Cast type dogs genetics or trained

[sreeves]

In my opinion it doesn't matter if its a dog, horse, cow, or rooster. The animal needs to be genetically predisposed to perform the task that they will be burdened with if you expect consistent results. Naturally there are freaks that are able to do tasks at a high level that the breed or line may not be intended for. But if it can't reproduce its self consistently, it isn't worth much in the long run. You don't see cutting horse trainers shopping for colts in Kentucky LOL. Sure handling or training play a big part in this as well, but it's more important to stay out of the animals way as it is to get in it. Ive never been able to beg one to hunt, not gunna try it again either 

[Reuben]

In my opinion it doesn't matter if its a dog, horse, cow, or rooster. The animal needs to be genetically predisposed to perform the task that they will be burdened with if you expect consistent results. Naturally there are freaks that are able to do tasks at a high level that the breed or line may not be intended for. But if it can't reproduce its self consistently, it isn't worth much in the long run. You don't see cutting horse trainers shopping for colts in Kentucky LOL. Sure handling or training play a big part in this as well, but it's more important to stay out of the animals way as it is to get in it. Ive never been able to beg one to hunt, not gunna try it again either 

I agree...it is genetics...

Early starters are inspiring to me...put an 8 week old pitbull pup on a 10 pound pig and it catches the ear, well I know I can put this pup up for a while and I know it will catch again...a 3-month-old puppy that bays well in a controlled environment is exciting...and at 4 months I take that pup to the woods and it makes a a round...well I'll put my money on that pup and it will be getting preferred treatment from this day on...

Yes, I put my money on genetics but there needs to be a minimum time in the woods, and then there is proper handling...proper handling brings out the best from the dog so handling is important as well...

I like to say this as an example...the winningest greyhound racing handler is given a dozen basset hounds to train and race against the greyhounds due to his winning record...we all know that those bassets could never win a race no matter how good a handler...

just like a hunting dog that doesn't have the genetics to ever become a good hunting dog...you can take this dog to the woods 5 times a week and get the same results...a great hunting dog with the right genetics can get by with one hunt every 2 weeks and can lay up for months and will still perform when taken out...but just like anything else...the more they hunt with the right handling and this dog will perform and look good doing it...

[Judge peel]

You know I have done all that and seen all that and it still ain’t no reason or rhyme to it. One time it goes that way the next time it don’t I had them show out young then Peter out not show much at all bout to get culled and go lights out. So you never know to me all of that extra work is over kill pick thru give them a sporting chance to prove them self then slowly cut the lot down to the cream because your choice out of the gate more then likely will be different 18 months later. Only thing that I have learned that shows you what it is is time

[BA-IV]

It helps to get dogs predisposed to do what you want ahead of time based off how the parents and their grandparents hunt and so on. I went on a mission 15 years ago to find the best line of dogs I could get my hands on. I been all over the south, and the real ticket boils down to nothing more than woods time. Some of the best dogs I’ve ever seen go didn’t have a lick of breeding behind em but they stayed in the woods every day. Another hard lesson I learned was dogs get better and better the longer they been dead. Your best dogs will prolly be from someone right down the road, bred for your country. 

Judge you’re right though, I never pick the right pups, it’s like kids. Give em every chance and it still only goes so far. I’m no dog trainer, so every good dog I’ve ever owned, did it cuz I kept em in the woods and they were naturally smarter than me. All that said though, you will NOT go to a baypen and buy a pup off a world champ, and raise it and it naturally cast deep and get bayed. And it sure won’t produce that either. Genetics plays a huge role in what a dog will become, but woods time trumps it all. But if I had to have my choice, it’d be genetics paired with woods time, and you can breed em and get fairly consistent results.

[t-dog]

BA-IV, you said that you can look all over but the dogs you find that work best for you are probably just down the road. One of my old mentors gave me that same advice. He said if you want a dog that’s going do well where you hunt, get it from someone that hunts the same country and style as you plan to or from rougher country. I learned that he was exactly right.


