Dog Owners, Please read, Action needed NOW 5-7-09

[Txmason]

HB 3180 was voted on in a late night meeting with out a hearing, this is how law makers move things through and never advise us.
Every one needs to be aware of this and contact their repersentives, instructions on TDHA board.
This is a start to the end of hunting with dogs.

http://thenewtdha.com/smf1.5/index.php?topic=711.0

[Pecos21]

HB 3180 was voted on in a late night meeting with out a hearing, this is how law makers move things through and never advise us.
Every one needs to be aware of this and contact their repersentives, instructions on TDHA board.
This is a start to the end of hunting with dogs.

http://thenewtdha.com/smf1.5/index.php?topic=711.0

I just read the whole bill and the House Committee report analysis, and I found nothing that could point a finger to hunting with dogs Doug. It is for commercial breeders only....it even states:

Many retail and Internet pet sellers acquire their animals from commercial breeding facilities, who also sell directly to the public through newspaper and Internet ads. These facilities are sometimes false fronts for puppy or kitten mills. These mills do not provide adequate and humane care for the animals they are breeding, often failing to keep animals properly sheltered or to provide adequate veterinary attention and sometimes committing females to dangerous pregnancy cycles. Currently, limited regulations exist requiring these facilities to provide a minimum standard of care for the animals.

C.S.H.B. 3180 requires the licensing and regulation of commercial dog and cat breeders and dealers. The bill is not intended to impact hobby breeders and does not prohibit or hinder a commercial breeding facility or the sale of dogs and cats. Additionally, the bill establishes a committee to advise the Texas Commission of Licensing and Regulation on the adoption of rules and administrative and enforcement policies relating to commercial dog and cat breeders and dealers.



This bill albiet decietful (if done without a hearing) has no real impact on us as hog hunters. I would say that 95% of us are not commercial breeders. This bill is intended for "puppy mills" that are there so folks can sell to pet shops and First Monday (and no I AM NOT saying that everyone that sells dogs at First Monday have "puppy mills"). If nothing else I think it might help us in the long run.....get some pressure off the dog community for a while. Because "puppy mills" are often in our neighborhoods which brings investigators to our area, which has them snooping around us.

But I think before we as Dog Hunters jump up and start screaming about every bill we need to read the bill and they are all available online. And become informed so we don't look like a bunch of "backwoods ignorant people".

Doug if I am wrong I apologize but there was nothing in there when I read it that points to dog hunting. Just people that don't take proper care of their animals. Which is probably why you weren't contacted by the named breed association, because this affects their revenue. The more puppies that are born, the more regitries they have, the more revenue they get.


Pecos

[Pecos21]

The link to the site where you can read the bill and the analysis by the House is as follows:

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HB3180

[Txmason]

Just informing that when they take a step up the ladder, our step is somewhere.
If they can pass this bill with out a hearing what can they do next.
All bills aren't all good or bad but the thought of a committee sitting in a room passing bills with out a public hearing is how we loose our right.
The plan has been put in place to do away with dog hunting in the future, WATCH.

I don't have a lot of years left but some of you will see dog hunting gone unless we strand for what's right.

[Pecos21]

Just informing that when they take a step up the ladder, our step is somewhere.
If they can pass this bill with out a hearing what can they do next.
All bills aren't all good or bad but the thought of a committee sitting in a room passing bills with out a public hearing is how we loose our right.
The plan has been put in place to do away with dog hunting in the future, WATCH.

I don't have a lot of years left but some of you will see dog hunting gone unless we strand for what's right.

Yes Sir I understand and agree with that point 100%. But if we as dog hunters jump up and down and pitch a fit for things that 1.) don't relate to us 2.) things are are really not ethical (and I do believe "puppy mills" are not ethical) we will start to lose our influence (our punch, if you will) I think. I have been dog hunting personally for 25 years and went with my dad hog hunting with dogs down in Florida when I was old enough to walk (I just sat in the truck when they went to the bay...but I was in the truck during the race...and it is something I haven't forgotten to this day). So to see dog hunting diminish would crush me. But I think we need to pick our battles and unite with a strong front when we do go into a battle.

