Bottom

[hoghunter71409]

Well said Oconee- This is the way I see it.  If my dogs could talk I think they will tell you that all they want to do is catch game and it is a matter of life and death to them.  My dogs are hunting dogs and that is what I expect of out of them- hunt and a lot of it.  I can accept a lot of things: getting out run by a hog when my dogs are not in good shape, dogs getting on another hog besides the one I turned out on- but one thing I do not allow and one thing I can not accept is a dog just giving up.  If my dogs were MMA fighters, they wouldn't tap out- they would either get knocked out trying or pass out. 

I learned at a young age through sports to never give up.  I've lost at every sport and just about every other thing life can throw at me- but I've never given up on anything.  I look to my inner strength and God for determination.  My dogs are a reflection of me and they will not give up injured or not.

[KevinN]

  My Hero

[hoghunter71409]

Maybe I am missing something- you are the one that disagreed with me.

You are the one that said you would rather your dogs give up did you not??  This thread is about bottom and the man asked peoples opinion and I gave mine.

Anybody else want their dogs to give up?

Kevin if you have anything else to say directly to me or want to insult me - call me.

You comment on just about every post on here and if there is anybody running their mouth, it would be you.

[KevinN]

I'm not an internet hero....you'll never find me calling my dogs all stars or hear me putting down another Hunter or his dogs. I'm happy with my dogs because they produce for me. Are they perfect? Heck no...but I'm working on building something that suites me to a "T" and that may take a while.

As far as my dogs coming back to me because of a cut...it's never happened. I did FIND my bulldog cut down so bad he couldn't walk. He's recovered nicely and due to hit the woods in a couple weeks.

Sure...I post a lot...and they're  mostly helpful posts or just opinions....stated in a gentlemanly manner.

[KevinN]

But just to be clear....YES...in a life or death situation....I'd rather find my dog coming back to me with his guts hanging out then find him a mile later...DEAD...with his guts hanging out.

[oconee]

Every time you open that brass snap its a life or death situation!!!!

[Judge peel]

That is a fact

[Reuben]

bottom is the ability to stick...and heart is the determination to get the job done...but they all mean the same more or less...one thing when breeding three or 4 generations of top dogs we want to protect what has cost lots of time and money to produce...so when the dogs get turned out one has to wonder if one will be crippled or killed...there is a fine line between not having enough grit to stop a bad hog or too much that the dog might not live very long...I want the dogs to have the bottom to get the job done and the sooner the better but I want them to be smart about it...smart meaning knowing when to catch and at the same time protecting themselves...

I had pretty gritty dogs with lots of bottom...but to catch more hogs in thick brushy conditions I needed dogs with even more grit and I was thinking a quarter of pit and breed less of it but to capture what was needed...I love all the bottom that is needed to get the job done but I wanted to not have to be testing it for hours when we could catch most within 15 minutes...but those kind of dogs probably will not live too long because heat exhaustion will get some of these dogs due to them not having enough sense to be content in keeping the hog stopped...all out catch equals a bigger chance to get the dog cut down or extreme heat exhaustion...that fine line between not enough grit and too much is pretty fine...

the bottom line...I want the bottom to get the job done...and one day to have the dogs that have the bottom to get the job done no matter how many hours... but dogs that can get the job done well enough that bottom won't have to be tested very often...
 

[hoghunter71409]

My dogs would rather me find them dead with their chin up and guts hanging out b/c they gave it their all and they have bottom versus making the long walk back to the truck with their guts out and chin down because they gave up!  Trust me, my dogs get beat by running hogs all the time, but they don't quit.  I don't like the fact that my dogs often kill small hogs but the fact is they do.  They do it because that's how they are bred.  They are running to catch game...not just bay it.

When I was in the Army we had the two Mile PT run.  I was able to run the 2 miles in less than 12:00.  I thought I was running hard.  My Platoon Sargent came up to me one day and said I was running hard enough.  I said I maxed my score, what do you mean Im not running hard enough.  The Sargent looked at me and said "if you were running as hard as you could, you would have crossed that finish line throwing up and falling over Sir".  That moment has stuck with me my entire life.  Just because your are running hard, doesn't mean you are running as hard as you can.  I use this mentality when judging bottom in a dog.  I want a dig that finished the race throwing up and falling over.....or what I am trying to say is I want a dog to gives it all.  And "all" means catching the hog or die trying...and don't give up no matter what.

Every 2 Mile PT run I made after that I thought to myself I could have run harder.  Although I never quit, I never gave it my all because I never fell over or finished throwing up.  I did manage to run a 10:52 2 Mile and set a personal best.

