Pit Bull History

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

You are exactly correct about the brains and that is my number one goal , all the traits I like Iike about Jorge , were to find such a animal , it just happens that he is what people call a game bred pit , but to me he's my pride and joy and my friend , I want a reg. female of the same blood line to try to achieve something as great or better as Jorge , I have a 50 dollar pit also , super dog all heart but does not hold a candle to Jorge  , I have very high hopes on my goals and there's not going to be no what ifs in this case  , I have found one and in the next few weeks will have purchased a reg  linebred female with the same blood to complament Jorge and achieve my goals , I'm so pumped , thanks everyone for all the knowledge , story's and input 

You'll definately have some real smart ones from that combo....super intelligent I bet!

[redriverslim]

Alot of hoghunters are unfamiliar with the unique qualities of "game bred" bulldogs and how those specific traits translate into what makes a good catchdog.  What a gamedog man would consider to be a well bred bulldog, in many instances DO NOT make good catchdogs.  There has been much talk on this thread about game bloodlines.  I owned gamedogs for 20 years (but haven't owned one in several years and don't have any use for one).   I have also been a hoghunter for several years.  I can tell you from experience that most super well bred gamedogs (and I'm talking about the ones out of the sure-nuff bad SOB's) DO NOT make good catchdogs in most cases.  Now let me emphasize "MOST CASES".  There are exceptions to the rule.

However, generally speaking . . a true gamedog would be too "fight crazy" to make a good catchdog.  They have been bred to fight . . . PERIOD.  They don't socialize with other dogs very well at all.  Some of them can be groomed from a very young age, and with a whole lot of socializing and a whole lot of luck, can turn out to be good catchdogs.  But most likley what you get is a dog that will catch a hog, and then when the hog is dead, he might let go and jump on the first baydog he sees because he's turned on and just wants to put his mouth on something.  Also, I've seen more times than not, a real game bred dog will want to "fight" a hog instead of hold a hog.  They have a tendancy to let go of one hold to get what they instinctively feel is a better hold (or better spot).  For instance, I've seen them let go of an ear, and shoot back to the stifle (that's the back ham).  Or I've seen them let go of an ear and go for a leg hold and SHAKE instead of hold.  Then you have to worry about can they get along with the baydogs on the back of a 4 wheeler?  If a baydog growls at them, most times its on.  Or what happens when the hog breaks the bay and runs and you've already turned the catchdog loose.  I've seen gamedogs run straight to the first dog they see and fight, because they couldn't see the hog.  When you break a gamedog off a hog, whether its a stuck hog or a tied hog, now you've got this crazy bulldog that's wanting to fight anything that moves and he's lunging at every baydog that gets close because gamedogs get "wound up" and don't know when to turn it on and turn it off.  In my opinion . . A true gamedog is more of a PROBLEM than a good catchdog.

What qualities make up a good catchdog?  It's real simple.  They first need to catch and hold on the ear and stay caught and have no quit.  But more important to me, they need to get along with the rest of the pack and not cause problems, and they need to have some brains too.  Most gamedogs are not real heavy on the brains department.  They have only two speeds and thats wide open or on the chain.  

Now I have seen some real gamebred dogs that made good catchdogs.  I contend that they are the exception . . Not the rule.  I would say this, if I am looking for a catchdog, I'm not seeking out a well bred gamedog as my first choice.  If the dog happens to be a gamebred dog, then that's OK.  Its just not what I would be looking for.  The old "watered down" bloodlines that have been discussed on this thread are actually better catchdogs in most cases.  I saw a thread a while back where someone posted a picture of GR CH MACHOBUCK and people were replying saying . . "thats what I want, a dog like that".  Well actually, if you're hunting hogs you probably DONT want that.  You may thing you do, but you're probably gonna have problems.  The best catchdogs I've seen were a blend of just scatter bred (non-game) bulldogs with a splash of game blood thrown in the mix.  It seems when they are bred like this, they still have some brains and can be socialized, but that little shot of gameblood gives them that extra "KICK" with added heart and NO QUIT attitude.  Also, most true game blooded dogs are small (in hog hunter terms).  A 55 lb gamedog would be at the very top end of the spectrum and would be difficult to even find a match for.  Most gamedogs will weigh somewhere from the mid 30's to the mid 40's.  To me, a good 55 to 65 lb dog that's athletic is perfect for hogs.  This size dog can handle any hog in the woods, cause he has the body mass to handle the big ones.  Its just a personal preference, but I don't want a 40 lb catchdog.  A friend of mine had a 34 lb gamebred bitch.  She was awsome to see catch a hog, but a big hog could run and spin with her hanging on like an earring.  She would eventually get the hog stopped, but to me it just seemed like she was overmatched all the time due to her small size.

