bill. We also need to get bird doggers on board big time, that's where the money and power is. I don't know of many govt officials that hog dog, but there is a damn lot who shoot birds.

When Paul say "you" I think he is referring to the people who are in the loop of trying to get this bill passed. I don't think he meant anything by it. I'm not a LSWD member but I would be so happy if the bill passed. Ban me now, but if someone takes the word "you" personal, sounds to me that they are the ones with personal issues...

[TColt]

Not to mention the times I have seen Paul on the phone, bustin his @$$ and takin his personal time for 2833.

[Mike]

TColt... everything about HB2833 has been posted on this website for the world to see, and updates given as they were received.

[aladatrot]

Paul, I'm not saying don't ask questions. Dialogue is how we expand our minds. As I said earlier, it may be that you don't see the negatism that I was reading from your posts. This has been going on for a while though and I can show you the instant your posts went from "all for the bill" to "it is junk", paraphrased of course. It was evident in the posts. I don't know what happened, but as an outsider reading in it was pretty obvious.

If you are all for 2833, great. Perhaps I am taking your posts the wrong way. As for the hsus bill, maybe I read your post wrong but it sounded like once you conversed with the author of 1451 you were working with them on that bill. Not sure if you still are working with them or not though. Like I said, I don't typically have a problem with you or your posts, but this has been wearing on me. I guess I was misreading your intentions and I apologize if that is not how you mean your posts to come across.

Tcolt, anyone is welcomed to author a bill. While in his down time serving active duty in Iraq, lance authored this bill. He rebounded some ideas off of some lswda members and lswda ran with it. There was no intention to leave anyone out of the loop, as all the information was provided on the lswda website for all to see.

Cheers
M

[TColt]

Well I posted on this thread last week about not being able to read the link posted about the bill... Needless to say, that post was deleted for some reason and then the new copy was posted here. I'm not only talking about updating on status, I'm talkin keeping people in the loop as in having other people and organizations help throw in some input as to what goes and doesn't go in the bill, who exactly needs to be called, seeing if other people can get other outside sources/ connections/ professional opinions. For example, I noticed that there is nothing in the newly revised bill about transportation of working dogs and if I remember correctly there was recently a post about someone getting a ticket for dogs being in a dog box. Another example- outside sources- a law school friend of mine who I'm introducing to hog dogging says that this bill is "only part of a bill" which will make it hard to pass, it's also strictly an "exemption bill" which will make it hard to Pass, he also stated that next session (since he is 100% sure it won't pass this session) we need to get quite a bit of money together for things like "a well known lobbyist" and "campaign contributions to the right people" and get "as many organization on board as possible" power in numbers basically.

Another thought I had, a suggestion to the mods, is two years from now during the next session y'all should put the laws and bills board at the top or the boards so when you click on forum it's the first thing you see. Myself, and I'm sure many others, log on and first thing we see is all the cool stuff. Then as the stories are read and the post are made I forget to look in this section. I just noticed that these threads don't get a whole lot of hits compared to the others and I think that might help.

Myself and everyone else appreciates lswd associations hard work and effort in working on this bill. Still have my fingers crossed that we can make it happen this year. But if not this year we can do it bigger and better two years from now and hopefully get it passed then.

[TColt]

Allatatrot- I tried to click on the link posted on here earlier and I can't read anything but user name and password, which I don't have since I'm not a member. So it's not "for all to see"

[TColt]

Another example of what I meant by out of the loop... I have not read or heard anything about people or organizations needing to testify for this bill other than this.

R. Elferez, LSWDA BOD and Rex Bumpus LSWDA BOD  is testifying.

I dont know how many LSWD is strong in numbers now, but power is in money and NUMBERS. There are many associations out there for working dogs besides LSWD and TDHA and we need as many of them to be on board as possible. Even agricultural associations where farmers have been effected by hog/yotes or whatever other animal/thing can be helped by dogs, cow/stock dog associations.

Here are a few working dog associations that would be great to have on our side, found them with a simple google search, and all it takes to see if they will "try" to get on board is a simple phone call...

Texas Hill Country Stock Dog Association-German Shepherd Dog Club of America-American Working Dog Association- North American Police Dog Association- Southwest Working Dog Association- International Working Dog Breeding Association- Texas Working Dog Association- East Texas Working Dog Association- North American Gun Dog Association

Im sure there is more than that, and then all working dog breed associations such as National Lacy Dog Association

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

As for the hsus bill, maybe I read your post wrong but it sounded like once you conversed with the author of 1451 you were working with them on that bill. Not sure if you still are working with them or not though.