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[NLAhunter]

Ben about hit the nail on the head I believe

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[TheRednose]

Everybody has their own opinions on it, so I will give mine. I have to start with I am a big believer in genetics, to me that is your base line starting point.

One of my first mentors who has now passed away used to tell me how good your dogs are breaks down to four factors; 1. Genetics: the starting point the way he put it is you can only get out of them what they have them  2. Hunter/Handlers: someone to lead/guide them, correct and keep them out of trouble, and put them in positions to succeed  3. Environment: places to hunt and game populations  4. Hunting time: Woods time, repetitions they get.

So in my opinion to have dogs you can really rate as top shelf or top notch you need a good amount of all of those factors though you can still be successful with less but I always remember there are levels to everything we do.

[Reuben]

Everybody has their own opinions on it, so I will give mine. I have to start with I am a big believer in genetics, to me that is your base line starting point.

One of my first mentors who has now passed away used to tell me how good your dogs are breaks down to four factors; 1. Genetics: the starting point the way he put it is you can only get out of them what they have them  2. Hunter/Handlers: someone to lead/guide them, correct and keep them out of trouble, and put them in positions to succeed  3. Environment: places to hunt and game populations  4. Hunting time: Woods time, repetitions they get.

So in my opinion to have dogs you can really rate as top shelf or top notch you need a good amount of all of those factors though you can still be successful with less but I always remember there are levels to everything we do.

You hit the nail on the head…a dog with the right genetics and proper handling does not need to be hunted as much to perform with consistency at a high level but it does need to be hunted enough…

[Reuben]

The best dogs I've raised taught me that…some just naturally knew where to find and naturally knew how to find the hottest end of the tracks quickly…its like they are born knowing these things…these dogs will make better dog men out of us if we are willing to pay attention and learn from them...

[make-em-squeel]

Well said imo

In my opinion it doesn't matter if its a dog, horse, cow, or rooster. The animal needs to be genetically predisposed to perform the task that they will be burdened with if you expect consistent results. Naturally there are freaks that are able to do tasks at a high level that the breed or line may not be intended for. But if it can't reproduce its self consistently, it isn't worth much in the long run. You don't see cutting horse trainers shopping for colts in Kentucky LOL. Sure handling or training play a big part in this as well, but it's more important to stay out of the animals way as it is to get in it. Ive never been able to beg one to hunt, not gunna try it again either 

I agree...it is genetics...

Early starters are inspiring to me...put an 8 week old pitbull pup on a 10 pound pig and it catches the ear, well I know I can put this pup up for a while and I know it will catch again...a 3-month-old puppy that bays well in a controlled environment is exciting...and at 4 months I take that pup to the woods and it makes a a round...well I'll put my money on that pup and it will be getting preferred treatment from this day on...

Yes, I put my money on genetics but there needs to be a minimum time in the woods, and then there is proper handling...proper handling brings out the best from the dog so handling is important as well...

I like to say this as an example...the winningest greyhound racing handler is given a dozen basset hounds to train and race against the greyhounds due to his winning record...we all know that those bassets could never win a race no matter how good a handler...

just like a hunting dog that doesn't have the genetics to ever become a good hunting dog...you can take this dog to the woods 5 times a week and get the same results...a great hunting dog with the right genetics can get by with one hunt every 2 weeks and can lay up for months and will still perform when taken out...but just like anything else...the more they hunt with the right handling and this dog will perform and look good doing it...

[make-em-squeel]

agreed

Everybody has their own opinions on it, so I will give mine. I have to start with I am a big believer in genetics, to me that is your base line starting point.

One of my first mentors who has now passed away used to tell me how good your dogs are breaks down to four factors; 1. Genetics: the starting point the way he put it is you can only get out of them what they have them  2. Hunter/Handlers: someone to lead/guide them, correct and keep them out of trouble, and put them in positions to succeed  3. Environment: places to hunt and game populations  4. Hunting time: Woods time, repetitions they get.

