Pit Bull History

[BigFool]

Joe Black threw some very nice dogs still know a lot that have them.  I bet those dogs that were black dogs and then threw a red here and there were Eli type of dogs.   We use to see that when breeding straight black Eli type of dogs and the  black blooded dogs.  A lot of the old time Eli breeders waited for it to happen then they would keep the Red dog and use as a stud type of dog and use him as a back cross for the black dogs  .  We all narrowed it down to that the Red dogs gene pool was a throwback and went straight back to the Dibo gene pool itself .  Those Red dogs would make some very good producers for the people that knew .

Heard from numerous people that there were a lot of controversy around this particular subject. Not saying one thing or another, and not trying or implying any of that. It just created alot of arguments in the past amongst old timers. This has been a great read thanks guys.

[Reuben]

Joe Black threw some very nice dogs still know a lot that have them.  I bet those dogs that were black dogs and then threw a red here and there were Eli type of dogs.   We use to see that when breeding straight black Eli type of dogs and the  black blooded dogs.  A lot of the old time Eli breeders waited for it to happen then they would keep the Red dog and use as a stud type of dog and use him as a back cross for the black dogs  .  We all narrowed it down to that the Red dogs gene pool was a throwback and went straight back to the Dibo gene pool itself .  Those Red dogs would make some very good producers for the people that knew .

Heard from numerous people that there were a lot of controversy around this particular subject. Not saying one thing or another, and not trying or implying any of that. It just created alot of arguments in the past amongst old timers. This has been a great read thanks guys.

Two red dogs should not be able to produce black dogs but two black dogs can produce red dogs...

[TexasHogDogs]

Correct Rueben , it was the solid black lines when Black x Black were bred that would throw the Red dog here and there.  When the black lines had been kept straight black for years on end.

Bigfoot you are 100% right .  It cause a ton of conterversy between a lots of the old timers.

Also when the black blood had been bred for years on end as straight as you could get it.  A Red dog would pop out now that was one thing but there was  another thing.   These black dogs and black blood that was being bred were of the highest caliber and very very heavy family bred dogs and with being that heavy bred most of the dogs would run in weight from 30 to maybe 45 lbs . Here is the head scratcher!  When the Red dog did pop up most of the time he was a monster of a dog and was like a 65, 70 lbs dog and sometimes bigger ,  that one I myself and others have never figured out till this day.

Its a amazing thing to have been able to have sit there and watch all this develop over years and years of breeding these dogs and not just myself doing this but a lot of us were close friends and I not only got to see it in my dogs that I was breeding but theirs and they got to see it in mine,  This is not hear say but facts seen in the flesh .

[TexasHogDogs]

BigFool not BigFoot sorry hit the wrong key LOL

[TexasHogDogs]

Some more breeding history of Pit Bulls and Ole Time breeders.  Once again I don't want anybody to think am telling them how to breed their dogs but these are just some of the experinces I had .  You do what you want and see fit with your dogs .

At one time it was believed that you could take a family of these dogs and linebreed and inbreed these familes  so hard and so much that there would come a point that the blood would reverse itself and that the dogs that were in the back of the peds would come to the front again and you could reproduce some of the main dogs in the back of the pedigree by having them back there so many times.

I don't know but I suspect this is why many people that have their on lines of dogs say man I got old so and so in the back of this ped 150 times himself .  I would suspect they are trying to reproduce this male are one in there like him close by.  Does it work yeah it can I would say and it had been done to some extent .

The thing is people figured out pretty fast that were breeding and useing high performace dogs it just was not worth all the trouble .  One of the main things in this was you had to wade threw all the chit dogs because again once you get so far into a bloodline it goes stale .    Here's the kicker .  It was also believed that at one time once you got to the stale part of the family in the line and inbreeding so much that you had to go another gen are two to actually get the bloodline to reverse itself .  In other words once you got to the line and inbreeding breaking point in your family of dogs and the dogs were already stale you had to go one more gen are two before you could reach the point that the blood would reverse itself back to the dog you was trying to deplucate . 

I myself tried this but once I got to the point that my dogs were at their breaking point are more I just could not make myself go any further.  I was wading threw so much bad dogs to me it just was not worth the trouble .  When I say bad dogs I don't mean dogs that did not want to hunt what I mean is dogs that did not have the tools to do what they wanted to do because of the heavy heavy line and inbreeding took it away from them.  I also don't really know if anybody ever made it to the end of the deal are not I just don't think so .

By doing this we learned hard lessons along the way.  We seen all the changes of the dogs along the way.  We learned that inbred dogs and heavy heavy heavy line bred dogs just cannot do the things a good cross could do like dogs of  half and half breedings , dogs that were 5/8's pure with 3/8's outcross in them,  half bro x half sister,  3/4 family dogs 1/4 cross .    This all goes back to once you get to your familys breaking point its almost useless and sensless to go any futher with out putting some type of cross blood in there that you know will work.

You have to look at each breeding you make as a tool .  What can this tool do for me .

Some of yall are going to say well that's like trying to breed for a throwback dog in the pedigree .  You know what you could not be more correct !  This is why we found out its just better to breed your great dogs and your great family of dogs and not worry about the throwback dog because he is only gonna come when mother nature wants him to come and there is not one damn thing you are going to do are me that is going to make it come any faster.  This was a hard lesson learned threw many old time dogmen and great dog breeders.

Hell man it takes years and years of breeding to get to these points .  I myself just been messing with breeding these cur dogs for 10/12 years that's just the baby stages .  I have hunted hogs a lot longer than that but just never messed with breeding the dogs for it .

[COA]

That first red dog we got is a monster! 73lbs & not fat by any measure. Now that my memory keeps comin back , it was 2 of his black littermates bred together to create another red. Then he was bred to a aunt of his to create a lil all red that looks just like the foundation bitch. The 73# monster has never been bred. Got plans to do that now that I hunt these dogs. Doglife got put on the back burner when goin thru divorce.

[GetTheBreakStick]

I read this post daily... So much history such a storied breed. I will forever own them..