M, I make it a habit to speak personally with every aid that is writing bills that will have a negative affect on dog hunters. I do this to explain to the person that is writing the bill "the aid" what the unintended consequences are of their bill and why we oppose it. The Reps and Senators don't write the bills their aids do. If you understand how the process works and can have an intelligent conversation with those aids, you can have an impact on the wording of the bill. I do this for all dog hunters not just TDHA members. HB 1451 was a really bad deal for some dog hunters. It could have been a lot worse (see original HB 2116) I spent long time on the phone with Thompson's aid who was writing the bill and then traded e-mails as well.

I have opposed 1451 from the start and still do, as you can see in every post I have made regarding 1451. We have got to work the law makers in Austin from both sides, working to make the bad bills better for us and also work to stop them in their tracks.

My support for 2833 has never wavered, but at times what I have seen posted about 2833 has been a little off the mark and I was confused as to what was going on and what the plan was. There was no real up to date information on the LSWDA site. I asked questions because I was concerned about the future of 2833. I never saw any mention of the problems in the bill and never saw any open discussion on what it would take to get this passed, and when the bill would have to pass each threshold to be viable. Hardcastles aid told me personally that the bill they received in committee could not go forward in its present form, I knew a committee substitute would be offered but no one released a copy of, or asked for input on language, untill the day of the committee meeting no one knew how it read. There were still some obvious problems with the bill that would keep it from getting out of committee. The person that wrote the committe substitute had to know that at the time. I hoped that my questions would be the insentive for a more public dialog regarding 2833 and how to make it a viably bill that could move forward quickly.

What is the status at this time?

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

M, here is my last post on 1451, the night it was taken up by the Senate Criminal Justice Committee. You may not have read it if you think I am pro 1451 

House Bill 1451 has been sent to the Senate Criminal Justice Committee.

THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO, AND CAN HAVE, AN IMPACT. WE NEED TO KILL THIS IN COMMITTEE.

As I write this tonight the "Puppy Mill Bill" does not have a Senate Bill number, I will update tomorrow. I am asking all on this board to stand up and speak with one voice, stand up and fight for what is right, send a message to those who are fighting to end hunting with dogs one bill at a time. Each one of you can have an impact IF you make these calls. It is easy. The people who answer the phones get these calls all day long. They will help you to make your point.

What do you need to do? Call each of the Committee members listed below. Be polite and to the point and say something to the effect, My name is......I am calling to voice my opposition to the "Puppy Mill Bill", I would like to request that the Senator vote no on this bill and kill it in Committee. This is a punitive bill that will negatively impact me personally and many others in the hunting and ranching business in Texas. Thank you for consideration.

They may ask you a question or two and that is all there is to it. If you have never called Austin before NOW IS THE TIME.

Post up if you stood up for the right of us all and made the calls. Numbers matter so get to the phones as soon as you can.

Thanks,
Paul Teegardin
TDHA President

[slimpickins]

I have been a big supported of 2833 from the start.

I just went through the first 5 pages of TDHA "courtroom section".
5 pages and only 1, YES 1 post about HB 2833, the live stream, and the only post added, by you, is not supportive.
I have not seen a single supportive post from anyone on TDHA site.
Those of you wanting to know what's up, go to LSWDA, spend a few minutes getting setup and start reading...... IT'S FREE.
I'm tired of hearing how LSWDA should be supportive of another organization and not getting a single bit of support out of that organization or the President of it.
That's a fact.
This is some junior high school S#!^!!

[aladatrot]

Paul, I must admit that I don't read every single post on here. I just remember when you were saying you were working with the author of 1451 to make that bill acceptable. I thought that odd since everything I was getting from rpoa and saova stated that no amount of amending could make 1451 safe. I guess it stuck there in my head because it looked like from my perspective that you were wishing 2833 to fail. Of course, you have clarified now that wasn't your intent, so it is a non issue.

Cheers
M

[Purebreedcolt]

Guys and gals yall need to put your  personal vendetas behind you and help get this passed.  Fighting amongst our selves is doing nothing good for our sport and dog hunters in general.  We are all working in the same direction to keep our sport alive. 