I am not disputing anything you have said Doug and I really appreciate everything you do with the T.D.H.A. and I appreciate the resurrection of that organization. I was one of the early members, and when I seen it going downhill i was kind of disgusted. But my hunting buddy Maverick told me y'all came in and revamped it I was excited about it. I am planning on becoming a member soon and I am glad to see someone is keeping an eye out for bad legislation. I just think we as a body of dog hunters need to pick the times we hammer our State Rep's so we don't lose our impact.

Pecos

[slimpickins]

Guys, this is just 1 bill, but just like a single penny, ain't worth too much, BUT...........
If we do not stop these types of bills from being passed, all of the sudden that penny has turned into a nickel, then a dime, then a quarter........
I think everyone gets where I was going with that.

I sent 11 emails, in opposition to HB 3180, in less than 5 MINUTES.
I will be faxing all 11 of them as well.
It does not take too much of your time to stand up and help protect our rights as dog hunter's.
Join TDHA and be a voice, be heard, some people want to take away my rights, and I ain't giving them up without a fight.
Send the emails and faxes and letters.

[muleman]

I also do not agree with puppy mills. I have experienced these places first hand. My fear with this bill is that controlling "comercial" breeders is not the ultimate goal. This is a huge step towards controling breeding period. The other down side to this bill is that everyone that has more than 11 dogs will be under the microscope. this will give officials probable cause to check you out.

This is similar to the tethering bill that recently passed. The goal for that bill was not to do away with tethering (yet) it was to give officials the right to "investigate" all tethered animals to be sure they are in compliance. I sat at a convention and listened to one of the big wigs at HSUS crow about this bill and what a victory it was. He gauranteed that the next step was to modify the bill to forbid tethering all together. Same thing with this "puppy mill bill". the ultimate goal is to regulate breeding all together. the time is coming when you will not be able to breed any dogs without a permit.

[Dexter]

FYI
 also folks post it on a bulletin post  on myspace  and those like that  to get info out to the masses of our type of people
   and if yall get more than one e-mail from  me that means your on my dog people list
         Dexter

[uglydog]

How many dogs does it require to be considered a commercial breeder?

Last time before modified it said more than 11 intact females?

I am not a commercial breeder either , but I do own more than 11 hunting females, I am not spaying my dogs until I know which ones are going to be worthy of breeding, and that takes a couple of years to determine.

SO why can the goverment tell me what I can and can't own. I am a hog hunter not a breeder and if this affects the way I keep my dogs then I am not the only one.

Is this country going to be a communist country? will I be required to get permits to breed my dogs? Is it up to the goverment to decide if I ahould breed this dog to that dog? What liberties are you willing to give up, because it does not direct you directly on this particular day?


Here is e-mail I got from Responsible Pet Owners group

TEXAS ACTION ALERT: HB3180 BREEDER BILL MANEUVERS BY SENATOR WHITMIRE‏
From:  saova_louisiana-texas-bounces@mailman.montana.com on behalf of Sportsmen's and Animal Owners' Voting Alliance (SAOVA) (saova_louisiana-texas@mailman.montana.com)  
Sent: Fri 5/08/09 7:14 AM
To:  saova_Louisiana-Texas@mailman.montana.com

From RPOA Texas Outreach and Responsible Pet Owners Alliance

 

PLEASE CROSS POST WIDELY  
 
May 7, 2009  Action Alert! Big news on the Texas so-called "Puppymill" Bill today.
 
HSUS and Texas Humane Legislation Network pulled a fast one late last night with the aid of Senator John Whitmire (D-Houston).
 
Senator Whitmire amended another bill HB 2310 (a sunset bill for the Texas Department of Licensing) to include the misnamed "Puppymill" Bill. Rules were suspended and the bill PASSED the Senate floor late last night with a voice vote and no public hearings held. Don't ask us how a House bill passed in the Senate. It just did.
 
