Brood dogs VS Hunting dogs

[crackerc]

I have a young guy I hunt with looking for a cur pup or young dog. He got a Monkey x JJ pup from me last year and we got him wrecked his first trip to the woods. It hasn't slowed him down any, and now the young guy is looking for something to hunt with him.

I don't have any pups, so he asked me to keep my eyes open for a dog I thought may work for him and the way we hunt.

I came across an ad somewhere that said the guy had cur dogs and had been breeding them for like 30 years. Said they were gritty , good noses, hunted out good, etc. Just about the kind of dog I like.

Well I called the guy, and he said he had a young dog about 8 months old he would sell for $300. Said the dog had not been messed with but he would guarantee the dog to bark at a hog his first time. The guy said he also had some little pups and they were $400/each and he would not sell any females....ever.
Come to find out he had FOUR litters on the ground at one time.

Now I am no rocket scientist but if he keeps every female pup he raises, seems like he would get dog poor pretty quick at that rate.....

I started asking questions about the pups parents and how they hunted. He said he didn't hunt his "brood dogs". He said he bred them at a young age and never hunted them , as he didn't want them to catch any "diseases" from the hogs and have that get into his dogs bloodlines........this was getting stranger and stranger....

I asked him how he knew the pups would be good , if he didn't hunt the paerntsand he told me he knew the father to the pups could find a hog and had a good nose as he had him in the woods THREE times, on a LEASH, and walked him through the woods and every time they jumped a hog, and he just knows the male dog, on a leash, led him to that hog....but the dog has never been free cast or bayed a hog...ever...and he was breeding him based off this.

Needless to say I didn't recommend getting one of those pups.....

So, what do you guys think about "brood" dogs? I have always hunted my dogs , found out what they can do in the woods, find out their faults (they all have them if you look hard enough) and try to breed to a dog that compliments the dog you are breeding. But I want BOTH parents to be good dogs in the woods.

The only "brood" dog I have on my place is my JJ female who broke her jaw last summer and the vet said don't hunt her. And I hunted her for 5 years before that, she wasn't just a "brood" female.

How many of you guys keep just "brood" dogs that you have never hunted?

[stoked]

any dog on my property that im feeding and taking the time to water is fixin' to get hunted.

if they can't hunt, they will make a good pet for somebody else.

shoot, right now, it's too hot to throw a rock at a hog though.

[sfboarbuster]

I feel bad for anyone dumb enough to buy a dog from that guy

[DIAMOND A KENNELS]

IF aint proven i dont breed it! if i cant use it i dont keep it.. it gets culled NOT given away or sold but culled. i cant stand when people breed un proven dogs just for the money. not 2 say a good dog cant come from some un proven stock or that a sorry dog cant come from a good proven line.

[crackerc]

Just nothing the guy said made sense to me. Just makes me wonder how many pups he does sell??

sfboarbuster, how far north are you headed?

stoked, I am with you. I haven't been throwing any rocks (or hunting...) in a couple of months. Just been too hot for me to go. My last hunt was when I went up and hunted with Noah.

I have a hunting buddy that just got a new 2,000 acre place to hunt and he is asking me every day when I am coming down. Said the place has never been dog hunted and has plenty of hogs.

Makes it hard to resist, even as hot as it is. I may have to ride down and check the place out, but I know if I do, I am going to take a dog or two...........so I have been trying to postpone it until it cools off just a little!!

[raider54]

Ive had lots of good females, just not many of them good enough to breed. If it aint a huntin dog it shouldnt be a brood dog either! just my 2$

[stoked]

Just nothing the guy said made sense to me. Just makes me wonder how many pups he does sell??

sfboarbuster, how far north are you headed?

stoked, I am with you. I haven't been throwing any rocks (or hunting...) in a couple of months. Just been too hot for me to go. My last hunt was when I went up and hunted with Noah.

I have a hunting buddy that just got a new 2,000 acre place to hunt and he is asking me every day when I am coming down. Said the place has never been dog hunted and has plenty of hogs.

Makes it hard to resist, even as hot as it is. I may have to ride down and check the place out, but I know if I do, I am going to take a dog or two...........so I have been trying to postpone it until it cools off just a little!!

ive been holding off. it's just way too hot!

ive had a couple of people call me lately talking about they were looking at some hogs to bring my dogs and i just couldn't do it. as much as i wanted to, i just couldn't get my dogs out in that heat.

[red79]

you should breed the best to the best.

[crackerc]

And I know enough to know I shouldn't hunt either. I hunted most of last summer, up until I got JJ and Monkey wrecked a week apart and it was hot! But I think this summer is hotter than last. I just haven't been able to convince myself I need to hunt in this heat.

This buddy wanting me to come down,isn't hunting dogs so is wanting me to bring mine. I just worry if i don't go soon, he will bring someone else with dogs in the place and teach the hogs bad habits!!!

I tried to get Noah to come down but he had plans. He is young and his dogs have been hunted all summer so they can stand the heat a little better than my fat dogs can. But its STILL hot....

[red79]

i hunt 3 times a week most of the time and still havent had any problems yet with the heat you just have to watch your dogs and try and stay around water.

[BobbyB]

Said it before, but since I am just getting started with hog dogs, all my experience is bird dogs, but they have to be the same.

Both dogs better show me what I want to see in the field. Then when they turn 2, I have their hips checked and if they pass and all else is healthy with them, I will breed.

If you dont prove them, how do you know what you will get??? If they are not physically sound, how do you know you wont wind up with a bunch of junk?