[Circle C]

Well I posted on this thread last week about not being able to read the link posted about the bill... Needless to say, that post was deleted for some reason and then the new copy was posted here. I'm not only talking about updating on status, I'm talkin keeping people in the loop as in having other people and organizations help throw in some input as to what goes and doesn't go in the bill, who exactly needs to be called, seeing if other people can get other outside sources/ connections/ professional opinions. For example, I noticed that there is nothing in the newly revised bill about transportation of working dogs and if I remember correctly there was recently a post about someone getting a ticket for dogs being in a dog box. Another example- outside sources- a law school friend of mine who I'm introducing to hog dogging says that this bill is "only part of a bill" which will make it hard to pass, it's also strictly an "exemption bill" which will make it hard to Pass, he also stated that next session (since he is 100% sure it won't pass this session) we need to get quite a bit of money together for things like "a well known lobbyist" and "campaign contributions to the right people" and get "as many organization on board as possible" power in numbers basically.

Another thought I had, a suggestion to the mods, is two years from now during the next session y'all should put the laws and bills board at the top or the boards so when you click on forum it's the first thing you see. Myself, and I'm sure many others, log on and first thing we see is all the cool stuff. Then as the stories are read and the post are made I forget to look in this section. I just noticed that these threads don't get a whole lot of hits compared to the others and I think that might help.

Myself and everyone else appreciates lswd associations hard work and effort in working on this bill. Still have my fingers crossed that we can make it happen this year. But if not this year we can do it bigger and better two years from now and hopefully get it passed then.

I'll do my best to keep this polite and as unbiased as I can....

TColt,
  You make some very good points about getting people and other organizations involved with HB2833.  In the beginning, Lance Falzone, the author of HB2833 tried to do just that. He was a member of both LSWDA and TDHA and contacted both looking for assistance and ideas. In addition to those two groups, there were several other groups contacted in the following fields. Search and Rescue, blood trailing, herding dogs, RPOA, coon hunting clubs, etc. Some organizations expressed an interest and had dialogue, others had there own items they were concentrating on, and basically stated that they were behind the bill, but could not devote the time needed to "push" the bill. Others that have been fighting along with LSWDA are Delta Waterfowl, Lone Star Bow Hunters, TOPs, US Sportsman's Aliiance, National Lacy Dog Association, Gonzales County Coon Hunters, Texas Black & Tan, Australian Sheperd Club of America,.... You can bet, that in the event HB2833 does not make it in this session, there will be a larger coalition of groups actively promoting this bill in the future.

   As for a "well known lobbyist", LSWDA has just that. You may not know him, and your law school student buddy may not know him, but Austin, Tx does know him, and they know him well. He's been at the Capitol since 1968.... and he has been busting his butt working on getting hb2833 pushed through. There have been some hiccups, and there was a rewrite that took up some time. It's the nature of the beast...  It's real easy to stand on the sidelines and throw stones, it's much more difficult to actually study and write a bill, get it sponsored, and through the house. I am just thankful that Lance took the initiative.

"TColt"
I have talked to several tdha members who don't know what's going on with the bill because they have been out of the loop. It's hard to keep up and help out when everything hits a private board that I'm not a member of.

 

 The easiest way to stay in the loop is to friend LSWDA on Facebook.  If you and your friends are anything like most of us, you check a couple of sites/forums on the web daily, and don't really have time to go to dozens of sites daily just to stay in the loop. Facebook seems to be the best tool for keeping people updated. Heck,  LSWDA and TDHA are even friends on Facebook  I don't have the facts to back this up, but I believe that there is more information posted on Fb these days than all of the message boards combined. I know that most hunts posted on ETHD on Monday morning, have been posted "real time" on FB during the weekends they occur.

Guys and gals yall need to put your  personal vendetas behind you and help get this passed.  Fighting amongst our selves is doing nothing good for our sport and dog hunters in general.  We are all working in the same direction to keep our sport alive. 

Purebreed,
    You are absolutely correct, and you are not the first to mention this.  Here is an excerpt from a pm sent to me by a member of ETHD back in March, who to my knowledge is not a member of TDHA or LSWDA....

I'm about fed up with the TDHA vs. LSDWA BS.  It's high time that personal differences are put aside for the common goal.  If they all want to bicker and argue about who did this, whose idea was this, or this ways better than that then it needs to be done at a later time, when current issues aren't in a time crunch.  Pauls post yesterday really struck me wrong, and I typed out two replys and deleted both without posting.  Enough is enough...