As of this moment HB 3180 is still in the House Local and Consent Calendar Committee and has NOT gone to the House Floor for a vote. We can still kill this bill and can't reveal all that is happening right now. It's not over until the fat lady sings.
 
What you can do:
 
Contact your personal representatives in both houses to ask how this can happen and protest. They can be found on the state's web site in a search box on the state's home page: www.capitol.state.tx.us .
 
Contact all Local and Consent Calendars Committee members below and tell them:
 
1. DO NOT SET HB 3180 FOR A FLOOR VOTE.
 
2. The legislature has violated our trust in the legislative process by suspending all rules yesterday in the Senate to amend and PASS the Whitmire bill CSHB 2310 on the Senate floor with no public hearings.
 
3. Your committee is chaired by the bill's author Rep. Senfronia Thompson which would seem to be a conflict of interest.
 
4. This bill is fundamentally flawed and cannot be fixed with amendments.
 
We'll have the substitute bills on our website later today or early tomorrow:
www.rpoatexasoutreach.org
 
We hope you're as angry as we are and will pull out all stops to contact legislators. All legislators have a web page at www.capitol.state.tx.us where you can email all of them if you have the time - almost 200 legislators! AKC has put out an action alert without contacting us which has good information but they left out the Local and Consent Calendar Committee where the bill is still pending.
 
Please fax, phone and email (all three!) to all members of the Local and Consent Calendar Committee below REPEATEDLY UNTIL WE SAY STOP:
 
Chairman: Rep Senfronia Thompson (D)

Ph: (512) 463-0720
Fax: (512) 463-6306
Email: senfronia.thompson@...
 
Vice-Chair: Rep Byron Cook
Ph: (512) 463-0730
Fax: (512) 463-2506
Email: byron.cook@...
 
Rep Rafael Anchia
Ph: (512) 463-0746
Fax: (512) 473-0738
Email: rafael.anchia@...
 
Rep Dwayne Bohac
Ph: (512) 463-0727
Fax: (512) 463-0681
Email: dwayne.bohac@...
 
Rep Valinda Bolton
Ph: (512) 463-0652
Fax: (512) 463-0565
Email: valinda.bolton@...
 
Rep Roland Gutierrez
Ph: (512) 463-0452
Fax: (512) 463-1447
Email: roland.gutierrez@...
 
Rep Jodie Laubenberg
Ph: (512) 463-0186
Fax: (512) 463-5896
Email: jodie.laubenberg@...
 
Rep Trey Martinez Fischer
Ph: (512) 463-0616
Fax: (512) 463-4873
Email: trey.martinez.fischer@...
 
Rep Tommy Merritt
Ph: (512) 463-0750
Fax: (512) 463-9085
Email: tommy.merritt@...
 
Rep Geanie Morrison
Ph: (512) 463-0456
Fax: (512) 476-3933
Email: geanie.morrison@...
 
Rep Rob Orr
Ph: (512) 463-0538
Fax: (512) 463-0897
Email: rob.orr@...
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
RPOA Texas Outreach (501C4 Nonprofit)
www.rpoatexasoutreach.org
Responsible Pet Owners Alliance (501C3 Nonprofit)
www.responsiblepetowners.org
 

[Pecos21]

How many dogs does it require to be considered a commercial breeder?

Last time before modified it said more than 11 intact females?

I am not a commercial breeder either , but I do own more than 11 hunting females, I am not spaying my dogs until I know which ones are going to be worthy of breeding, and that takes a couple of years to determine.

"The bill prohibits a breeder from possessing more than 50 adult intact female animals in a facility at any time."

[Dexter]

BTT

[Dexter]

btt

[Texas_Cur]

Just informing that when they take a step up the ladder, our step is somewhere.
If they can pass this bill with out a hearing what can they do next.
All bills aren't all good or bad but the thought of a committee sitting in a room passing bills with out a public hearing is how we loose our right.
The plan has been put in place to do away with dog hunting in the future, WATCH.

I don't have a lot of years left but some of you will see dog hunting gone unless we strand for what's right.

