Pit Bull History

[Easttex91]

I bet you could take a few of these dogs we're talking about and show against these gang bangers and take all their money. The ones I saw back in school werent even game dogs just mid size dogs with massive heads and little to no conditioning.

[redriverslim]

I've heard that Honeybunch story too.  Here's another one that will CRUSH THE DREAMS of of the pedigree warriors.  You know how some guys are married to a bloodline.  Example: Some don't like anything but Jeep dogs and think that Jeep is THE bloodline.  Jeep is actually double bred CUR.  Jeep's sire was Finley's BO (who quit against Vindicator).  Jeep's mother Honeybunch was out of Bullyson (who quit against Benny Bob).  So Jeep was actually the product of breeding a daughter of a cur . . . back to a cur.  Now these would be extreme examples because Bo and Honeybunch and Bullyson were all good producers, but technically if you get right down to it, both Bo and Bullyson were curs (depending on who you ask).  Not saying they were rank, but?  And let me make the point that I've seen and owned some awsome heavy Bullyson dogs, and Jeep himself went 3:40 min against Homer.  So the moral of the story is . . . NO DOG CAN READ IT'S PAPERS.  A smart dog man once told me, "Breed the best bitch on the yard to the best male on the yard, then go in the house and look at the papers and find out what you just did.  

        

[redriverslim]

James Crenshaw was from East Ellijay, GA.  He was the owner of Honeybunch (from irish Jerry), Ch. Jeep, Ch. Charlie (Jeep's brother), and later in the 90's, Crenshaws Ch. Gator.  He died several years back.  Look around and maybe you can find his book.  He wrote a book I beleive it was called MY LIFE AND TIMES W/ AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER if you are interested.     

[Amokabs]

I think you he did write a book, didnt he have a black dog that was decent? By the way, this is a fantastic thread. Thanks to all who have posted so much bulldog history. Wow! You can soak this up like a sponge

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Yeah I agree there. Peds are good for reference, and if you know your lines of dogs, they'll give you an idea of what the dog should be in theory, as certain lines of dogs have certain known traits, but if you really believe that every dog of that golden era is really bred the way it shows on good ol' Peds Online...you'd be sadly mistaken, lol. I enjoy all the stories about the truths behind these dogs. Hell, back in the day when bulldoggin' was legal, if I had a devastator that was out there winnin, I darn sure wouldn't be tellin everyone how the dog was bred. Kinda like givin away a good treasured recipe to just everyone, lol. Certain lines are known to cross well with eachother, that's been proven. Pre 1976 of course, lol. Or in Mexico. ;-p

I like to reference the peds for reasons stated above, as in doing so, I have been able to create a consistancy in my stock with traits that I like....but I also would NOT hesitate to breed honest bulldog x honest bulldog regardless of how they're bred if I think they'd produce well. I've done it before and certainly was nor disappointed.

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

I know some of the stories out there can be disputed, but here's some random links to some decent reads for those interested in some history.

http://www.sporting-dog.com/select-pages/jeepredboy.html

http://www.sporting-dog.com/select-pages/chinamanstory.html

http://www.sporting-dog.com/select-pages/indianbolio.html

http://www.sporting-dog.com/select-pages/eli.html

Decent Gallery of Photos:

http://www.gamedog.info/photos/

Plenty more but it'll take me some time to gather 'em.

[TexasHogDogs]

I've heard that Honeybunch story too.  Here's another one that will CRUSH THE DREAMS of of the pedigree warriors.  You know how some guys are married to a bloodline.  Example: Some don't like anything but Jeep dogs and think that Jeep is THE bloodline.  Jeep is actually double bred CUR.  Jeep's sire was Finley's BO (who quit against Vindicator).  Jeep's mother Honeybunch was out of Bullyson (who quit against Benny Bob).  So Jeep was actually the product of breeding a daughter of a cur . . . back to a cur.  Now these would be extreme examples because Bo and Honeybunch and Bullyson were all good producers, but technically if you get right down to it, both Bo and Bullyson were curs (depending on who you ask).  Not saying they were rank, but?  And let me make the point that I've seen and owned some awsome heavy Bullyson dogs, and Jeep himself went 3:40 min against Homer.  So the moral of the story is . . . NO DOG CAN READ IT'S PAPERS.  A smart dog man once told me, "Breed the best bitch on the yard to the best male on the yard, then go in the house and look at the papers and find out what you just did.  