Everyone has a different meaning and interpretation of terms.  One thing that is not in my vocabulary is the word quit.

[Peachcreek]

Would like to here some of what y'all think bottom is why you like or diss like. Was out with my buddy texsteve85 the other night got on a few but missed them his dog gritt ran one for over 6 miles and 2 1/2 hrs now I have been on a lot of races that last few hrs and few miles but most of them ended with us getting the hog. I can say that gritt is the real deal dog he just lost him at the end but any way lets here what y'all think

The thing that sticks out to me is the dog was running less than three miles per hour

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[KevinN]

I was in C Co. 1st Bn. 75th Ranger Regiment.
10:52 is a good time...10:54 was my Best right before I went to Ranger School. Course that was almost 25 years  and about 80 lbs ago, lol.

Honestly...it's just different strokes for different folks I guess. I've sat here and typed and deleted, typed and deleted, trying to convey my thoughts into words but I can't so  I'll say is....I hope your very happy with your dogs and wish you the best of luck.

[txsteve85]

Would like to here some of what y'all think bottom is why you like or diss like. Was out with my buddy texsteve85 the other night got on a few but missed them his dog gritt ran one for over 6 miles and 2 1/2 hrs now I have been on a lot of races that last few hrs and few miles but most of them ended with us getting the hog. I can say that gritt is the real deal dog he just lost him at the end but any way lets here what y'all think

The thing that sticks out to me is the dog was running less than three miles per hour

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How was being bayed and breaking over and over .
If he wasnt 1.5m on another property we would have got that pig.

[T-Bob Parker]

Would like to here some of what y'all think bottom is why you like or diss like. Was out with my buddy texsteve85 the other night got on a few but missed them his dog gritt ran one for over 6 miles and 2 1/2 hrs now I have been on a lot of races that last few hrs and few miles but most of them ended with us getting the hog. I can say that gritt is the real deal dog he just lost him at the end but any way lets here what y'all think

The thing that sticks out to me is the dog was running less than three miles per hour

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He may be talking about miles as the crow flys from opening chop to pick up point, if you select "start new hunt" and use total dog miles to judge a race distance it would more than likely be a different story.

I bet that's how y'all are keeping track of run miles as do I, mine probably don't have the bottom that yours and mikes do, but even I've seen a couple of 20-25 miles races that never get over 2 maybe 3 miles as the crow flys.

I will concede though, I personally think that while bottom is of the utmost importance, I bet if my dogs were applying more speed they wouldn't need quite as much bottom. Not knocking bottom in the least, just saying no animal can sprint as far as it can jog.

[txsteve85]

I like to have plenty of bottom but I know alot of guys that dont want it because they dont wanna trespass or stay out all night.

[Bo Pugh]

Would like to here some of what y'all think bottom is why you like or diss like. Was out with my buddy texsteve85 the other night got on a few but missed them his dog gritt ran one for over 6 miles and 2 1/2 hrs now I have been on a lot of races that last few hrs and few miles but most of them ended with us getting the hog. I can say that gritt is the real deal dog he just lost him at the end but any way lets here what y'all think

The thing that sticks out to me is the dog was running less than three miles per hour

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Must of been really really thick all up hill.
Bottom to me is how long a dog will run a hog before it gives up and I don't want them to give up until I cut them off or they have no more pads left of their feet that running 2 or 3 miles and turning around come back is a cull to me. If one of my cur dogs is cut up bad enough he can't go anymore I understand and glad I picked him up alive but one that gets a flesh wound better not be looking back. A bulldog better not give up until he takes his last breath. I don't expect a bulldog to run a 10 mile race but he better not realize he's done got in a jack and try to change his mind

[Judge peel]

How fast is a dog suppose to run if you have a Manual on how fast a dog should run when tracking and baying please post it and he was off the property for most of the time and we had two separate bays going on. Most terrain we hunt is thick so a sprint there not it took 45 min to bust 200 yards so the thing that sticks out to me is your assumption

[Peachcreek]

Gee the post said he ran one for 6 miles and 21/2 hrs. I didnt see where it said he bayed several times. Lol
As far as bottom goes i try to only feed dogs that have tons of it. I want the option of calling a dog off of a race and not wishing i had a dog that will run one. But thats just how i like a dog.

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[Peachcreek]

Tracking should be 6-8 mph in the thick stuff.
Baying should be 0 mph


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[Judge peel]

Correct me if I am wrong Steve but my GPS said 18 miles and I know gritt put down a few more than that

[Judge peel]

Do you hunt cheetahs or dogs lol