I would say if you have a bulldog that catches good and it gets along with the other dogs, then that is what makes a good catchdog.  Breeding a bunch of fighting blood into it just so you can have some famous bulldogs in the pedigree aint gonna make it catch hogs better.  Most any bulldog that will play tug-o-war with a towell or work a spring pole or hide, can be taught to catch hogs with a little encouragement.  I have a 14 week old puppy right now that's catching litte baby pigs and having a blast.  She will make a good catchdog, and she has NO GAME BLOOD so she'll most likley get along with everything else.  It just seems to me, that when you're staring out with something that has been bred to fight, you're staring out in the hole, cause now you've got a whole other problem you've got to worry about surfacing down the road.  Remember this . . if a dog has been bred to fight and that's his first instinct, its harder to break him from wanting to fight than you may think it is.  On the other hand, its pretty easy to get any old scatter bred bulldog to catch a hog.

Just an opinion                            

[txsteve85]

Alot of hoghunters are unfamiliar with the unique qualities of "game bred" bulldogs and how those specific traits translate into what makes a good catchdog.  What a gamedog man would consider to be a well bred bulldog, in many instances DO NOT make good catchdogs.  There has been much talk on this thread about game bloodlines.  I owned gamedogs for 20 years (but haven't owned one in several years and don't have any use for one).   I have also been a hoghunter for several years.  I can tell you from experience that most super well bred gamedogs (and I'm talking about the ones out of the sure-nuff bad SOB's) DO NOT make good catchdogs in most cases.  Now let me emphasize "MOST CASES".  There are exceptions to the rule.

However, generally speaking . . a true gamedog would be too "fight crazy" to make a good catchdog.  They have been bred to fight . . . PERIOD.  They don't socialize with other dogs very well at all.  Some of them can be groomed from a very young age, and with a whole lot of socializing and a whole lot of luck, can turn out to be good catchdogs.  But most likley what you get is a dog that will catch a hog, and then when the hog is dead, he might let go and jump on the first baydog he sees because he's turned on and just wants to put his mouth on something.  Also, I've seen more times than not, a real game bred dog will want to "fight" a hog instead of hold a hog.  They have a tendancy to let go of one hold to get what they instinctively feel is a better hold (or better spot).  For instance, I've seen them let go of an ear, and shoot back to the stifle (that's the back ham).  Or I've seen them let go of an ear and go for a leg hold and SHAKE instead of hold.  Then you have to worry about can they get along with the baydogs on the back of a 4 wheeler?  If a baydog growls at them, most times its on.  Or what happens when the hog breaks the bay and runs and you've already turned the catchdog loose.  I've seen gamedogs run straight to the first dog they see and fight, because they couldn't see the hog.  When you break a gamedog off a hog, whether its a stuck hog or a tied hog, now you've got this crazy bulldog that's wanting to fight anything that moves and he's lunging at every baydog that gets close because gamedogs get "wound up" and don't know when to turn it on and turn it off.  In my opinion . . A true gamedog is more of a PROBLEM than a good catchdog.

What qualities make up a good catchdog?  It's real simple.  They first need to catch and hold on the ear and stay caught and have no quit.  But more important to me, they need to get along with the rest of the pack and not cause problems, and they need to have some brains too.  Most gamedogs are not real heavy on the brains department.  They have only two speeds and thats wide open or on the chain. 

Now I have seen some real gamebred dogs that made good catchdogs.  I contend that they are the exception . . Not the rule.  I would say this, if I am looking for a catchdog, I'm not seeking out a well bred gamedog as my first choice.  If the dog happens to be a gamebred dog, then that's OK.  Its just not what I would be looking for.  The old "watered down" bloodlines that have been discussed on this thread are actually better catchdogs in most cases.  I saw a thread a while back where someone posted a picture of GR CH MACHOBUCK and people were replying saying . . "thats what I want, a dog like that".  Well actually, if you're hunting hogs you probably DONT want that.  You may thing you do, but you're probably gonna have problems.  The best catchdogs I've seen were a blend of just scatter bred (non-game) bulldogs with a splash of game blood thrown in the mix.  It seems when they are bred like this, they still have some brains and can be socialized, but that little shot of gameblood gives them that extra "KICK" with added heart and NO QUIT attitude.  Also, most true game blooded dogs are small (in hog hunter terms).  A 55 lb gamedog would be at the very top end of the spectrum and would be difficult to even find a match for.  Most gamedogs will weigh somewhere from the mid 30's to the mid 40's.  To me, a good 55 to 65 lb dog that's athletic is perfect for hogs.  This size dog can handle any hog in the woods, cause he has the body mass to handle the big ones.  Its just a personal preference, but I don't want a 40 lb catchdog.  A friend of mine had a 34 lb gamebred bitch.  She was awsome to see catch a hog, but a big hog could run and spin with her hanging on like an earring.  She would eventually get the hog stopped, but to me it just seemed like she was overmatched all the time due to her small size.