   There are some who just don't play well with others. I figured out a while back that I cannot get along with certain personalities, and as such, I no longer involve myself in their business, or post on their message board.

  Since it's inception LSWDA has maintained that it is not competing with TDHA, that they are two separate organizations with the same goal, just different ideas on how to achieve said goals. There has been a perceived competition from some, and as a result there has been a benefit to dog owners, and I have to give credit where it's due.  While I don't agree with how Paul T has handled HB2833, he has done a great job of informing the hunting public about various legislative items being proposed. He has done more on that front in this session than I have ever seen from TDHA before. I may not be a TDHA member, but as an owner of working dogs, I appreciate the effort he has put forth thus far. It has worked out well, as LSWDA has been a bit bogged down with HB2833 and the planning of its first annual AKC World Qualifier Coon Hunt, Dog Show, Weigh Pulling  and Herding dog demo/ instinct testing

   I have to agree with what others have already mentioned, it's time to move forward.

   I'll end this post with a quote that I have to remind myself of often.
        "You never get ahead, trying to get even"
   

[TColt]

I have been a big supported of 2833 from the start.

I just went through the first 5 pages of TDHA "courtroom section".
5 pages and only 1, YES 1 post about HB 2833, the live stream, and the only post added, by you, is not supportive.
I have not seen a single supportive post from anyone on TDHA site.
Those of you wanting to know what's up, go to LSWDA, spend a few minutes getting setup and start reading...... IT'S FREE.
I'm tired of hearing how LSWDA should be supportive of another organization and not getting a single bit of support out of that organization or the President of it.
That's a fact.
This is some junior high school S#!^!!

I think one way this could be solved is make the LSWD forum public... Why not? Is there secrete missions being planned or something? I am a member of more boards than I can count and I am able to keep up with 1 and 1/2 of them with my busy schedule. This one, and then sometimes I have time to get on tdha. I understand its free so on and so forth, but time is not.

I think this bill is the best idea since sliced bread. However, from the information I have gathered reading this board it seems that it was gone about all wrong... It honestly seems like LSWD was just in a hurry, which is understandable if the idea came in late. We just need to all get together and do it even better next time. Like I stated in one of my earlier posts. We need to get as many people and organizations on board as possible, including more hog doggers. The hits on these legislation threads are pathetic. We need to find another way to spread the word.

I dont think anyone is being non supportive of either group. I think everyone is frustrated since it was stated that "it doesnt look good". This is not the last time we are going to have a chance to pass a bill. So we need to start planning, for two years from now, right away. I promise you HSUS and PETA are!

[uglydog]

So you saying you have time to READ all of whats on ETHD and blame LSWDA for not posting all its plans and business where its easy for you to find, BUT you don't have time to register for a user name on LSWDA? Maybe you would like us to set up email notifications of everything that is being done?

Texas Hill Country Stock Dog Association-German Shepherd Dog Club of America-American Working Dog Association- North American Police Dog Association- Southwest Working Dog Association- International Working Dog Breeding Association- Texas Working Dog Association- East Texas Working Dog Association- North American Gun Dog Association

Im sure there is more than that, and then all working dog breed associations such as National Lacy Dog Association

Tcolt, that is a good idea why can you come on here and tell others what they should be doing but yet you don't do yourself? You said you are not a member of LSWDA, but yet you want to have an opinion about how it operates? You stated if this bill passes you will become amember? well thats kinda likesitting around to wait to see what the winning team is going to be before joining a team, instead of getting on board to help a team win is it not?

As far as those ssociations you mentioned, & Circle C mentioned ones that are on board with LSWDA, National Lacy Dog Association is one that has been with LSWDA since it was founded. You want to stick your neck out and point fingers, how many fingers are pointing back at you?
GUESS what I personally have conatcted ten times the number of association representatives, PLUS its on AKC, UKC, and many other VERY busy Forums, not just in the Hog Dog world. Many LSWDA members have been very busy working onthis HB 2833, We do make contacts.

IT was also mentioned you have to sign in LSWDA forum just as you do here on ETHD,

I'll end this post with a quote that I have to remind myself of often.
        "You never get ahead, trying to get even"
  

VERY WISE WORDS THERE! IF ONLY OTHERS would do so, rather than playing political games games as if they are up re-election themselves!

I think one way this could be solved is make the LSWD forum public... Why not? Is there secrete missions being planned or something? I am a member of more boards than I can count and I am able to keep up with 1 and 1/2 of them with my busy schedule. This one, and then sometimes I have time to get on tdha. I understand its free so on and so forth, but time is not.