So in my opinion to have dogs you can really rate as top shelf or top notch you need a good amount of all of those factors though you can still be successful with less but I always remember there are levels to everything we do.

[Reuben]

It is a combination of both…but the great dogs are born…so genetics is the most important ingredient to have…i gave a 10 week old pup to my brother to make a blood trailing deer dog…long story short he gave him back to me at 2 years old because he didn't do anything with him…i got him back and put him in the bay pen once and he looked like a real hog dog…first time in the woods it was a split bay and he took his own hog about a half mile and swam the Brazos river after the hog…we drive about 15 miles to get him back…luckily someone had him and asked if he was a Plott…I said he was 7/8 Mtn cur…second time out he split bayed again and he had his own hog a mile from where they struck…he fit right in…

Another 8 week old pup I had given to a kid who started trapping hogs…the pup was 8-10 months old when they trapped the first pig…the pup bayed it and next time he went to check the trap the pup went into the woods chasing pigs…he had to leave him overnight because he couldn’t catch the pup on account it got dark and the woods was really thick…

Great dogs will look good in any company…we do the right things at the right time and we will bring out the best from them…it is all about the dogs…I don’t waste much time selecting a pup…either they have it or they don’t…
If you have a real trashy pup giving you fits and I will take that pup off your hands…I don’t call it trashy I call it gamey…

[t-dog]

Well obviously I agree with pretty much everything y’all have said. It’s just my opinion though that y’all are all chasing the wrong thing if you want to leave the woods satisfied that your breeding was successful. Follow my lead because I’ve about got it down to perfect. I’m not gonna charge y’all for this secret because we’re all part of the Bull$hi++er family, very large family. The secret is sorry dogs. There ya go I let it out. If you hunt sorry dogs they will never let ya down. Every time you go to the woods you are gonna get the same result. They are consistently and naturally gonna be sorry and it doesn’t matter if you hunt them once a year or every day, they’re sorry. You can cast them in a pig pen or in the desert, they are gonna produce the same quantity of hogs. They don’t eat any more than the good dogs do either. You aren’t out nearly as much money because you don’t have to have a buggy to chase around behind them although they really do enjoy riding. You don’t need a tracking system because they are always visible. They’re purt near as good as a seeing eye dog, they aren’t smart enough to keep you or themselves from getting ran over, but they’ll keep you from getting lost. Hot nose, cold nose, who knows? Don’t matter because they don’t need a nose. They don’t need speed because they are stealthy. There’s no attitude problems because they all just want to get along. You can name them simple names like Peace, Love, and Joy. Vet bills, what vet bills? They never get hurt unless maybe they hang a nail, but you can usually take care of that yourself at home. You will never pick the wrong puppy to keep out of a litter either because your litters will be producing 100% every single time. If by accident you get one that forgets how he/she is bred and decides to be good or great, you’ll probably have to grit your teeth and do a hard cull. You can’t put up with that or it will screw your whole breeding process up. Another benefit is the breed you select. It doesn’t matter if you select the slowest basset hound to match against the fastest greyhound because performance, well it just doesn’t matter much. You can just find the collie dog that can’t circle up a sleeping floc, a few plodding plotts, or walkers that can’t run, you’re going to have a short cut to your goal. Consistency is the key guys. I’ve got a pile of these dogs here the house that have been genetically engineered for years that I would probably part with for oh, I don’t know, maybe $3000 a pup, but if it’s for one of y’all family members I’ll take just the $1500 I have in each one. I guarantee them to be sorry on level y’all  didn’t know was possible, and those aren’t just the genetic freaks, it’s the norm of the line. They may not be for you purists out there. You can’t get this kind of sorry without mixing and matching to create the ultimate dog. Give a call if y’all are in a bind and need some help selecting your brood stock. Yeah y’all just don’t understand until you have it how much less stressful it is to know what you’re gonna get and how your dogs are gonna do every time!


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[WayOutWest]

Dang, what did you put in your coffee this morning. Lol