        

Am a firm believer that when people start looking a how a dog is bred before they want to breed it is a big mistake !   What you should be doing is looking at the dogs and what they are and then later on worry about how it is bred.  Now when you get ready to make your family this way you start out with a clean gene pool of great dogs and are now combing all these great gene pools of proven dogs  instead of combing just a gene pool of unproven great bred dogs .  All this 25 times this and 60 times this really means noting if the dogs ain't worth their salt and even if they are worth their salt being this heavy bred you had better know how to get the good out of them when you do breed them .

I think a lot of lines of dogs go stale just because of this very reason !  The thing about it is this .  Once a man goes to far there is no  sure fire way to fix it .  Once it goes bad its just bad because you have stacked and pack so much of this one great great bred dogs offspring and  now chitty gene pool of unproven dogs in to these future dogs .  So in other words yes the paper now looks fantastic but reality  the gene pool is now a sewer littered with unproven great bred dogs .  Its these gene pools that make dogs not the papers !

To tightly great bred on unproven dogs is a recipe for disaster really its no different than breeding dogs that you don't even no how are bred  .

[TexasHogDogs]

When you sit here and you break all of this stuff down this is what it amount to in having great dogs.

Lets look at this with eyes wide open !
Earl Tudor, Colby, Don Mayfeild, Carver, Boudreax, Hall, Feely, Trahan, Maloney, Clouse, Hemphill, Wilder, Wallace, Stinson, Fonteno, Kinard, Ed Chrenshaw, J Crenshaw,  The ole White Bloodlines these are all men that are down in bulldog history the great great great breeders of all time and of course I have left many out.

Now you name me one thing all these old old men had in common !

THEY ALL RAISED AND BRED THEIR ON DOGS BUT AND NOW I SAY BUT THE KEY IS THEY USED THEIR ON DOGS !  WHEN THEY WERE IN THEIR PRIMES THEY USED THEIR ON DOGS THEY DID NOT BUY DOGS THEY DID NOT SELL DOGS THEY USED WHAT THEY BRED !

Now then.  Not all but some when did their dogs hit there decline so to speak ?

Once their dogging careers were over and they did what ?

They started to selling dogs and the dogs went commerical !  Now not all these men did this but the ones that did their great dogs declined and they declined as breeders because then it became about the almighty dollar!

Back in their prime when they were dogging do you think for one min they went out in the back yard and said hell Old Cowboy Boots here is off of So & So 45 times and Old Blondie Boots here is off of old So & So 66 times am going to make this breeding because I want the tightest bred So & So dogs in the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Do you think they done this ?

You have done lost your Got Damn mind if you think they did !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell no they went out there and they pulled the very best baddest male they owned off the chain and they went and they pulled the baddest of the bad females they owned both top performace dogs and guess what folks

they laid the pipe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was no 35 times this and 45 times this back in the days of the real doggers and breeders it was all about breeding to the dog and the female that was getting it done and getting it done right !

[WayOutWest]

Amokabs, James Crenshaw was a good friend and mentor for me. I run Bolio/Tonka stuff up until James gave me a pup off Blackjack. I now have stuff down from this gyp and am out of the other blood. His place in bulldog history is pretty secure. He was an exceptional conditioner. He would quit his job to condition his dog and find another when he was done. Yes he was from E. Elijay, sold his place to a Dallas Cowboy who was the worlds worst pot dealer. He gave all the credit to Colby for the good dogs he had. Said they all went back to Colby stuff.