Yes Sir I understand and agree with that point 100%. But if we as dog hunters jump up and down and pitch a fit for things that 1.) don't relate to us 2.) things are are really not ethical (and I do believe "puppy mills" are not ethical) we will start to lose our influence (our punch, if you will) I think. I have been dog hunting personally for 25 years and went with my dad hog hunting with dogs down in Florida when I was old enough to walk (I just sat in the truck when they went to the bay...but I was in the truck during the race...and it is something I haven't forgotten to this day). So to see dog hunting diminish would crush me. But I think we need to pick our battles and unite with a strong front when we do go into a battle.


Pecos

It makes no difference whether or not it directly mentions dog hunting.  It does pertain to dog ownership.  This bill is something that we as dog hunters need to stomp into the dirt to prevent legislation in the future from affecting us.  It is called "slippery slope".  If bills like this and others are passed with little opposition then when it comes time to defend dog hunting the momentum against us will be too strong.

[Pecos21]

Just informing that when they take a step up the ladder, our step is somewhere.
If they can pass this bill with out a hearing what can they do next.
All bills aren't all good or bad but the thought of a committee sitting in a room passing bills with out a public hearing is how we loose our right.
The plan has been put in place to do away with dog hunting in the future, WATCH.

I don't have a lot of years left but some of you will see dog hunting gone unless we strand for what's right.

Yes Sir I understand and agree with that point 100%. But if we as dog hunters jump up and down and pitch a fit for things that 1.) don't relate to us 2.) things are are really not ethical (and I do believe "puppy mills" are not ethical) we will start to lose our influence (our punch, if you will) I think. I have been dog hunting personally for 25 years and went with my dad hog hunting with dogs down in Florida when I was old enough to walk (I just sat in the truck when they went to the bay...but I was in the truck during the race...and it is something I haven't forgotten to this day). So to see dog hunting diminish would crush me. But I think we need to pick our battles and unite with a strong front when we do go into a battle.


Pecos

It makes no difference whether or not it directly mentions dog hunting.  It does pertain to dog ownership.  This bill is something that we as dog hunters need to stomp into the dirt to prevent legislation in the future from affecting us.  It is called "slippery slope".  If bills like this and others are passed with little opposition then when it comes time to defend dog hunting the momentum against us will be too strong.

No sir it does not pertain to dog ownership. The bill pertains to mass production of puppies for a profit, for "puppy mills", if you will actually read it in it's full text! It states in the text that it doesn't apply to individual dog owners, but no one seems to want to read the bill. No dog hunter should have a need for 50 intact females for breeding..........that is ridiculous........there is really no need for a hunter to need 20 intact females for breeding. What are you going to do with all of the puppies anyway?!?!  And i know it is your "right" to own as many dogs as you want.  But we as tax payers have to pay for the euthanization of these animals when they end up on the streets because someone dumped their dog off on a country road or street because it wouldn't hunt. Or when those dogs become feral and start killing people's livestock then that is getting into someone's livelyhood. So now your "right" to have as many dogs as you want starts cutting into someone's pocket!!!! I see it all the time bud here in First Monday County (Van Zandt County)............  You have to exercize common sense at some point as an animal owner.  And owning that many intact females is not using common sense.

My other point is...... if we as dog hunters go in and start pitching a fit about something like this we will lose our credability with our representitves and legislators. Thus making our punch less effective. You need to inform yourself and read it for yourself and not go off what someone else has told you. So when you get your opportunity to speak you will not be standing there saying "well ol so and so told me it said this" you will look like a fool!!!!!!  So pick your battles wisely, and make sure you are choosing an ethical battle.......and make sure you are educated about the battle before you give the command to attack. Because in the real world Rambo doesn't win battles in Austin.........you have to use your mind to win battles in Austin........ 

I will not comment any further on this thread. I have spoken what I believe is sound advice, and I stand behind my statement 100%..........Thanks

[Dexter]

BTT

[Txmason]

Notice,
I respect most all comments that are posted by members of this board, some support Texas Dog Hunters Assoc. and some don't.