I would say if you have a bulldog that catches good and it gets along with the other dogs, then that is what makes a good catchdog.  Breeding a bunch of fighting blood into it just so you can have some famous bulldogs in the pedigree aint gonna make it catch hogs better.  Most any bulldog that will play tug-o-war with a towell or work a spring pole or hide, can be taught to catch hogs with a little encouragement.  I have a 14 week old puppy right now that's catching litte baby pigs and having a blast.  She will make a good catchdog, and she has NO GAME BLOOD so she'll most likley get along with everything else.  It just seems to me, that when you're staring out with something that has been bred to fight, you're staring out in the hole, cause now you've got a whole other problem you've got to worry about surfacing down the road.  Remember this . . if a dog has been bred to fight and that's his first instinct, its harder to break him from wanting to fight than you may think it is.  On the other hand, its pretty easy to get any old scatter bred bulldog to catch a hog.

Just an opinion                             

Good post ...agree with a lot you said there..
First time I put my little "game" pit in pen she didn't do anything so we stuck her in trailer where she had to fight.
Put my buddies patterdale in there to show her what to do and get her excited cut her loose and she latched onto the patterdale lol. Her temperament is excellent. Don't know if I got lucky or what but she beats carrying a 80lb bulldog around.

[Reuben]

redriverslim...you made some excellent points...only thing now is that the further we breed away from the fighting dogs the harder it is to get a great catch dog...the last 2 pups I raised were beautiful well musled good looking dogs of about 70 pounds and I culled both...back in the 1980's and 1990's most back yard bulldogs made catch dogs so it seemed to me...my personal theory is that more of those were closer bred to the game dogs...

[WayOutWest]

Slim, you are very correct on this "game dog catch dog" thang. I have been bringing game bred dogs down for several years and they catch hogs but not on the ear and it's a pain. I have had very little dog trouble with them but I have a pretty good handle that way. That being said I'm getting a pup from catchdog lines. Both the males I have brought down are from Blackjack/Gator blood and go over 50# chainwt.

[TexasHogDogs]

I think if you can get the right combination of game dog blood in a dog it would work really well .  You just have to breed some of the heat out of those real game dogs to do it .  If you can find that click with another ole laid back bulldog you might just hit the jack pot .

[redriverslim]

Totally agree.  Hardcore Hogand Dogs (the video series)  has a white dog that is a catching machine on the videos.  I think his name is Patch maybe?  anyway, that dog is either off BlackJack or down from that stuff.  True gamebred dog, doing it and getting along with other dogs, so there is one instance that kinda blows my theory out of the water.  LOL   

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

Totally agree.  Hardcore Hogand Dogs (the video series)  has a white dog that is a catching machine on the videos.  I think his name is Patch maybe?  anyway, that dog is either off BlackJack or down from that stuff.  True gamebred dog, doing it and getting along with other dogs, so there is one instance that kinda blows my theory out of the water.  LOL   

^ You are correct.

We have a couple here that would blow your theory out the water too

[TexasHogDogs]

I got a couple coming pups from old old bloodlines this year and am sure gonna try and work with it and make some really really nice catch dogs .  I had a little dog here 7 - 8 years ago what was almost straight Shory bred called him Cannon Ball he was 45 lbs of hog catching machine .  He was raised from a pup with all my dogs got his butt kicked a few times by me when he was young for acting up and I never let it get started are give him the chance and he was great.     

[Reuben]

I got a couple coming pups from old old bloodlines this year and am sure gonna try and work with it and make some really really nice catch dogs .  I had a little dog here 7 - 8 years ago what was almost straight Shory bred called him Cannon Ball he was 45 lbs of hog catching machine .  He was raised from a pup with all my dogs got his butt kicked a few times by me when he was young for acting up and I never let it get started are give him the chance and he was great.     

x2...I had one red red nose about 20 years ago that was one heck of a catch dog...he was raised with my dogs but he and the lead strike dog never saw eye to eye...

he was well socialized and broke off cows through lots of exposure...but one day a buddy of mine was trying out a pack of dogs and I had a good handle on my catch dog...I turned him out to empty out before I loaded him on the wheeler...those dogs bayed a cow and he flew down there and caught that cow...no amount of shock therapy could break him off of cows after that...

