The Science of Stop

[Scott]

Any more science to be shared?

[jdt]

yeah , i'll share some with'ya .

if it is dropped out of a butthole , and looks like crap , and smells like crap ................    i'm not a scientist but  .............

[liefalwepon]

Hyan are your dogs as big as deans or more like 50-60 lbs?


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[l.h.cracker]

Hyan most of the videos I have watched on dogging Hawaii they are cur sized rough dogs and they run a lot of them on the ground at once like 6-8 or more.How many dog's do you and your family usually run at a time?

[UNDERDOG]

yeah , i'll share some with'ya .

if it is dropped out of a butthole , and looks like crap , and smells like crap ................    i'm not a scientist but  .............

Hahahahah 

[hyan]

Hyan most of the videos I have watched on dogging Hawaii they are cur sized rough dogs and they run a lot of them on the ground at once like 6-8 or more.How many dog's do you and your family usually run at a time?

We ran two they were not cur size the pic of the our first bitch she was the runt of the litter her brother was around 120 pounds n his back was about to my hip the most she weighted was 85 pounds n was a little above my mid thigh every one in my family also only ran two dogs my dad said if you can't catch a  pig with two dogs n them two dogs can't hold it till u get there you should shoot them but that goes for finder holders of course not cur type or sized dogs but we did have two dogs that came out the same size of curs but they had wippet in them so they were fast n they never let go of anything they got a hold of one was stolen n the second one got killed by a lahole but we always only ran two dogs it was also because our dogs were big and each would grab an ear sp there was really no where for another dog to grab unless we didn't want any meat to take home

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[hyan]

Hyan are your dogs as big as deans or more like 50-60 lbs?


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95-130 was the average size never really had any bigger then 130 that bitch is 12 years old now that's why she looks so small

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[hyan]

Hyan are your dogs as big as deans or more like 50-60 lbs?


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95-130 was the average size never really had any bigger then 130 that bitch is 12 years old now that's why she looks so small

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N the cat we breed her to was a freak from here in Texas that weighted 80-90

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[hyan]

I think my dogs are pretty successful, I think Bolens dogs are different from mine, but I believe they are quite successful, I think a lot of dogs that are completely different from mine are very successful, what I can't understand, is what is it about Australia that makes some Americans lose their damn minds and think there is no possible other way near as good as the way some foreigners showed them? Why can't "one out" guys ever admit that their "finder holders" are great for the environment they are used in, but it is also possible that there are other dogs, better for the environments they were created for?

I think my curs are better hog dogs than your finder holders, but that is only my opinion, it may or may not be accurate so what is the point of getting 4 pages worth of bent out of shape trying to prove the theoretical superiority of one or the other?  I garauntee that if we sight casted your dogs and mine to a sounder of hogs in an open field yours would be caught on a hog before mine got there, but what I can also say with some degree of certainty is at least a few of mine would leave your dog with the hog caught and go rally the sounder we just cut loose on so we could continue to catch the rest. Of course, they may leave the property line, so I guess that means mine must be inferior dogs... Lol

There not only running them types of dogs in au n it can also be said that Americans lose there mind when we say au dogs can work here also I there are guys in au that run bay dogs a guy I met actually runs Mr masons cats n breed them down there and they work there so if American bay dogs can work there why can au finder holders work here but I will say I had cat in my line n also shepherd so my dogs had speed n a dam good nose my uncle still has full shepherds he runs as finder holders

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[HairyHolder]

There's two kinds of finder/holders I have found. Ones that run pigs down and pull them to a stop, and ones that run a pig till it trips or slows up to navigate an obstacle and catches it then. Truth is most dogs cannot out run a pig and have to wait till it trips or gets caught up in the brush before they can catch it. Imo rough dogs or RCD's will not improve your chances of catching "runners" unless they can flat out smoke a pig down. I hear people say all the time they are switching to a all catch pack or all rough dogs because of the runners. If that pack is all dogo or cur bulldog cross ect, ect... they will still be disappointed because these dogs lack the raw speed needed to run down a pig that is already spooked and on the run. Sure these dogs will catch feeding and bedded pigs and make it look easy but will fall flat when the pig is already spooked by the dogs or if they hit and miss a hog. In finder/holders speed and nose kills. And I mean raw unadulterated flat out speed.

[joshg223]

There's two kinds of finder/holders I have found. Ones that run pigs down and pull them to a stop, and ones that run a pig till it trips or slows up to navigate an obstacle and catches it then. Truth is most dogs cannot out run a pig and have to wait till it trips or gets caught up in the brush before they can catch it. Imo rough dogs or RCD's will not improve your chances of catching "runners" unless they can flat out smoke a pig down. I hear people say all the time they are switching to a all catch pack or all rough dogs because of the runners. If that pack is all dogo or cur bulldog cross ect, ect... they will still be disappointed because these dogs lack the raw speed needed to run down a pig that is already spooked and on the run. Sure these dogs will catch feeding and bedded pigs and make it look easy but will fall flat when the pig is already spooked by the dogs or if they hit and miss a hog. In finder/holders speed and nose kills. And I mean raw unadulterated flat out speed.

I believe what people are referring to catching runners don't mean actually catching them in the act of running , they are wanting to catch them before all the running starts. Everybody has places that they hunt where as soon as the hogs see the dogs they take off to the races which is why some want the dog to catch it immediately instead of baying waiting for the catch dog to arrive.