[stoked]

IF aint proven i dont breed it! if i cant use it i dont keep it.. it gets culled NOT given away or sold but culled. i cant stand when people breed un proven dogs just for the money.

i cull a lot of dogs myself. i just can't understand why people will sit there and feed 3-4 dogs and keep em around if they're not doing anything for em.

my buddy has a 3 legged dog, a dog that's about 100 yrs old, and dog with a broke leg, and the list goes on...

i give him hell about it. crap, that's a 50# bag of sportmix every two weeks. let some old lady have the 3 legged dog or the dog with the broke leg!

my other buddy has some dogs that he calls "yard dogs" they only look good and he won't hunt them. weimeraners..

i said....son, get you something you can hunt with my dogs... your feeding dogs that don't do anything for ya...

[cward]

Stoked I call them YARD ORNAMENTS!!!!    THey have to prove themselfs...I did breed to a gyp one time that was a verywell bread gyp that went back to the line all my dogs went back to she got hit by a car when she was a pup and the give her to his mother for a yard dog!!All five pups were some of the best you ever saw!! But I new gentics were there!!!

[txmaverick]

If I raise a gye I know I want to breed then I get her working, finding her own hogs, then when I am ready to breed (as long as she is what I like) I dont hunt her any more. I only keep one breeding bitch at a time from each of my 2 bloodlines.

I do continue to work them but not as an active hunting dog.

To say an unproven dog can not throw good pups is wrong, some breeding dogs prove through thier off spring. I have seen many dogs that never hunted anything throw great dogs.

I know the risk is greater of getting a worthless litter from unproven dogs, but to stamp all as bad is not true.

There is a man that lives up the road from me that has a great line of dogs that many in this area hunt. Non of his foundation stock ever hunted anything; but still he raises some great dogs that hunt hogs and cats.

The guy this thread started about is just a puppy mill and nothing more. That is where unproven breeding is 100% true.

I have said it before several times and I am sure I will say it many times over.....................training, training, training..........the best bred dog is worthless with out the training and the proper handling, granted the bloodline does make it easier and at the same time the worst bred dog with the right training and handling can make a great dog, granted lack of bloodline may make it harder.

Not trying to start anything, but I think to many times some good dogs can be over looked just because they arent "bred for it". If we say all unproven breedings are bad then how did we get to where we are today? It all had to start somewhere.

All that being said, I wouldnt breed either my my lines back to most of the dogs I see hunt today. Not that mine are any better but I do have a long range plan that most dogs just dont fit into. It may just be that the dog doesnt fit what I want in color, size or tempermant (not that they arent a good hunting dog).

I do believe after this many years of breeding hog dogs that working a bitch while she is caring the litter will produce pups that work sooner and a higher % of the litter making outstanding dogs. Imprinting in all animals is a proven fact as well as with humans.

Just my 2 cents.............now I am broke.........anyone float me a loan?

[jeffeasttx]

i bought a gyp and a puppy about a month and a half ago. the gyp was showed a few pigs, and put in the pen a few times, but never really hunted. she is a little over three years old and she has been used as a brood gyp the last two years, well just about all the pups that she has thrown has been a jam up dogs. the video that im fixing to show is a puppy from her last litter, and the puppy came in the pen voluntarly. i had no intention on the puppy being in there, but i was very surprised at what i saw. the puppy was 12 weeks old at the time, and it was the first pig she had ever seen.
http://s622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/jeffeasttx/?action=view&current=0713091900-00.flv

[raider54]

i bought a gyp and a puppy about a month and a half ago. the gyp was showed a few pigs, and put in the pen a few times, but never really hunted. she is a little over three years old and she has been used as a brood gyp the last two years, well just about all the pups that she has thrown has been a jam up dogs. the video that im fixing to show is a puppy from her last litter, and the puppy came in the pen voluntarly. i had no intention on the puppy being in there, but i was very surprised at what i saw. the puppy was 12 weeks old at the time, and it was the first pig she had ever seen.
http://s622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/jeffeasttx/?action=view&current=0713091900-00.flv

I believe this to be an extreme exception and shoudnt be the rule when it comes to breeding

[sfboarbuster]

sfboarbuster, how far north are you headed?

I was thinking about heading up around gainesville

[dgdawsonBMCs]

I believe this to be an extreme exception and shoudnt be the rule when it comes to breeding


It just depends on the line and the genetics of that dog....The offspring she will produce will be all about the average of her genes, and not about her.  A dog is a bundle of genetic material and a good producer could be the worst dog in the litter, while the best dog wouldn't produce crap.  I wish it weren't true, but it is...

Now, where the problem lies is when you don't hunt these dogs for several generations and then you won't know what to breed (male or female).  However, if you take a good line of line bred dogs that are known for their hunting ability, you can hold back a couple of females for breeding and still produce great dogs....I don't do this, but some do and they produce good dogs...

I may not agree with doing this, but it can be done...You just have to know what you are doing...

[duece24]

i agree with dawson...many people are able to just breed some of their females because the line is very consistant. problem lies when people for too many generations breed without knowing what they are breeding. i personally won't suggest doing this but it is done and with a high level of consistancy. i would only do this if you KNOW your line and what it produces consistancy. i would also only do this if i had a female off of a dog and gyp and that breeding could NEVER be done again. i would still at least know that she would bay up a hog and even find a hog. i would hunt her AT LEAST a couple of times then i would put her up if i wanted to hold on to that blood.

[Noah]

I'm retiring my Shiner dog until I get a litter out of her.... if at all possible .... at the rate I'm going, I may have to put her back to work before she gets the stitches out...

But, she has proven 110% to me that she deserves a chance to reproduce.  I'll be keeping every one until I see what I have.  Once I know I have a couple replacements, she can go back to work.