[bob]

I've soaked up everything that's been said , I guess I have a exception to the rule also , and like I said I had no idea he was bred the way he was , it has given me a new respect for him for sure , I can understand a gamey pit , I have had that problem once , he just went stupid. I might say , I'm very aware of what might happen when I linebreed Jorge back and I appreciate all the input because I'm doing my best to learn as much as I can , for me this has been months or reading and surfing , I've sold a top notch bay dog to purchase a female pit of the same blood , I will let everyone know of the progress we make , the trips and falls ect. I will be straight up and tell the truth , if it goes bad for me I will let you guys know and listen to I told you so , I'm trying to preserve what I have in Jorge , the game blood is just on paper and is just a bonus , I will bond with my new dog like no other , it will walk around my yard with no problems , it will not be dog or people  aggressive and will hit and hold a hog like no other  in Jesus name , we are standing on this and it will come to pass , but like I said I will be honest in letting y'all know the ride , it's gonna take a bit , but anything worth having never comes easy or without work , you guys are awesome

[redriverslim]

I got a couple coming pups from old old bloodlines this year and am sure gonna try and work with it and make some really really nice catch dogs .  I had a little dog here 7 - 8 years ago what was almost straight Shory bred called him Cannon Ball he was 45 lbs of hog catching machine .  He was raised from a pup with all my dogs got his butt kicked a few times by me when he was young for acting up and I never let it get started are give him the chance and he was great.     

Who was Cannonball's Sire?

[TexasHogDogs]

A dog named Screw that I owned he was a double bred grandson of Ch Shory .

[redriverslim]

I had the "Shortyson" dog out of Mississippi Hot's Rock Steady.

[TexasHogDogs]

Yall might enjoy looking at old dogs of the past and you better believe some great great dogs .  Bulldog History history history !


My ole George dog off of Hootens Pistol x Miss Bolaro


My ole Ripper dogs liter brother .


Ole bitch of mine off of Holts Jermiah who was off of Bullyson.


Ch Bandit off my old Buster dog who was straight Midnite Cowboy - Bullyson  His mother was my Sambella bitch who was off of Cates Cujo x Rosebud who was a liter sister to Black Widow


My Ripper dog off of Thunder Match x Scarlet ------ Thunder was off of Cujo and Scarlet was off of Lionhead x Ada .......Ripper being bred to the last living daughter of the Great Hammonds Pig .


The Holts Jermiah bitch of mine .


My old Jag dog off of Berrys Coley who was pure Ch Alligator bred .


My old Peevo dog off of Holidays Desperado "Boomrang" bred  x a direct daughter of Lonzo's Vindicator who was Gr Ch Zebo liter brother .


My old Jody bitch off of Mosleys Smeller straight Woods Snooty  x a pure Carvers Stompanto bitch .


A dog named Kaizer a old Bullyson type bred dog.


My old Girlfriend bitch she was straight Boomrang Pistol Pete bred and a hell of a dog .


My old Lazy bitch she was straight Bullyson on the top and straight off of a daughter of Andersons Red Barron . A great ole gyp dog of mine.


The man my old Rooster dog .  He was three times off of Gr Ch Hudo who was off of Carvers NightTrain a straight  Eli jr/ Bullyson bred and bred to a Ray Long gyp I think cant remember have to look the Tuffy bitch .
Great great dog ole Rooster.



 Bugar a straight Ch Shory bred dog .



The best dog to ever look threw a collar my old Breuax dog . Off of Nigger Toby x my old Gr Ch Hannah gyp .


and we could go on for days on end here .

[txsteve85]

THD's thanks for posting great pics!

[Reuben]

man...I like that Breaux dog...about a quarter of that over a gritty hard hunting mtn cur... 

them other dogs look good too...

[TexasHogDogs]

The one up there first was was ch bandit .

This is my Ripper dog being bred to the last living daughter of the great Hammonds Pig .


My old Lexus , a daughter of Cujo and a great old gyp .


Ole Pig a straight Ch Shorty bred dog of mine .


Back in the 70's a pure Ch Stomper bred pup .


The old Jermiah bitch


My old Crystal bitch who was the last living daughter of Houses Gr Ch Joker and she was the mother to my old Bruiser dog great great old gyp.  This is way back there now long time ago .


Black one of my old pure Bullyson bitches way back she was as black as midnight gums everything great great old gyp .

[MrsLouisianaHogDog]

THD: I enjoyed each and EVERY one of them pics!!!!!! Thanks for takin the time to share all of them! BOY that Rooster dog of yours....we got a male here that is damn near a TWIN to that dog!!! Long bodied and all.....
Name is "Brick"

[TexasHogDogs]

Good looking little dog for sure I like them red dogs with black mask.  Nice.

I got a bunch of old time pics put up I went up to Okla one time and got a bunch of pics of some old Earl Tudor dogs off a mans yard  LOL that is well well known  that had all them dogs with Mr Tudor .  I will have to dig them up sometimes aint had them out in 25 yrs .