6/01- Bad Boar in the Shinnery

[geronimo]

time will tell mr. paul, this will be an intresting one to follow good luck and keep us posted on their progress, you may be on to something?

[TColt]

I have no doubt Paul is on to something. I really think this cross is going to be a good start to building a dog thats got it all. I'm looking forward to seeing a deangelo x adi also, those will be some well bred Dogos! Well built with alot of drive and bottom with the speed to go with it!

[txhogsanddogs]

I have no doubt Paul is on to something. I really think this cross is going to be a good start to building a dog thats got it all. I'm looking forward to seeing a deangelo x adi also, those will be some well bred Dogos! Well built with alot of drive and bottom with the speed to go with it!

TColt- get off the computer and get some sleep.  We have a early morning ahead! 

[Doggie]

I'm looking forward to seeing a deangelo x adi also, those will be some well bred Dogos! Well built with alot of drive and bottom with the speed to go with it!

  I am a little confused when speaking of a catchdog and using the word "bottom."  Do you mean "ass" or am I missing something?

[derbettis]

good pig sorry for the loss got a few buried in the back myself ,dogs that cant be replaced is the usuall

[TColt]

I'm looking forward to seeing a deangelo x adi also, those will be some well bred Dogos! Well built with alot of drive and bottom with the speed to go with it!

  I am a little confused when speaking of a catchdog and using the word "bottom."  Do you mean "ass" or am I missing something?

Sometimes people need a cd to have stamina (bottom), more than just twenty yrds to the bay.

[Scott]

Stamina (also known as wind) and bottom are two very different things.

[Cutter Bay Kennels]

Man I wish you would have backed Adora up to De'Angelo . . . . .   

Still waiting myself Paul.   

[Riley W]

nice cutters

[Gallo]

Heck of a hunt, sorry to hear about the dog.

[TColt]

Stamina (also known as wind) and bottom are two very different things.

I would think the two go hand and hand so they are the same to me. What do you consider bottom? I always have thought it was the ability to stick with a hog. If I'm right, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you can't have bottom without stamina.

[Doggie]

Stamina has a little to do with bottom but not everything!  Bottom in regaurds to the hog hunting world is the ability for a bay dog or "pig dog" to track stop and bay a rascally old hog for extended periods of time.  Usually, when someone speaks of a dog having bottom you are talking hours two, four, five, or how ever long it takes for that dog to track stop and hold the hog at bay for the hunter to arrive.  A catch dog engaged with a hog for two, four, five, or more hours simply is rediculous.  The difference in physical exertion from a catchdog caught on a hog and a bay dog standing back and barking are not compareable therefore bottom is not a term for catch dogs.  With that being said, I do highly agree that a catchdog should have stamina and, even more than stamina, should possess the ability to quickly regain its "wind" after a catch.  I prefer a catchdog that can run (is fast) has endurance (fast for long period of time or the ability to hold at full capacity for extended periods of time) strength and power (control the hog) and the ability to recover quickly after a catch.  In summary, no I do not feel that stamina and bottom are the same thing.  But, I am sure you will disagree with what I wrote I am sure I buggered it up a little but I was trying to have a go at explaining where I was coming from.

[TColt]

Agree and disagree, I agree with your statement about what bottom is, disagree that it can't be used for a cd. Maybe not to the same extent as a bay dog but I want a cd that can handle a hog for a long time. I have had my dog on hogs for an hour before. I don't make a habbit of it but he usually gets cut at first bark or even hunts on the ground. Sometimes he catches in a sounder and the bay dogs go with another pig and we go to them, or he will strike his own pig, ect ect. I want him to be able to be able to track, trail, stop, and hold a pig for a good amount of time just like a bay dog just a different style when he gets the pig to stop or gets to the bay lol.

[Bryant]

...Sometimes he catches in a sounder and the bay dogs go with another pig and we go to them...

If I'm following you correctly, you're saying that you'll simply leave your catchdog battling a hog to further pursue your baydogs?  I'm just curious why you do this.

[brandonb]

Sorry to hear about your buddies dog. You were lucky to have such a good dog to keep that big boy off of you. Good boar.

[TColt]

...Sometimes he catches in a sounder and the bay dogs go with another pig and we go to them...

If I'm following you correctly, you're saying that you'll simply leave your catchdog battling a hog to further pursue your baydogs?  I'm just curious why you do this.

