another catchy versus bay dog thread

[buddylee]

Sorry to bring this topic up again but I have been doing some thinking after loosing a hog yesterday and picking my dog up 1.8 miles away without a pig. Been thinking of switching to catchy pack cause it seems really hard to ride the fine line between not catchy enough and too catchy with grabbing a hog from behind and backing up to bay once it spins around being ideal. Was talking with a friend earlier and he figured 1 in 10 dogs from good lines will do this. Seems like you get 2 types, one that won't grab from behind and one that is really rough but not catchy and pushes the hog.
     First time I ever went hog huntin was with an older man who ran 4 or 5 pits loose at one time. Mostly hot nosed dogs but he caught hogs and didn't have the long, long chases. I am thinking of breeding a line bred bird/bull to a pit to produce dogs that ideally will range out 2-3 hundred yards and catch on sight. To heck with long races and broken bays. I realize they won't have the nose of a hound or cur but hopefully they will be able to find a hog that is in the area now and not 5 hours ago. I realize I will have buy more staples but thats the game we play.
     For those of you with true bay dogs, how many dogs you reckon you have gone through to get the dog that will do its best to spin a hog around then bay ? For those of you running bay dogs, what percentage of hogs do you catch that your dogs get onto ? How often to you have a long race ? Seems like its a lot to ask to get the bay dog I just mentioned but that can also follow a hog for miles of neccesary.
     For those of you with catchy dogs, I ask the same questions other than spinning a hog...
     Please don't turn this into a whose better arguement, only facts, I realize running catchy dogs will lead to more injuries.
                                                      thanks

[sfboarbuster]

I was thinking about going that route a while back but just coulnt do it.

There is nothing liike a good bay.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

buddylee, at on time I had a line breed family of big, fast cross bred dogs that were basically running catch dogs. They got cut to pieces all the time and were mean. I culled the whole line and concentrated on breeding better straight bay dogs, style and speed and line breeding have given me what I am looking for. But I added some Dogo's that I could send from long range if a hog was going to keep breaking.

[airduster29]

i run the weatherfords ben blood and have for over 12 years not very many hogs have gotten away once the first bark sounds i have both bay and catch in my pack ive been fairlly lucky i guess cause my dogs dont get cut to often but my dogs stop hogs from running by grbbing the nose or gettin in front of the hog then bay if still dont stop they will catch my males are always rougher of course and usually when two males are there it is a caught hog just my experiances

[Noah]

Rough and catchy's real productive as long as you don't plan on making friends with your dogs... it's easy to say "it's the game we play" until you loose a good one...

I hear it every day... "it's a fine line what we look for"... but there are dogs out there that can do it safely... I owned one.... may not ever again... but it can be done.

1 in 20 sounds about right as far as a bay dog that can shut a hog down somewhat safely.... even from proven lines...  worth waiting for in my opinion...

[BigAinaBuilt]

Buddylee! I run what I would consider a rough baying pack! (Figure that out)   They will get rough on a runners a$$ but also if the hog is just sitting there I can bet on my Bull/Whippet is gonna wanna go in and get her an ear and once she goes so will the rest of the crew! If I run with friends packs and leave her home then we can get a good bay going and they will hold the pig there or if the pig runs the dogs will grab some rear and go back to baying. Now with that said, I have been outrun and burnt the last month more times then I have ever been with my old pack and I ran my old pack for 10 years! It is all a learning experience for me as I have never tried to breed my own line of dogs and am just getting into that niche to try and get a steady product produced. Good luck!

[buddylee]

any one care to answer my questions about percentage of hogs you have lost with bay dogs versus those running catchy dogs ?  BIG sorta answered. The guys I know that run rough dogs catch a higher percentage of hogs. I usually catch 8 out 10 when the dogs work together but I want a higher percentage.

[BigAinaBuilt]

BuddyLee, I think your percentages will vary depending on the hogs that you hit and the dog that hits it. Heres a pic of my pack today if you're interested in checkin it out. I base both of my packs around speed and grit but believe this pack is just younger and still figuring things out so I hope to get a better % of hogs stopped soon.

[cajunl]

I don't think it is a question of which is better. I have had both. I think it is still a better dog question. A good rough dog will catch more than a not so good bay dog and vice versa.


In my experience if the rough dogs don't catch it right away and it runs they wont catch it. With more than one rough dog it is hard to keep them together.

The baydogs seem to have a nose to stay longer with the runners. If that is what you want.

[T.Burdine]

Well i have some insite on this topic i have a pack right now that is a mix of cur and hound i have been on 5 hunts since deer season closed and i have bayed every time i went to the woods BUT the dogs i am running can not shut there running hogs that i have on my lease so they just bust and run and run.  it kills me i have dogs that can find a hog in the middle of the city but they just can shut them down.  my best bay dog got killed last month on the first hunt of the year never seen the hog but he cut everything that i had on the ground and killed her and she was the heart of my pack she could find and bay a 250+ hog by herself until the other dogs got there she didnt have the best nose but she would shut them down...so inturn on the gitty to loose i would rather have dogs that will catch a hog than bay 5 foot out if it comes down to it if you have a dog that you know is going to catch no matter what vest it, i would rather spend the money on vests for gritty dogs and bring home hogs every time i got to the woods than have dogs that wont put there mouths on the hog to shut them down!!!! that is just my opion.