I try to inform every one as to what is going on in the law making but some have a blind eye and think some things doesn't effect them so they don't do anything. 
Anything that HSUS supports is something that will effect dogs and hunting and they are building steps to cut it out.

Thanks for all your comments and I know if one of these bill that effects you gets passed someone will jump up and down and say "Why didn't you'll do something"

We're just carry the message. 

As most times hunters want stand together.
We have a better fight if we unite.

If you want information it'll be under the Courtroom board on www.tdha.org

[dabutcher]

i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  i think anything that goes against dog ownership or starts by just nipping a small piece of dogownership in the bud needs to have opposition.   it's alot easier for them to get an amendment to an exhisting bill than it is to pass a new bill.  so next thing you know that 50 intact adult females is knocked down to 20 females, thus lowering the number but also dropping the adult labeling (and we all know semantics is the name of politics).  what happens if you have 4 or 5 gyps that all the sudden drop pups, might not have been intentional breeding but they got bred none the less.  now all the sudden you've got 23 females on the ground.  it now directly effects you. 

i don't get how some people think it "weakens" our punch.  how do you think all these bills get introduced?  because the Squeaky wheel gets the grease, animal rights organizations are whining and complaining on capital hill everyday.  do you think it weakens their punch??  No, they start to think well maybe this is what the people want.  if you only go on the offensive when it's something that effects you DIRECTLY, it's gonna be too late.  PERIOD.

[Maver!ck]

Can anyone (besides Pecos) that has read this bill in its entirety tell me what is wrong with it?
I have read the whole thing and it only refers to 'commercial' breeders, which it is basically setting standards for anyone who 'wants' to be a commercial breeder and what rules you would follow if you did apply.  If you decided that you wanted to carry the title of a 'licensed commercial breeder' then you would follow these guidelines and rules set forth by this bill.  The bill protects anyone who purchases a dog/cat from a 'licensed commercial breeder' and protects the 'licensed commercial breeder' from purchasers who would take advantage of them.   This has NOTHING to do with anyone who does not want to or apply for a commercial breeder's license.
In fact, this bill is very ethical and should be supported by anyone who buys or potentially would buy from a commercial breeder and anyone that opts to become one.
To my knowledge from reading the bill myself, this bill will in no way affect ANY dog owner unless, said dog owner decides OF HIS OWN FREE WILL,  to become a 'licensed commercial breeder'

thanks in advance,
Maver!ck

[dabutcher]

(6)  "Commercial breeder" means a person who possesses 11 or more adult intact female animals and is engaged in the business of breeding animals for direct or indirect sale or for exchange in return for consideration.

(13)  "Hobby breeder" means a person who possesses fewer than 11 adult intact female animals and is engaged in the business of breeding animals for direct sale or for exchange in return for consideration.

Sec. 802.205.  LIMIT ON NUMBER OF INTACT ANIMALS.  A commercial breeder may not possess more than 50 intact adult animals at any time.

so..... explain to me where it says if you're licensed.  this bill states plainly what a commercial breeder is.  A PERSON THAT POSSESSES 11 OR MORE ADULT INTACT FEMALE ANIMALS AND IS ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS OF BREEDING ANIMALS FOR DIRECT OR INDIRECT SALE OR FOR EXCHANGE IN RETURN FOR CONSIDERATION.  if you have 11 intact females and have a litter of puppies and you sale some of them you are now officially engaged in the business of breeding animals for direct sale.  this bill would require you to be licensed if you engage in the above practice and have 11 intact females.  i know guys that hunt all females and have more than 11 dogs.  this would affect them DIRECTLY.   

do i have a problem with Sec. 802.205??  Yes i do have a problem with something that tries to limit anything.  there's already adequate animal protection law on the books that penalizes and punishes someone that doesn't take care of their animals.  if someone wants to own 100 dogs and takes care of all of them it's their business and no one elses.

[Maver!ck]

I'm going to lunch, will post again when i return, in the mean time you might want to read that again.. you are completely wrong on being 'required' to become a commercial breeder....