Well I dont exactly keep my head in my garmin the whole time Im hunting so sometimes it happens since we are following the bay dogs. For instance, I was hunting down in south texas at a buddies ranch and the dogs bay up about three hundred yards away. I cut him lose and when he is about two hundred from the bay it breaks. The bay dogs roll about a mile and a half and we follow them. Heading into that bay with a lead in cd I check the garmin and soco is back close to where the first bay was. So we I had to go back to him and he had struck and caught on a good boar that the other dogs missed.

Another time, I was hunting my Lacy dog and Soco together on the ground. They rolled out across a count road onto a property I didnt have permission. Started calling them and then the garmin showed them treed 1.4 mi. By the time we got permission and got to them it had been a little over an hour that he had been caught on a boar about 175 lbs.

These are just a few examples I can come up with off the top of my head. Like I said, I DO NOT MAKE A HABBIT OF IT, but it happens. So please do not act like Im some dumb @$$. I wouldnt do this with a dog that didnt have the "bottom" to handle it. I also keep my dogs in extremely good condition, and have caught 27 hogs in 36 hours only hunting daylight with Soco and a few curs with txhogsanddogs, cur dogs so tired that they quit barkin and just circled hogs. This aint my first rodeo nor my dogs. I feel like a Cd can have and needs bottom, but to each his own.

[Bryant]

TColt,

First off, I don't believe my comments in any way implied that you were "some dumb@$$" or that this was "yours or your dogs first rodeo".  Just asking a simple question.  Heck, I've only been at this for a little over 19 years, but always anxious to learn something new.  Typically when I send any of my bulldogs to a bay (which all wear Garmin collars...your message indicates that yours do also) they are the only dog I'm watching on the screen.  Really has nothing to do with keeping my head in the Garmin throughout the hunt. 

You state that the bay broke when Soco was 200 yards out which would lead me to believe that you WERE watching the Garmin.  I just find it hard to believe that you left out following along with your cur dogs for a mile and a half (which would require the use of the GPS) but didn't realize that your catchdog was still behind.

Sorry if you took offense to my post, as my intent wasn't to be negative.

[TColt]

Since it is so hard to believe let me draw it out here. We were sitting at a T in the road at the ranch at a fence line, bottom part of the T to our right facing down the top part of the T (down the fence line). Sent soco off the rig, he ran down the the road and the hogs broke back towards us, so, I could actually see Soco when the bay broke as he was about to hit the woods off the road. We saw the hogs and curs cross the road to our right. Figured Soco would pick up the trail and be on them in a hurry so we started heading down that way. Once we got to the bay. We get a mile and a half down the road to another T and I check the garmin for the curs to make sure they didnt break another direction  and we didnt need to go a different way. (so following the curs could mean just following the road when you know which way the hogs and dogs are headed, not necessarily just watching the gps, especially when you know where the hole in the fence that the hogs are headed for is  which is what happened, the only hog we caught in that group is the one soco had hemmed up) I then realize that Soco is treed a few hundred yards from where the first bay was. I then go back to him and he is caught.

The thing I dont like about the internet is you cant tell peoples tone. Reading your post, the tone that it gave me was that you think Im an idiot and I send my catch dog in to hang off hogs for an hour while I go try and catch a different pig, but that is not the case. Like I said, when he does have to be on a pig for a long time its not on purpose and its not something I make a habit of. I trust him to handle big pigs pretty well so if we have two hogs caught we get the other one first in most cases.

You can bet your @$$ that when we hear him hit up or realize he is caught on the garmin, I am in there in a heartbeat, especially if he is by himself or the only cd, and 99.9% of the time will be the first one in there leggin that hog. I have huntin buddies tell me Im like the backup catch dog. On the other example I gave, we were on foot the whole way and I was a good 600 yrds in front of the two guys hunting with me by the time I got to him. There is no way I would push my dogs to do something that they cant do or something that I cant back them up.

My whole point to the was to say that the way I hunt, I feel like a cd needs "bottom". He needs to be able to run, jump, swim, and hold for a long time sometimes. Even though my cd is a runt for his breed, he can do all these things, and he would be very hard for me to replace. Once I get my dogo pup grown and going, if he is half as good as the runt I have right now (15 weeks old and already a better swimmer  ), my pack will be complete with three dogs and I dont think there will be much of anything that will get away from them except maybe a bear.

[Oly]

Sorry for the loss Paul, good you got the hog though. Adora under D'a sould make some pups to realy look at.

[trapper2]

tcolt, i've cowboyed most of my life and in that little circle stamina and bottom have always been one and the same when talking about horses so i know what you mean