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[Black Streak]

I often send my dogs to pigs feeding on the edge of feilds.       With my style of dogs I can tweak my style a number of ways for this catch.     Mostly I just send them from across the feild.   That's 1 fence to cross, the length or width of the feild to cover, another fence to negotiate while I'm persuit, run the pig down in the brush often times having crossed a steep creek etc.    Then hold till I arrive to take possession of the pig.         
        If the pigs are in the middle or on the side I'm on, I'll be tying pigs in the feild.          If a dog can't run down a fast pig in the open, the dog has zero chance of running the same pig down in the brush and catching it all things being equal.         If the dog is only slightly faster than pigs  in the open and the race is stretched out do to the dogs lack of real speed, then the pig will be either caught much farther in the brush or won't  be caught at all, unless the pig makes a mistake.           We all know pigs like to turn and face the dogs once they get in the brush, these are not the pigs I'm speaking of.    The pig that never checks up once it hits the brush is the ones I'm speaking of.   Any cd can get a good chance at catching a pig if it checks up once it hits the brush.            Many people don't have the ability to hunt their dogs in open stuff.      Take the jungle and hills of where Hyan is from In Hawaii.       They have developed dogs to run pigs down and catch them in the brush should the pig be able to flick the dog once found.   These dogs (2) are holding for how long?   A long time as opposed to what most of us are used to.       They aren't gonna be doing this with 25 pound terriers most people here think it takes to get through thick brush.           
   The logic that goes along with the little dog theory that it takes to keep up with pigs in the brush and are doing what big dogs can't is one of the most flaud thought processes I've come across.     Can they do it, yeah they do it all the time.    Big dogs do too, big dogs of this caliber and kind are just foreign to most doggers of this forum.    So is strickly hunting with catch dogs yet it's done by  a growing number of people in the US and is the dominant style in Australia.    Same stuff there as here.    Brush, heat, blackberry thickets, hills, crop feilds etc.    It's done the same there as it is here and they have dogs that do it all same as here.   Wind, rig, cast, sight hunt, crop work, working blackberry thickets etc.      Just a different style dog than what most are used to here on the forum but common In certain circles here or cultures or other countries.
   

[Black Streak]

Injuries on these kinda dogs?       Typically far fewer than lead in cd's.        Much longer holds with far fewer injury.        I'm not talk if no about the guys that half hearted have dogs of this nature or but the true finder holder bred dogs getting to hunt like true finder holders.           If your getting frequent injuries, something is wrong with the type of dog your running or something your doing is the weak link.   

[hyan]

Injuries on these kinda dogs?       Typically far fewer than lead in cd's.        Much longer holds with far fewer injury.        I'm not talk if no about the guys that half hearted have dogs of this nature or but the true finder holder bred dogs getting to hunt like true finder holders.           If your getting frequent injuries, something is wrong with the type of dog your running or something your doing is the weak link.   

My dogs didn't really get hurt also when they had a pig in the mountains when j got there they would be standing the same direction as the pig so there body would be next to the body of the pig not the head(holding ear) it was in the open when they would get cut cus they had space to more so they would hold on the ear but be standing in front the pig

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[Judge peel]

In my experience dogs that get cut more then average would be a dog that is fighting the hog not catching. This will cause other dogs to get cut. Now you ain't going to stop all cuts but you can knock it down by knowing the dog and good cut gear. 


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[decker]

Hyan and everyone else that runs these kind of dogs, there's been times it's been over a hour before I could get to a bay, I get nervous and I have loose dogs. I could just imagine if I had something caught that long. I'm completely ignorant to these kind of dogs, so I'm not talking down on them or anything. Just curious if that ever happened?

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[hyan]

Hyan and everyone else that runs these kind of dogs, there's been times it's been over a hour before I could get to a bay, I get nervous and I have loose dogs. I could just imagine if I had something caught that long. I'm completely ignorant to these kind of dogs, so I'm not talking down on them or anything. Just curious if that ever happened?

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I have had them hold longer then that it's all mountains in hawaii so some times they stop a pig in a gulch and you stand at the top of of a 150 ft cliff trying to figure out how the hell they got down there so u follow it till u find a spot to get down them have to walk back to where the dogs are some time it can take 2 even 3 hours to get to some pigs that by the time u get there the pig is half dead n the dogs are still there just holding it depends on your line breeding the type of dog is important my dogs were started at 4 months old so if by 1 year or so they couldn't keep up they didn't make the cut the size of the dog also our dogs were big so when you have to big dogs on one pig it helps alot this is my little bro the pup behind him is only 4 months old this was her 4th pig of the month and she was trying to hold with the other dogs we also exercise our dogs as a pack every day they would run a 8 mile back road be hind the truck that was going 10 mph so they were really fit when my dad first started the line he would hunt the dogs every day after work in the sugar fields on his way home

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[hyan]

two pups at 4 months one grab dog gun just in case

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[hyan]

My sister and cousin with a nice boar look in the background and you can see how thick that stuff is and this was in one of the more open spots

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[Judge peel]

I can vouch for the terrain there. I been up and down those mnt more then I care to remember. Spent many a trip to PTA makooa valley over the top kollie kollie pass top of the world Kahoo koos and on the last lepercy colonialism. I known my spellings ain't right lol. If you can hunt and hick there this stuff here is fairly easy except briars don't think I remember any there


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