Sounds like you have that conspiracy theory  of secret missions going on in your head I have heard from a few others that have been drinking that same Koolaid

[TColt]

I guess I need to get back on Facebook lol, I liked being out of the loop on all the BS from that site, but I guess I need it to get in the loop on the stuff that is important to me haha!

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

I agree Chris, I have no problem with LSWDA in any way. I am glad that it was formed to allow a more direct lobbying effort for dog hunters. I think that all dog hunters should be a member of TDHA, LSWDA and any other group they can find that is fighting for our rights.

I have supported HB 2833, TDHA has supported HB 2833, We will support anyone and any bill that helps dog hunters. I have asked some questions because I care about the outcome of this bill.

TDHA and LSWDA are not competing in any way. I understand the process in Austin very well and have some connections there that give me a little more in-site than most. Texas Politics is a rough and tumble affair where deals are made and rules are suspended at a whim. Time matters in Austin and there was no time to waste this session.

LSWDA does good work, as does TDHA, each has no real interest in the work of the other except when the Texas Legislature is in session. I still believe that there should be some official contact between the two groups during the legislative session so that each group can know what the other is working on and its status, and we can stop stepping on each others toes and avoid any misunderstandings.

Some good has come out of this thread I hope.

Thanks,
Paul T

[Circle C]

I think one way this could be solved is make the LSWD forum public... Why not? Is there secrete missions being planned or something? I am a member of more boards than I can count and I am able to keep up with 1 and 1/2 of them with my busy schedule. This one, and then sometimes I have time to get on tdha. I understand its free so on and so forth, but time is not.

TColt,
     I too like the idea of open forums, but I also understand the idea of having members groups to handle voting/financials/etc.   I am not sure if this is still the case, but TDHA has or had a members only forum for some time.  Now, I'll be the first to say that there could have been more posted on HB2833 on the LSWDA general board, I , along with other LSWDA members failed to keep it updated. However, as information came in, it was posted here on ETHD as well as on Facebook for all to see.

Here's a sincere question for you -    If you only have time to stay updated on ETHD and 1/2 time on TDHA, how would LSWDA being fully public help you to stay informed?    

As for the Facebook drama...  Sure, it's there. You just have to stay out of it. Somehow I have managed to keep my nose clean on FB thus far.   I honestly think it's the best tool to date for getting the word out to people. Especially busy people.

Some good has come out of this thread I hope.

I agree.

[TColt]

No conspiracy theory going on in my head, I was making a joke of why I dont see any reason the forum is not public lol, just a joke, and I dont drink koolaid  .

I have time to get on ETHD the most because it is what I enjoy to do in my free time that I spend on the computer, I am a TDHA member and I dont spend much time on there either, maybe log on once a week at the most. I dont think I ever stated that i would join LSWD if this bill passed. If it came accross that way, I did not mean that because I probably wont join LSWD to be completely honest.

I am a student athlete so I dont have a ton of time on my hands to be super active, when I do get that chance to have alot of time for myself, I spend it in the woods, not on the computer. I dont read everything on ETHD by any means, I wish I had that kind of time to sit around but I dont. I try to be active as I can and I can promise you I will be much more active in the future since I am probably done with school for good. I was simply throwing out ideas to help make this more successful next session. Take it as something negative or positive, thats up to you.

My main goal is going to be to get in touch and speak with bird hunter/bird hunting associations and get them on our side, because we all know that is where the money is and money helps with power, and these bills effect them also. I am meeting with some guys, who do some bird planting/ dog training at a ranch that I hunt, next fall, I am also planning on meeting with the owner of First Ranch (owns cutting stud Cat's Murada) where they also run cattle on 2600 acres and use working dogs to see what kind of strings he can pull and people he can connect us with.

Im also woking on getting some future layers into working dogs and showing them what its all about and explaining to them how certain bills effect us who have working dogs. Some of these layers will be living and working in Austin during next session and are already on board to help get something passed in our favor next session. Im not as inactive as you may think and Im probably the most active 22 year old on any of these forums.

Remember, "its not what you know, its who you know"

To be completely honest, since I got outside opinions about this bill I found it hopeless for this year, so have focused my time on making connections for the future and will continue to do so. If there is somthing specific that I can do please feel free to message me on here or call/text me at 817-694-5501