[airduster29]

i dont really have the baying type but i catch prob 90% of the hog i get on and i still have dogs that will range several miles to get the job done
I think that todays hogs are hunted so much they have learned to run and have been getting use to getting away from us that way that if thats what you are trying to do is put hogs down than some gritt is a must

[BigAinaBuilt]

Could you elaborate for us Airduster29?? What kind of terrain are you hunting and if you're dogs aren't baying are they catching 2 miles out and you're responding while they hold??

[ktchemwcurs]

buddylee, it is all in what a man wants, kinda like trucks, its just what you prefer. I do know one thing, you will catch more hogs with a rougher dog but he sure dont last long. I guess the good Lord blessed me with just some good dogs that will bay up and if he wants to run, they put there mouths on him until he stops and then they bay again. You can always tell a running hog when you get to the bay with my dogs because won't be much hind quarter left.   Also what I have found out is let one dog strike and bay, then get close before you turn to him. I have found that a hog will most likely sit there and fight one dog, but if you run a bunch on the ground and three or four dogs get there, he is going to haul $ss. Thats just an opinion.

[makenbeans]

I run 1 BMC Ben line and hes ruff.
Hes medium range, but will go after a runner.
I hunt private land with my dog and im the only one doggin them, occasionally we come across barrs that remember their last in- counter with a dog and all they wanna do is fight.
My dog has produced plenty of hogs, but I also tend to hunt him in the less congested areas were he has the advantage on stopin the hog from runnin.
If I cast him in the thick palmettos the hogs have the advantage on out runnin him on the first bark.
Also small pigs in the thick can send your dog runnin in circles and wearing the dog out.
Just my experiences with my opinions.

[TexasHogDogs]

I have had both Loose and Ruff.   The loose we would run big hogs all day long and most the time not get a hog I hate that bad.  Then I went to ruff dogs with some sense and the number of hogs went threw the roof  but I was getting dogs cut so I put vest on all my bay dogs and still got dogs cut .  Yes the vest sure does help but a lucky shot now and then will happen.  So then I decided I would try the looser type dogs again and left the ruff dogs at home and let me tell ya here goes the hogs again long chases lots of hogs never getting caught hog count bottoms out  .  The big boars would just run forever and like to have killed us running behind them.  Had a buddy come down with some of his great loose dogs  just to see if mine were that sorry are the hogs were that bad and he left with a different opinion than what he came with hogs ran all day long .  Maybe it is the difference in were some hunt I don't know but something is sure not right when some say they can catch hogs all day long with loose dogs and then when you see it with your on eyes the story is different! So I went back to my ruff dogs and will not leave again the vest sure do help but like I said a lucky shot here and there will get ya of course that is hog hunting thats just the way it is like it are leave it you just can't change it know what I mean .  Sooner are later you are going to loose a dog either way you go .

[make-em-squeel]

As for me, muleman, hog stalker, hoghunterdfw. I can speak of with 100% certainity. And I believe daisydog, raider54, and digemdown fall into this category as well but i am not 100% for sure of that.

We dont have real catchy or overly gritty dogs, they have the right amount of gritt to stop runners but we are not getting into the staples very often on average hunts wk in and wk out. they stop a hog and keep em bayed for as long as it takes us to get the bulldogs there and generally will catch anything under 200lbs before the bulldogs arrive. They are what i call hog smart, and runners wont have much of a hind quater long.

We dog some of the most worn out spots around where hogs have been dogged for generations and are extreme runners, we loose very few, as in maby 1 or 2 out of 10....sometimes less when we role the same dogs regularly and dont change up the team every wkend. So it is possibble to do it without putting pit in the blood line or having real catchy dogs from what i have seen wk in and wk out over the past year that i have got away from gritt.

[airduster29]

yes sometimes my dogs are caught couple miles away from me its simi brushy with mesquite and rough sand hills here but as in the earlier post i posted i have both bay and catch so usually have one or two dogs baying while others are in and out catching /baying
thank goodness for tracking systems

[BigAinaBuilt]

Sounds like fun! Do you think the grittier dogs in you pack are breaking the bay pushing it out to miles??

[airduster29]

no they keep them much shorter hogs here run forever cause of the lack of thick brush  and from being hunted alot so i belive it helps me not to many run a long ways but a few  i run two dogs as rig dogs they are gritty but would rather bay so usually wait till they strike then add doggs to the race when i can

[BigAinaBuilt]

Yellow dogs! Nice hog also! In my old pack I had a Shepherd/Lab that would only "grab" on command and other then that she would just stand out a few yards and bark the pig even when the Bulls I ran her with would be pinning she would just stand there and bark. She was the only dog I've ever had like that the rest fo my dogs have always jumped in once another dog got gritty. I really do miss her, I had to put her down a few months back after her hips went whacked and she was running sideways when she could run! She was 10 and tracked and stopped many a hog for me! Good luck on your next hunt Airduster29!