[TexasHogDogs]

I will give you a prime example of this .  Mayfeilds Nigger one of the hardest bred Tudor dogs there was .  This is how a line goes stale in any kind of performace dogs hunting dogs bulldogs what ever in a hurry and I mean in a hurry .  This story was told to me by a old man and I do mean a good one yall .  He went to a mans house I know his name but will not put it on here that had all these Mayfield dogs like 30 35 dogs on the yard he said it was the pretty yard of dogs he had ever seen in his life .  Jet black dogs with yellow and red eyes just beautiful clones of Maysfeild Nigger and those black dogs .  Said he had never seen a prettier yard of dogs big black big boned well built just tanks  .  Well this guy bragged about how these dogs were bred Mayfeild this Mayfeild that showing papers and how they were bred . So when it was all over and said and done not one not one of those dogs made the grade not a single solitary one of those dogs  !  The old man said he could not believe his eyes.  Everyone of them were great bred dogs bred off of a few great bred dogs unproven untested dogs and in the end not a single dog was worth a red cent !

This is how pretty papers works in the end when its all on the line if the dog cant make his papers then you can just go to the toliet bowl and flushem down the drain !

[bob]

I agree with you on what you have said Texas hog dogs , but in defense of my self and Jorge , I bought the dog as a cd , was told how great the owner thought he was , but I wanted him to catch hogs , over time I've learnt his way and he has learnt mine , we have bonded and I have realized how special he is , until the comment a about old family reds being a washed up breed or something to that effect in a post a few months back I knew nothing about the blood in this dog , with that said who knows if the papers are correct , but from my research and looking Pics he sure fits the picture    Who knows.  But I cherished  Jorge before I knew what he was blood wise and now with research I'm going to keep what I like , I feel like I've tried to learn as much as I could , and ask as many questions as possible in my decision , what has been kept in the closet is still there and I can't help that , you people are great , thanks for all the help , story's ect.

[TexasHogDogs]

Hand Painted Potrait of the old bulldogs back in the late 1700's.  This was sent to me by a ole family breeder from Europe many years ago .  We were all looking for the link to the Blu Phal fighting dogs .  I had a pup born in one of my liters that was dang near identical in colors and build to some of them we all didn't know what we were looking at for a long time till this man figured.  The pup was very heavy line bred for  years on end and was a throw back to those dogs as well as we could all figure out.

 

One of my old Stud dogs and a good one .

[sanman]

Great thread!

[bob]

Some neat stuff there TExas hog dogs , and that is one nice looking dog , wow

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Hand Painted Potrait of the old bulldogs back in the late 1700's.  This was sent to me by a ole family breeder from Europe many years ago .  We were all looking for the link to the Blu Phal fighting dogs .  I had a pup born in one of my liters that was dang near identical in colors and build to some of them we all didn't know what we were looking at for a long time till this man figured.  The pup was very heavy line bred for  years on end and was a throw back to those dogs as well as we could all figure out.

 

One of my old Stud dogs and a good one .

Well hot damn that's that Ripper dog off ol' Thunder huh!? NICE!

[TexasHogDogs]

Thats him.  Sure was a good one .

[TexasHogDogs]

I got a ton of damn pic but boy it is a pain in the butt to get them on here got to take the phone cam and take a pic of the original and then send to photobucket then send to the board .  Pain pain pain.

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

I got a ton of damn pic but boy it is a pain in the butt to get them on here got to take the phone cam and take a pic of the original and then send to photobucket then send to the board .  Pain pain pain.

I'd love to see 'em too. Yeah I know, that's quite a process, lol

[WayOutWest]

Bob, don't believe for a minute that you need a full on game bred dog to have a good catch dog. As long as the man holding the lead is happy don't worry about the rest of the world. Brains is more important in a catch dog than dead game.

[bob]

You are exactly correct about the brains and that is my number one goal , all the traits I like Iike about Jorge , were to find such a animal , it just happens that he is what people call a game bred pit , but to me he's my pride and joy and my friend , I want a reg. female of the same blood line to try to achieve something as great or better as Jorge , I have a 50 dollar pit also , super dog all heart but does not hold a candle to Jorge  , I have very high hopes on my goals and there's not going to be no what ifs in this case  , I have found one and in the next few weeks will have purchased a reg  linebred female with the same blood to complament Jorge and achieve my goals , I'm so pumped , thanks everyone for all the knowledge , story's and input